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Ok guys I need some help here deciding which to run with here, both units are really awesome with white lions have the edge with the lion cloak 2+ against nonmagical shooting attacks. Sword Masters are pretty cool too with the razor standard they can be pretty deadly. I plan to run which ever with a unit of phoenix guard as the another special option. So I need some feedback from y'all on which is better? I am trying to make a competitive High Elf list and could use a lot of help here.

Also interested. Recently picked up the army. Having fielded neither, I'd give a defensive edge to the Lions and an offensive edge to the Swordmasters. Worth noting - unless I miss my mark, putting a High Magic mage in with Swordmasters and getting a few spells off can get their Deflect Shots to equal a White Lion armor save.

I was thinking the same thing too, using them as a mage bunker and throwing a bsb in there with them. So standard bearer with BOTWD with a bsb with say razor standard or which ever would be pretty rough to deal with. A unit of 30 with 10 wide 3 deep would give 60 attacks with ASF at str 5 (not including characters or champion there).

The trick is, S6 is actually a pretty useful thing. T4 is wounded on a 2+, and 1+ armor is reduced to 4+ (5+ with Razor Standard).

In general, Swordmasters chew up lighter stuff faster, White Lion smash the heavier stuff better.

Could go both ways. I'd playtest them and see which one works better for you before slapping down the money for the models.

True enough, though I love all of the High Elf models ...... Shut up and take my money GW lol

 GreenWarMachine wrote:
I was thinking the same thing too, using them as a mage bunker and throwing a bsb in there with them. So standard bearer with BOTWD with a bsb with say razor standard or which ever would be pretty rough to deal with. A unit of 30 with 10 wide 3 deep would give 60 attacks with ASF at str 5 (not including characters or champion there).

Remember that infantry only make a single supporting attack, so it's actually 40 attacks. 40 attacks at WS6/S5 and I5 granted, but your paying a premium for multiple attacks that are mostly going to waste. This is generally why when going for the horde option in a High Elf army that White Lions are the better option, on top of the fact that they are more durable to shooting and magic missiles. They also have less need for the Razor Banner due to being S6, so you can focus on protecting your BSB if he is hiding in the unit. Not to mention they are also stubborn.

White lions are the go-to horde unit, whilst Swordmasters operate more cost effectively in smaller numbers when used as flankers and chaff removal.

A few things:

- White Lions are S6 and have cloaks

- Swordmasters have A2 and Deflect Shots.

Right there, they're pretty even. But then White Lions have Stubborn, and I think we have a clear overall winner.
Forest Strider is just stupid icing on the cake.

And, finally, you might as well know:

- a block of 40 White Lions with the Banner of the World Dragon is a very common sight in High Elf armies. Against some lists, they basically just have MR5. Against, say, Skaven, they've got a 2+ Ward save versus anything that is actually a threat. Against Daemons, they have a 2+ Ward against the whole army.
That banner is easily the single most broken thing in the game.

But I agree with the above: White Lions for big blocks, Swordmasters for small ones.

This generally depends on whether you want a main-line combat unit or a small flanking "chaff" clearer. 10 Swordmasters will smash chaff aside and can be devastating in the flank against almost anything. However, they aren't as well suited to being a primary combat unit as White Lions are for a few reasons that Warpsolution touches on.

White Lions have a 3+ armour save against non-magical shooting which makes a huge difference against Dwarves, Empire, etc. They also have Forest Strider and thus the usual "plop a Venom Thicket down" trick from Wood Elves won't work on them. The way Martial Prowess and supporting attacks work actually favours White Lions - they lose out on what amounts to an extra rank of attacks as only the Swordmasters in the front rank get the two attacks each. From there, White Lions have Strength 6 which tends to be the killer number on units for destroying armoured monstrous cavalry.

Being Stubborn is good for Elves with their very high Leadership, especially on a unit that dishes damage out in ridiculous amounts. The trick to remember is that the Banner of the World Dragon provides a 2+ ward save against anything magical, while the White Lions have a 3+ armour save against non-magical shooting. Pretty much, the unit is going to get into combat with few casualties except against Organ Guns lacking runes and Irondrakes.

Generally speaking Swordmasters are a fine unit, but White Lions beat them out every time as a block. I'm basically just repeating Warpsolution but I think this point really should be stressed; Swordmasters are a flanking unit, preferably something like 10 models that can charge in the flank, possibly deny rank bonuses and butcher ten or so models in the process. White Lions are there to bust armour and just be a massive pain to deal with at range, their Strength 6 making them the better overall combat unit against stuff like Warriors of Chaos and Demigryph Knights.

Thank you all for the input. I have 20 sword masters already from isle of blood sets (I bought two). So I will have to proxy sometime for white lions to try in a game.