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For any game that I play, I enjoy reading tactics and strategy articles. I'm primarily a 40K player and I've been spoiled wih DakkaDakka and Youtube having 40K strategy discussions almost constantly. However, I'm finding it much more difficult to find articles about KoW. Google has not been much help, the Mantic Forums seemed barren, and youtube seems inundated with unboxing and modelling videos.

So I'm asking the KoW players of DakkaDakka, do you have any links to KoW strategy articles or any advice on KoW tactics and armybuilding you would like to share ?

Thank you in advance,
Adam

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Discovered some tactics articles on the ManticForums
Undead
Abyssal Dwarves
Kingdom of Men
Orcs

Without knowing what the new rules will be offering some of the advice we've been playing with might be a bit redundant.

However, I will say, 'There's no such thing as overkill'. In KoW a unit retains all its damage capability until it is destroyed, so it's important to do just that as soon as you can.

 .Mikes. wrote:
Without knowing what the new rules will be offering some of the advice we've been playing with might be a bit redundant.

KoW2 is at least 8 months off. I'm sure I could make use of any advice until then

 .Mikes. wrote:
However, I will say, 'There's no such thing as overkill'. In KoW a unit retains all its damage capability until it is destroyed, so it's important to do just that as soon as you can.

That is solid advice. KoW is a bit like D&D in that manner, where your better off concentrating on one foe until vanquished instead of spreading the damage all around.

A lot of the tactics won't change for 2nd ed. A couple of new ones opening up but not much changing.

1. Overkill. Overkill. Overkill. As .Mikes. says.

2. Always think about where your units will end up after a charge. Just because you can charge, doesn't mean you should. If your charge will leave you exposed to the enemies counter-attack for little gain then it's probably not worth doing (unless your unit will die next turn anyway or you need to tie your enemy up for a turn).

3. Overkill. Overkill. Overkill.

4. Cheap chaff units are useful for tying up enemy units and for screening yours. If your opponents units are faster than yours then it's extremely unlikely that you'll get first charge, but if you run some cheap screening units then they can absorb the first charge, rout and then the enemy is sat right in front of your counter-charge.

5. Units can't use ranged attacks, including spells, if they were charged in the previous turn (disrupted in 1st ed, disordered in 2nd). That war engine might be making a mess of your army, and the enemy might be protecting it against your heavy units. Except that lone, cheap hero on horse can charge it. Doesn't matter if the hero doesn't kill it, just charging it can shut it down. The same thing applies to magic users.

6. Use artefacts sparingly. They're all very expensive for what they give, but they are useful for giving your units a specific role.

7. Similarly, use unit command sparingly (in 1st ed anyway). It's often too expensive to put on everything - especially unit standard bearers. Musicians on a few key hard hitting units are useful, but not on every unit. The musician bonus is only applied once - even if there are multiple units in the same combat with one. Though Musician + Pipes of Terror do stack...

8. Overkill. Overkill. Overkill.

9. Dark surge is the bestest spell in the game. Period. If someone disagrees then they've not had it used against them properly. Don't dark surge to move things "at the double"; move your unit up to face a flank instead of charging the front, and then dark surge them in to the flank. Don't charge those Wraiths in the front of a unit, fly them over the top, pivot to face the rear using Nimble and then dark surge them into the rear of the unit for triple attacks.

10. Lastly, and probably most importantly, have inspiring cover for as much of your force as possible. Depending on my army I might have a few war engines outside of inspiring range, but everything else is within. While Inspiring does reduce the average nerve roll, the most important thing is stopping those lucky nerve rolls. "Oh my opponent needs a lucky 12 to break that unit, I'll be alrigh OH MY GOD YOU DID IT." Wouldn't it be great if you could force them to re-roll.

Daedleh, thank you very much for the input. Lots of useful information there.

So, Overkill, overkill, overkill is important enough to be the 1st, 3rd, and 8th rule of the land in KoW ?

 adamsouza wrote:
Daedleh, thank you very much for the input. Lots of useful information there.

