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https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/heavygearblitz/heavy-gear-blitz-war-for-terra-nova-starter-set

What type of plastic do you plan on using?

We are still investigating the many options available to us and want to make sure the models retain the basic shape they are cast in. So we believe that one of the harder type plastics will be the best choice.

And this is why they won't be getting any of my money...

But...it's one of them harder types.

If you want to know why pledging is not a good idea, look at this thread.
I'll also point out that DP9 the company might have 20 years, but the current team does not. Pretty much everyone left around 2003, and the current team has less than 5 years with the company.
The new rules writer has no previous experience in game design (or design, as far as I know), so beware if you want to actually play the game, especially if you care about game balance.

 cincydooley wrote:
But...it's one of them harder types.

Harder compared to what? Is it going to be harder compared to restic or harder compared to pudding...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
This one also made me giggle...

Finally there is a chance that we cannot provide a model that has been included in the kickstarter due to problems with the molding process or simply not enough interest in that figure as an add on sale. If that is the case then we will provide backers with the opportunity to use some credit to choose from the other models produced. Adjustments to model designs always have to be made to meet casting requirements but we have an excellent team in place to address and adjust to the challenges we face. On the other hand if there is an opportunity to add an additional model, or parts for customization, we will certainly be doing so!

So they are going to unlock models as addons but they are only going to produce the model if enough people buy the addon....

10,800 Canadian with 91 Backers.

Also, they have opened up a Feedback thread in the official DP9 forums.

The reason for their stipulation about the add on figures is probably due to the fact that quite a few fans were looking for Peace River and NuCoal models.

However, the plan is for this Kickstarter to be successful so they can focus on the Starter set, then expand from the Northern and Southern leagues into the rest of the line. There are over 300 models to consider in this, it would be difficult for a company, no matter how experienced, to change their entire product line over to plastic.

If they can succeed in this Kickstarter though, there is nothing stopping them from starting a second separate Kickstarter for the fans of Peace River and NuCoal.

Edit: The reason for the Stretch goal for Caprice is likely thanks to the weight of those miniatures in white metal. The faction was liked because it was different, but the price for it shipping made the white metal Caprician Mounts expensive. If they can hit the Stretch goals to change them over to plastic they will be far cheaper to ship and less costly for the consumer.

.... and hours after the fact, for a KS project talked about by the Pod since late Spring/early Summer that originally involved a book of the ruleset revamp worked on since 2012, the three (3) whole threads posted about it on the world-wide-web since going live are not by the company itself.

Not to mention that instead of six weeks to two or three months the entire drive is now only four (4) weeks, during the time of the year when folks are busiest & tapped out with everything other than gaming.
It seems they aren't too awful interested in actually reaching those stretch goals, are they.

BrandonKF wrote:
Also, they have opened up a Feedback thread in the official DP9 forums.

There isn't anything wrong with folks talking it over in neutral sites they already frequent, even if the company can't be bothered to promote or answer for themselves.

 Smilodon_UP wrote:
When you, I, or anyone is talking something up to interest another party there is a distinct line between promotion and lying.
There has been far too much of the latter in the past and present, which costs players as surely as anything the company has done, and worse, also lost anyone else those initial players might have gotten to share their interest.

People hate being lied to, even if they themselves lie, but they hate just as much being made fools of for spending hard-earned $$$ only to find out that reality is not what was promoted.

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As far as a company going around and promoting itself on forums like this one, when has that been the normal thing to do?

They wanted to do a Kickstarter for a color rulebook, and they got overwhelming feedback that "We'd rather have plastic models." So they decided, "Hey, people probably want our models in plastic. Let's do that instead." And so far that seems to be working out pretty well.

Looks like it's a sure thing at this point - already 20k and it's the first 24h. Congrats to DP9, looks like they pulled it off.

 solkan wrote:
As far as a company going around and promoting itself on forums like this one, when has that been the normal thing to do?

If you check the Pod's username history, once upon a time (2009) they very, very briefly did just that, which to me seems like a pretty good idea on a site getting such a level of 24/7 web-traffic.

