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My wife and I are 40k players, who have also frequently played Warmahordes, and Malifaux. Needless to say we're familiar with miniature gaming at various levels of complexity and/or fiddly-ness.

I have only ever once taken a glance at the free Infinity complete rule-book (a couple of years ago), and by then was already confused as it seemed their were three or four .pdfs containing all manner of rules, campaign info, etc... spread between them. Taking a few moments with what I assumed to be the core rules, it seemed they were extremely complex, and in general it just struck me as a very, very rules-heavy book.

Now, I appreciate the irony of a 40k player commenting on elaborate rules, but I genuinely want to give Infinity a shot, and am just wondering how big of an ordeal it will be to learn, and moreso, to teach my wife.

I assume Operation Icestorm with its 3rd Edition book is where I begin? Is that 3rd Ed. book still available for free anywhere officially?

Any good "learn to play" video series?

Infinity is actually remarkably easy to play once you get used to playing. Yes there is a lot going on I'll give you that. But it really feels more realistic to me. The biggest concepts that can be hard to easily grasp coming from 40k are orders & ARO. The fact that models generate orders but (with certain exceptions) those orders can be spent on anyone in the army is very different the closest thing in gw is probably space hulk with command points.

ARO is very different. The long & short of that is you get half an order on each model that can see an enemy model taking actions in its order(s). That's where face to face rolls come in. That's simply just a stat test for the relevant action & whoever gets closest to their target #/higher wins & that action succeeds.

It's a big jump in complexity from 40k in that, on a per-model basis, there's a lot more to think about, like making sure you're keeping out of sight of dangerous units, using all your gear like mines/hacking stuff/special ammo ect, but mechanically, once you get used to the ideas of face-to-face rolls (somewhat similar to Malifaux's Opposed Duels) it's easy enough.

My suggestion would be either to et hold of an Icestorm introductory Rulebook, as that takes you through bit by bit and introduces new rules and models as you go along. Failing that, there is a Quick Start Rulebook PDF available from CB which does much the same (omitting some more complicated bits but without the Mission-by-mission style).

There isn't currently an N3 Download available as the book isn't out yet, but the current word is that the full thing will be availabe in January next year completely free (along with a full update to the awesome free Army Builder)

I think CB have some demo videos, if not Beasts of War have some that, while a little older, still get the basics across.

I say give it a shot with Icestorm if you can, everything in that box from the minis to the book to the fold-up terrain is absolutely awesome!

I'll just add that my fiancee easily picked up infinity after having played:

40k, X-Wing, Blood Bowl, & DOOM

The biggest thing to remember is simply that you can rarely act with full impunity/no risk & that in the tournament system, currently, cares more about successful completion of tasks/objectives rather than always killing all the enemy.

I ended up picking up the Operation Icestorm set. It just seems too value rich a proposition to pass by, and I am dying to paint some of these miniatures.

Do we know how different the 3rd Edition rules look to be, or would it be a good time to read the free 2nd Edition ones, while I wait for this to ship?

Wait for the third edition. There will be noticeable differences even though the overall game dynamic will be the same.

I read the 2nd edition rules awhile back and picked up icestorm and read those.
id recommend sticking to just the icestorm rules.

its cool that they introduce new things to you as you progress through the missions.

 Paradigm wrote:
It's a big jump in complexity from 40k in that, on a per-model basis, there's a lot more to think about, like making sure you're keeping out of sight of dangerous units, using all your gear like mines/hacking stuff/special ammo ect, but mechanically, once you get used to the ideas of face-to-face rolls (somewhat similar to Malifaux's Opposed Duels) it's easy enough.

My suggestion would be either to et hold of an Icestorm introductory Rulebook, as that takes you through bit by bit and introduces new rules and models as you go along. Failing that, there is a Quick Start Rulebook PDF available from CB which does much the same (omitting some more complicated bits but without the Mission-by-mission style).

There isn't currently an N3 Download available as the book isn't out yet, but the current word is that the full thing will be available in January next year completely free (along with a full update to the awesome free Army Builder)

I think CB have some demo videos, if not Beasts of War have some that, while a little older, still get the basics across.

I say give it a shot with Icestorm if you can, everything in that box from the minis to the book to the fold-up terrain is absolutely awesome!

Think this pretty much sums up what I would say!

The rules in Ice Storm I think are ideal for the new player - get the minis out, do some painting, start to play some games. You can have more than enough fun with just the rules in Icestorm. Then, by the time 3rd edition comes along you won't get overwhelmed by all of the rules at once, and can start thinking of the more specialised stuff like hacking, camo, air drops and the like.

Avoid the older books and PDFs before CB updated their writing style for 3rd edition.

Not sure if the quick start rules on their site now have been updated. But, its much easier to understand with their more technical writing style.

They also make significant changes to unify how various situations worked in thee rules such that it all ties back into AROs.

That said, while infinity is more complex, its not that much more complicated with the new version.