So, Overkill, overkill, overkill is important enough to be the 1st, 3rd, and 8th rule of the land in KoW ?

Dear god yes. After successfully destroying a unit you can move forward d6, move backwards d3, or rotate in place. It's basically the only way you can protect a charging unit from someone flanking the hell out of them - be sure that charging unit is going to kill their enemy so they can either move through their battle lines (and their flank moves out of other enemy's LOS/charge arc), or turn to face the enemy that will be charging you next turn.

Ain't nothing like executing a perfect series of moves, mega charging some badass unit of knights or an Ogre regiment, and not causing enough damage and flubbing the Nerve roll. You can feel your frown descending on your face as that uber unit then returns the favor tenfold in the enemy's turn. Nothing is heavier than the weight of your own unit as you lift the whole thing off the table after being murderized by 18 CS 2 attacks from Twilight Kin knights who made their previous Nerve roll by 1.

Use fast units to provide flanking and rear support for the slower moving big blocks of infantry - try to hit enemy units on more than one facing.

Even dwarfs get to do that in KoW, thanks to Brocks - but while they hit hard, most cavalry won't stick around all that long for the points that they cost. So do damage with them while you can.

I am fond of the Castle and the Refused Flank - dwarfs can actually pull off both now - but Castle is a bit less effective in KoW; ranged attacks are just not as good as certain editions of The Other Game.

Castle is pretty much defensive - artillery on the top of a hill, ranged infantry on the sides of the hill, infantry at the base of the hill.
Maybe some cavalry on the flank(s). I tend to put any short range artillery (flame throwers and organ guns) on the sides of the hill with the missile troops - something to soften the enemy before they engage your front. (And any unit that gets hit by a couple of flamebelchers will get softened....)

Refused flank is having fast unit on one or both flanks - to fold in on the enemy flanks. A lot more offensive, but can be countered to a degree by enemies that allow you to come to them.

The Auld Grump

Thank you JudgeDoug and TheAuldGrump for your contributions to the discussion.

I'm working on reanimating my Undead model collection into a servicable KoW Undead Army to put all this knowledge to good use.

A general tip on playing KoW, but not necessarily a tactical tip is to call out your pre-measurements. Don't move your unit so it's just within its shooting range of an enemy unit, tell your opponent that the unit is now in its 24" range. Don't just move your unit up so that it's 11" away from the unit with a 10" charge range, tell your opponent (and get them to confirm) that it's 11" away.

Calling out measurements like this helps both players and tidies up any misunderstandings/arguments. There are very few disagreements over what is and isn't in range unless it's a unit you forgot to measure to/from.

It can make good tactical sense since it also forms a mental checklist for yourself to make sure that you are measuring to/from what you need to.

e: oh, it appears I somehow have two accounts...

Cool topic, some useful information.

I'll have to do some adjusting to KoW as I'm more used to whfb skaven tactics but there's no voluntary fallback in this game

So since we're on the subject of tactics/strategy advice (and as long as Adam doesn't mind), how good is cavalry in this game?

Lets say I wanted to run an undead cavalry list, how effective would it be and what are some good pointers/concepts I should watch out while playing them?

Definitely falls under tactics and strategy to me. I'd be interested in anything anyone has to say about Calvarys comparative strengths, weaknesses, etc..

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Unrelated, but useful for new players , from the KoW2 KS thread

 judgedoug wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Namely, can someone clarify some of the finese of charging in KoW? Its the sole area I feel like the rules don't do justice to, as things like "nudge an enemy unit so that you can be in base contact" doesn't feel very specific.

Likewise, if multiple units charge in, you "share" frontage with both units, but which one gets moved in order to fit both?

If the only way to physically fit your unit in base contact with your target involves pushing several other untis out of the way, do you? Do you just try to get as much base-to-base contact as possible?