But the point I'm stressing here has nothing at all to do with "forums like this one," but rather industry news sites and suchlike being given information by the company making the miniatures.
The subsequent impression of Dream Pod 9, given off by the company not spreading the word after basically having half a year to plan, is that the powers that be don't care and can't be bothered by those kind of details.
Multiple people have pointed this issue out in every KS thread in any venue where they've occurred, not to mention for other products, and been ignored time and again.

Here this evening, nine (9+) hours after going live, there still has been virtually nothing by the company that comes up on a search of the entire world-wide-web.
Outside of Facebook, the Pod forums, and an almost midnight post on Cool Mini or Not, the very few other things have been by fans - mostly by one (1) person really.

The kicker of this lack of advertising for the company's Kickstarter (and previous products) is that the current president used to be the marketing director for DP9 before 2005.

David McLeod - 1:00 AM wrote:$23,000 in only eleven hours? I think we can do better than that.
Please remember to post in your local forum and ask your local retailer to pledge for a retailer reward level. We are posting everywhere but if you see somewhere we are not please send us an e-mail and we'll get a press release out there asap!

Which I think proves the point, and is a lie if you've done even one web search here today.
No retailer pledges as yet might be kind of telling as well, and I wonder if the Pod might have to run and deliver on a successful KS, maybe even two, to gain any kind of trust from store-fronts hesitant about stocking DP9 products.

So yeah, the Pod should reach the initial funding goal - imagine what that might have been like, or what the forums might be like, if the company wasn't so absolutely dependent on word of mouth advertising by the small handful of fervent supporters not yet burned by DP9 practices.

 solkan wrote:
They wanted to do a Kickstarter for a color rulebook, and they got overwhelming feedback that "We'd rather have plastic models." So they decided, "Hey, people probably want our models in plastic. Let's do that instead." And so far that seems to be working out pretty well.

Not, quite. Folks asked for a rulebook with plastic miniatures as possible stretch goals.

Other folks have commented in a far more articulate manner than myself about the extended store-front KS in the other thread, which is a valid point, and still doesn't solve the original problems of getting their rulebook published.
Just because the company is getting pledges today doesn't mean those mid to upper stretch goals are going to happen, and that is objective reality, not wishful thinking.

It also unfortunately allows TPTB at the Pod to linger on and do the exact same things that put the company into the dirt in the first place, which are problems that have continually gone unaddressed over the past decade.
Folks can dismiss that all they want, but it is true nonetheless, and pointing out that the company has such problems isn't bashing the game.

As I quoted in my previous post, saying otherwise and blaming those who speak anything in opposition is costing the game new or potentially returning players.

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In response to the question of which plastic will be used, Dream Pod 9 explained:

"We are still investigating the many options available to us and want to make sure the models retain the basic shape they are cast in. So we believe that one of the harder types of plastics like styrene will be the best choice."

Most folks ask about how big Heavy Gear is. I answered that briefly in a separate fan post, but this update picture shows the current Southern miniatures:



"Our 2nd Update has a photo taken of four painted up Southern miniatures, with a US Quarter and Penny for scale. These at the old pewter miniatures just painted up nice. Models and heights are as follows from left to right; Jager (29 mm tall), Black Mamba (35 mm tall), Spitting Cobra (42 mm tall) and Iguana (28 mm tall), these heights do not include the base which adds 3 mm."

Here also is a picture showing how the Black Mamba test 3-D render would be put together with the current layout.



In response to concerns about how the miniature will be put together if placed on a plastic sprue, Dave answered on the Feedback forum:

"There will be some issues with parts like the wheels but we have access to software that will let us do analysis of the 3D parts and determine what the correct angles are for placement in the molds for the best details or if that doesn't work where parts have to be broken down they will be. We are committed to finding the best balance of pose-ability, quality of detail, and ease of assembly. As you can see separating the legs from the hips immediately allows more options for posing in different ways. A quick cut with a jewelers saw to the back of a knee and the kneeling pose will be possible for players who want to add more extreme poses to their models. Even jumping with only a toe touching becomes possible with the lighter weight of plastic and some creative pinning into the base. Currently the Black Mamba has only three poses of it's legs, left, right, and straight. This will open up the possibilities quite a bit."