I echo the above, and that as a newbie.

Having read the 2nd edition for comprehension, closely followed by all the known and assumed 3rd edition changes, I think it best to keep your eyes forward on 3rd ed. alone. (Icestorm QSR notwithstanding.)

I can say I agree with all sentiments stated above. I actually only became interested in infinity about 3-4 months ago (possibly longer). I like everyone else interested downloaded a hundred pdfs, read them all. Was slightly lost (but with the benefit of a friend who is fluent in spanish) had spanish rules properly translated. Found out about Operation: Icestorm decided to not try to learn until third ed/ O:I came out. I've had the box in my hands less than 12 hours and have played thru two scenarios with the wifey! So far.. I love Love Love this game.. I also play some historicals in addition to 40k, warmahordes etc. I liked that some game mechanics are similar to Force on Force (opposed die rolls, action/reaction) which helped to quickly understand some concepts of the game.. but here I am rambling.. Beautiful miniatures, beautiful scenery, wonderful art, great background (from what I've read) and solid rules! I just don't see my poor Orks getting played with much any more..

I've been playing infinity about 2 mos because I simply don't want to wait till the full 3rd ed rules are released. I snagged a copy of the N3 QSR to complement my icestorm box & till the full N3 comes out I'm using N2 rules with N3 weapons profiles & the N3 unit profiles from icestorm for everything listed in that book including the suggested expansions. The only things we do differently are using the interventors' N2 BTS until CB explains the new hacking rules. It's worked pretty well thus far.

I appreciate all the info so far. I'm eagerly awaiting my copy of O:IS from Miniatures Market, so reading this, and casually watching a few bat-reps has been fun and helpful.

Incidentally, since working on it, I own a LOT of Deadzone terrain. How much should I plan on assembling for a good Infinity game?

What is the "standard" table size for 300pts (which i've heard is the "normal" tournament size). What are some guidelines on building a good table?

Finally, i've heard there are essentially no dud units and it is a game where I can safely buy models i'm dying to paint. Are there any broad rules for list-building though? Do I NEED a medic of some kind? A hacker? Etc...

Right now those werewolf looking fellows are calling to me. ;-)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So, does anyone have access to an O:IS QSR pdf? My Google-fu seems to be failing me.

I'd love to start reading right away, rather than wait for shipping.

A typical table is 4'x4' but the O:I set comes with a much smaller mat (like 32'x20" or so).

For terrain you'll need a pretty good amount out there. A model in the open is a dead model, period. Enough for good lanes of fire, but not too many, and lots of things to skulk behind. This isn't a " line em up and shoot" kinda game.

Some scenarios you'll need a hacker for (at least in 2nd ed.) and a medic can be handy but essentially " get what you want to paint then learn how to use what you've bought" seems to be the norm for I. Hackers are rumored to be a whole lot more useful in N3. We just have to waitron December to find out. Good news is, you're in the same boat with everybody else!

I have about 3 deadzone sets plus a bunch of crates & some random scifi junk I use for infinity. It feels about right with the 3 deadzone sets. I caution though, if using catwalks make them armored or they will become killing floors & never get used.

Although in Jan I'll be buying one of the Comanche barracks to add to the deadzone sets.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
I appreciate all the info so far. I'm eagerly awaiting my copy of O:IS from Miniatures Market, so reading this, and casually watching a few bat-reps has been fun and helpful.

Incidentally, since working on it, I own a LOT of Deadzone terrain. How much should I plan on assembling for a good Infinity game?

What is the "standard" table size for 300pts (which i've heard is the "normal" tournament size). What are some guidelines on building a good table?

Finally, i've heard there are essentially no dud units and it is a game where I can safely buy models i'm dying to paint. Are there any broad rules for list-building though? Do I NEED a medic of some kind? A hacker? Etc...

Right now those werewolf looking fellows are calling to me. ;-)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So, does anyone have access to an O:IS QSR pdf? My Google-fu seems to be failing me.

I'd love to start reading right away, rather than wait for shipping.

messgae me and I'll see what I can do to help you with that pdf

So, once more, thanks to everyone here, for all the kindness.

Another question, if I may...

When you buy Infinity models do they come with options? I know the game has "war-gear" IE, choosing what weapons a given model has... In this game, is WYSIWYG a thing...? Do I need to prepare to magnetize models?

As there are so many options, WYSIWYG isn't really a factor to be honest. Most minis don't have options with them, but for most things there's either a model, a reasonable excuse (Combi-rifles are so called because they can be refitted with Grenade Launchers or flamerthrowers without changing the outside appearance), or it can just be pointed out at the start of the game ('the female Fusilier with Combi is a hacker', for example).

Excellent. So if I care about WYSIWYG I can cherry pick appropriate models.

My wife will be pleased. When/if possible she likes playing female heavy factions in games. In Infinity it seems like almost every battle-field role for every faction has at least a few female models.