One of the requirements is that " the unit has physically enough space to move into contact with the target. "

So if you would like to charge a target that you can see but there's things in front of it and the area between those things is say 60mm and you frontage is 100mm you won't be able to charge them.

.......... |target| ...|screen| 60mm |screen| ,.......|you 100mm|

You cannot charge Target because there's not enough room for You to fit between the two Screens. You'd have to charge a Screen (or not charge at all)

But if both of those Screens wish to charge You, they can:

"If two or more of your units are able to charge the same enemy unit, they can do so, as long as they can fit. Just issue a simultaneous order to all of the units that are charging the same target.
Once contact is made, any units that have charged the same facing of the target will have to share the space available as equally as possible, so shuffle them sideways as shown in Diagram E.
If there isn’t enough space for all of the units to fit against the facing of the target they are charging, some of the units will not charge and must be given a different order."

Since you can always premeasure in KoW, those Screens can premeasure their charge and make sure they can both fit against You without overlapping other units. If both could not fit (say there's a big rock on each side of You and slightly ahead), only one Screen could charge You.

 Rolt wrote:
So since we're on the subject of tactics/strategy advice (and as long as Adam doesn't mind), how good is cavalry in this game?

Lets say I wanted to run an undead cavalry list, how effective would it be and what are some good pointers/concepts I should watch out while playing them?

Cavalry are great. Undead cav are actually not as good as everyone else's when it comes to combat (worse melee) but are very survivable (cannot waver and must take more of a beating to be destroyed). Shambling units cannot move At The Double, so your cav army will be slow until they start charging. Of course, lots of Necromancers can hit them with Dark Surge during the shooting phase to accelerate their movement. It's a very viable army and overall is pretty tough as nails.

Thanks for the help Judgedoug, I posted a rough idea for a 1500pt list over on the Mantic forums, hopfully I'll get some more advice over there as well.

The rough list I made was:

If anyone here could give this a look over and offer some tips I's be very appreciative.

Undead is one of the armies I don't actually own, but at first glance seems pretty hard. Even a Rev troop will usually be fine against a standard 10 attack Me 4+ infantry unit charge (inflicting 2-3 damage, then requiring an 11 or 12 to break the Rev cav). Three sources of Dark Surge for 5 Shambling units seems reasonable, but your Rev King will most likely be in combat - and remember you can't shoot in a turn following participation in melee, so by turn 3 or so he won't be Dark Surging many people.

The biggest thing I need to keep straight in my head is that troop, regiment, and horde are not interchangable terms in KoW.

more from the KoW2 thread on screening and charging.

 judgedoug wrote:

 GrimDork wrote:
But if there was a single screening unit covering say half of the target, but you had enough range/ room to get around it, that works?

So something like this
.........|target| ..............|screen| ,.......|you 100mm|
after you charge would look like this
..........|target| ..|you 100mm|.|screen|


Since you need LOS to charge someone, then a better screen would be
.........|target| .........|screen| ,.......|you 100mm|
You can't even see Target, so your only charge option would be the Screen.

so, let's set up this situation with units.

You = heavy knight cavalry badasses
Screen = cheap troop of lameo infantry armed with flyswatters
Target = heavy elite infantry with great weapons and magic item giving +1 to hit or some other uber junk

easy tactics in this case might be

You are now in a position where, do you charge the Screen? You'll probably kill them, leaving you open to a countercharge next turn by Target elite uber dudes. Or do you not charge, and then next turn either
a) Screen charges you, or
b) Screen executes an Advance and turns 90 and walks out of the way of Target, then Target charges You.


See?

This brings us into other sweet sidestep tactics, such as
........|target| ..|screen|....|screen| ,.......|you 100mm|
Since You can't fit inbetween Screens to hit juicy Target, you either charge a Screen, leave them be, etc. But if you don't then your enemy can Sidestep a Screen on his turn (half move, strafing left or right), opening the gap so the he declares simultaneous charge with Target uber elites and the non-sidestepping Screen against You.
And if your opponent anticipates you charging a Screen, he can have his Screens positioned at slight 30-45 degree angles, so if you charge a Screen and don't defeat it, the other Screen can get a flank charge; or if you Charge a Screen and do defeat it, you'll use your free movement to rotate in place to make sure your frontage is facing the Screen and Target, but then You will get double charged next turn.