And they just hit $23,000.


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Now sitting at over $26,000.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And funded! $27,475. Time for that first Stretch Goal!

BrandonKF wrote:
In response to the question of which plastic will be used, Dream Pod 9 explained:

"We are still investigating the many options available to us and want to make sure the models retain the basic shape they are cast in. So we believe that one of the harder types of plastics like styrene will be the best choice."

When they originally launched the word Styrene wasn't included...

There isn't a snowballs chance given all the information were given that they will deliver on time or even close to it...

If they don't have a nailed down and a production slot spoken for most of the big name plastic producers are booked up well in advance.

Catyrpelius wrote:
When they originally launched the word Styrene wasn't included...

There isn't a snowballs chance given all the information were given that they will deliver on time or even close to it...

If they don't have a nailed down and a production slot spoken for most of the big name plastic producers are booked up well in advance.

If you have suggestions I am sure they would like to hear them on their Feedback thread or in Comments on the KS page.

This is a crowdfunding effort. That means we are putting the money to the company so that they can achieve their stated goal of transitioning to plastic. No more or less.

I don't have any experience in what different types of plastic are for modeling enthusiasts, but if you have questions they are open to them.

Please feel free to join in on the DP9 forums or on the KS.

Now that they are funded, it it's time to move on to the next Stretch goal.

BrandonKF wrote:

Catyrpelius wrote:
When they originally launched the word Styrene wasn't included...

There isn't a snowballs chance given all the information were given that they will deliver on time or even close to it...

If they don't have a nailed down and a production slot spoken for most of the big name plastic producers are booked up well in advance.

If you have suggestions I am sure they would like to hear them on their Feedback thread or in Comments on the KS page.

This is a crowdfunding effort. That means we are putting the money to the company so that they can achieve their stated goal of transitioning to plastic. No more or less.

I don't have any experience in what different types of plastic are for modeling enthusiasts, but if you have questions they are open to them.

Please feel free to join in on the DP9 forums or on the KS.

Now that they are funded, it it's time to move on to the next Stretch goal.

No thanks I like this forum... Plus from what I've read its more active then their own.

Crowdfunding doesn't mean that people should blindly throw money at a company that obviously isn't ready to use it.

Choice of plastic has alot more impact to the production process then just how hard the models are. Plastic choice is going to effect alot of things and really needs to be taken into account when the models are first sculpted. There are things you can get away with using one type of plastic that you can't get away with using another.

 Catyrpelius wrote:

No thanks I like this forum... Plus from what I've read its more active then their own.

Crowdfunding doesn't mean that people should blindly throw money at a company that obviously isn't ready to use it.

Choice of plastic has alot more impact to the production process then just how hard the models are. Plastic choice is going to effect alot of things and really needs to be taken into account when the models are first sculpted. There are things you can get away with using one type of plastic that you can't get away with using another.

You haven't visited the DP9 forums then. So I can say honestly that you don't realize that the fans are asking questions and making suggestions, and the company is listening.

No, crowdfunding isn't blindly throwing your money at the company. It is an investment in the future of the company and the community. This community wants to grow.

As I said, I am no expert with plastics. So I leave it to the company and its partners to handle that. I wouldn't be adverse to someone making suggestions however. And a couple members already have.

The company listens to the fans... That's arguable.
They'll "listen" to the folks that tell them what they want to hear, sure, then go around boasting how much they listen. If you say things they don't like, your posts will vanish quickly, and you will get threatening PMs.

Many members in the KS Feedback thread have asked pointed questions, including warboss here, and those questions have been answered. And suggestions have been taken into account. No threats have been made.

Edit: Also, the KS just passed 30,000.

Sadly there is no way to 'merge' threads here on Dakka Dakka.

As this one is 'worthy' of being in News and Rumors, a subforum with a LOT more traffic, please see that thread:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/620349.page

for the continuing discussion on this topic.

See you there!