Yeah, there are models for most. Check out Shae-konnit's thread on here, he does box splits, so if you are just after one mini from a set he can usually sort that out.

 Paradigm wrote:
Combi-rifles are so called because they can be refitted with Grenade Launchers or flamerthrowers without changing the outside appearance

Combi rifles with LGL or FT do change their appearance, they're combi because they can shoot different types of ammo depending on distance/conditions, hence the +3 at short range and dual magazines on old PanO combis

 Pierzak wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:
Combi-rifles are so called because they can be refitted with Grenade Launchers or flamerthrowers without changing the outside appearance

Combi rifles with LGL or FT do change their appearance, they're combi because they can shoot different types of ammo depending on distance/conditions, hence the +3 at short range and dual magazines on old PanO combis

I was just going off this from the wiki:

Normal modern, Combi, and MULTI Rifles are equipped with a standard connectable module that allows them to set up the interior mechanism and the ammunition of a light shotgun, a light flamethrower or a light grenade launcher as a whole piece, without changing the outside appearance of the weapon or its weight.

Not saying you're wrong, just looking for if this has been changed.

the rules seem complex and intimidiating, but once you play a game you'll find that it flows much more smoothly and intuitively than 40k.

Don't think Napoleonic warfare, think spec-op kind of mentality.

Boldly charging up the center is a good way to get yourself killed.

Here's what you do; get a PS3, buy a copy of "Valkyria Chronicles ". Play the heck out of that game and you'll easily understand the core rules of Infinity such as orders and AROs etc.

 Musashi363 wrote:
Here's what you do; get a PS3, buy a copy of "Valkyria Chronicles ". Play the heck out of that game and you'll easily understand the core rules of Infinity such as orders and AROs etc.

Not a bad idea...

Plus Valkyria Chronicles is one heck of a great game too!

I LOVE Valkyria Chronicles.... that might be the best analog you could've made. I've heard others also say the modern versions of Xcom/UFO:Enemy Unknown also convey a very "Infinity" vibe.

Again, all this has been so appreciated. I've even discovered a local (well, 45-minutes out) game shop with a small, budding Infinity community.

Oh, I do have a quick question...

I am hearing a lot about "paint what you like, every unit is viable..." Can someone give me a general idea of what the Ariadne "Antipode" squad is like? Its the box with a female soldier and three, for lack of a better word, werewolves... Its what can most captured my attention and I think I would like to build a list around that if possible.

Although it doesn't have the playstyle similarity I stand by Deus Ex as the best way to put yourself inside the Infinity universe in a first person scenario.

Antipodes were genetically modified by the Tohaa as far as we know. Because of the genetic meddling they are an unusual balance of wild beast and social animal. They have communities and can make some basic tools and weapons. They have a strange type of blood which dries very hard, they use a plant which accelerates that process and cutting rituals to produce scab armour. They also have an unusual group intelligence thing going on which is why they come in packs of three. It takes those three to form a coherent brain.

They get super interesting when they come into contact with humans. Their saliva possesses a virus which can infect a foetus in a womb. So if they bite a pregnant woman then she will give birth to a hybrid which we call a Dog Warrior. They are the truest werewolf, they are bigger and more aggressive than most humans and can transform into a large humanoid wolf. Furthermore if that Dog Warrior mates with another human then the resulting offspring is another hybrid called a Wulver. Again these are big, viscous humans but their features are a lot more canine and they can't transform. If I remember correctly all known Wulvers are infertile so there the line ends.

But yeah, Scottish space werewolves in kilts. This is the best game ever.

So the "fluff" there sounds absolutely amazing... how about the mechanics? Are they fun? What kind of list do you build around them? How many points is the whole Controller + 3 Wolf Pack thing?

You don't really build lists around models so much. It's what you use that model/unit for in the overall list.

Antipodes are a nice, nasty unit. The controller has a light smoke grenade launcher. She can cover the advance of both herself and her pack, as well as other models in your list.

The 3 antipodes have the CH: Camo skill, which lets them start on the table as ONE camo marker. They can then move around sneakily to get into a position to cause maximum fun.

They have a high CC, which lets them usually get a hit in melee, and with 3 of them they will usually have the advantage.

They also have SuperJump, so they can get over any intervening terrain, or leap down from buildings onto worthy prey.

Their shining star skill is Sensor, however. Sensor lets them detect camo and Hidden deployment models within 8 inches without having LOS, and giving an ARO to any models they may detect. Also, this Sensor skill works against EVERY enemy model with camo or HD in the 8 inch radius.

I had always been turned off by the old models, but I will certainly be getting the new box to use with N3

Oh, points: 34 points for a controller and triad of Antipodes.

Check out the Army builder on the Infinity main site, or Aleph Toolbox here : http://anyplace.it/ia/ia.html
You can see all profiles and points for every model out, and have a link to the wiki from the Official army builder.

Wow... so, isn't that an obscenely good deal for the points? I mean, it provides four orders at 34pts if I am understanding rules correctly, right?