(IE, how to defend against and defeat an all-cav army)

Yeah that's good stuff! I keep thinking troops unlock things but that's wrong, rather they are the smallest size for most units.

Is there any information on the Abyssal play style?

I hear their whole list may be getting redone so I'm not sure if lasting advice for the list can be had at this point. I could be wrong, but I thought I had heard that in the kickstarter comments.

Yes, Abyssals are going to be redone from scratch.

Fair enough

 adamsouza wrote:

.........|target| ..............|screen| ,.......|you 100mm|
after you charge would look like this
..........|target| ..|you 100mm|.|screen|

My memory is a bit sketchy (and I'm at work so don't have th book in front of me), but I believe that exmaple will only work if your unit has its pivot unused.

Anyone with a firmer grasp feel free to correct me, but from what I remember a unit can only move, and by extension charge, directly forward and only has one pivot allowed pre movement (Nimble units excepted). So in order to make that charge the unit would have to pivot to the left first, and if it's already pivoted to reach that point it would only be able to charged the screening enemy.

Just read the chapter, the requirements are that your unit leader needs line of sight to the target, target needs to be within range, and there needs to be enough room to squeeze in.

The screen in the example is inefective because it allows a clear path to the target.

Yeah I think the way it works in KoW is that you can pivot past the screen and impact the enemy unit on the edge, and then the rules suggest you maximize frontage or something like that right? I think if you did the same maneuver in warhammer you'd be stuck with one or two guys from a side actually battling but in kings of war you throw down your whole unit's attacks if you make contact, and they could do the same next turn.

REDACTED

Another point, I'm pretty certain the rules state that a unit *must* have at least 1" between itself and and enemy unless they're in combat. So surely you need to be able to ohysically fit between the two screening units, plus 1" on each side?

Ummm, there seems to be some confusion here around charging.

You still move a charging unit ('Moving Chargers' - page 31/32 of the hardback) but there's no limit to how far the unit can move, only that it starts within twice its speed. While moving you have two pivots of up to 90 degrees.

You may not move through another unit, but you may approach within 1" of another unit (friend or foe).

 .Mikes. wrote:

My memory is a bit sketchy (and I'm at work so don't have th book in front of me), but I believe that exmaple will only work if your unit has its pivot unused.

You have two pivots during a Charge. You declare the Charge against a unit in LOS, you measure the ranges, and then you must move (using up to two pivots) to physically fit against the enemy for a charge (after which, you slide and align)
You are confusing movement modes. There's
Advance: move the unit's Speed in inches with one 90 degree pivot
At the Double: move double the unit's Speed in inches, no pivot
Halt!: do not move (required order for warmachines to fire)
Change Facing: pivot to face any direction
Sidestep: slide directly left or right half Speed
Back: move directly backwards half speed

Nimble allows an extra 90 degree pivot during any movement mode. Fly also grants Nimble.


CHARGING EXAMPLE.

Daedleh has it correct. charging is very loose, but there are still some requirements. Within charge range, within LOS at beginning of charge, must be able to physically fit, and must be able to complete the charge with two pivots.


.........|TARGET|........ ......................... ......................... .......fence..fence...... ......................... ......................... .........|.YOU!.|........

YOU can see TARGET through the gap in the FENCE. Check range - it's within charge range! Now you must actually move YOU. Pivot once to angle around the fence, move halfway there, pivot again to angle back to face the TARGET, move until your unit contacts TARGET (at an angle), and then YOU align flush against TARGET*.

(*note that if TARGET is an Individual, Individuals actually align against charging units.)