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Say a trillion orks think khorne has psykers and it becomes true, what would they do?

I have a reaccuring idea of having a khornate army lead by a huge captain that looks super scary, then buffs his unit with bloodthirst and they all roll 2 extra dice, and get +2 strength

Then beating a tzeentch army...

Or would they be shunned by khorne and turned into tzeentch slaves

Or, or, would they be killed for knowing magic.


Honestly very curious on what a khornate psyker would be, any thoughts?




On an unrelated note, if a million billion trillion orks believed the emperor lived, would he live again? Or does ork magic not work like that?

Love the use of "employed". Khorne would probably sent the 'Khorne' psykers on a one way trip to Terra.

Or used a a tool to open a warp gate so his hoards can enter a city etc.

Merely a tool to get them to battle.

It would be cool. Khorne having an aversion to magic because it's "unfair" or whatever else is pretty contradictory, sense it has no qualms about giving Chaotic boons to its champions.

Khorne psykers could be cool. Being able to buff themselves/their unit, pull enemies closer to them, set their weapons on fire, and having an enhanced capability to Deny the Witch.

Side note, though; a trillion Orks thinking it wouldn't make it happen. That's not how the Waaagh! works.

 Frozen Ocean wrote:
It would be cool. Khorne having an aversion to magic because it's "unfair" or whatever else is pretty contradictory, sense it has no qualms about giving Chaotic boons to its champions.

Khorne psykers could be cool. Being able to buff themselves/their unit, pull enemies closer to them, set their weapons on fire, and having an enhanced capability to Deny the Witch.

Side note, though; a trillion Orks thinking it wouldn't make it happen. That's not how the Waaagh! works.

Its not contradictory at all. In a duel, the Space Marine Captain and the Khorne Lord have equal chance to kill each other. Its a straight up contest on strength of arms and skill with a blade and fists. The Khorne Lord just happens to stronger and more skillful as a result of service to Khorne. But the Captain, if stronger, still has a fair chance to win. But if the Captain were fighting a lowly Hive Ganger, who just happened to be a Beta-level psyker. Well, the Space Marine should win on strength of arms, but against a psyker he doesn't even have the chance fight before atomisation.

In my personal head cannon I have the belief that Khorne does use psykers. In fact, weren't blood sacrifices and rituals the oldest form of magic? I play a sorceror in my army, but his backstory is that he is such a barbarian, and fights with much more bloodthirst and tenacity than anyone would expect of him, that Khorne smiles on him. Now, I only use him for Daemonology, so in my head, this guy brings so much destruction wherever he goes, that even Khorne himself feels his bloodlust increasing as a result of this sorceror being on the battle field, so he sends in a huge flood of daemons and revels in the spilled blood.

 Deadshot wrote:

 Frozen Ocean wrote:
It would be cool. Khorne having an aversion to magic because it's "unfair" or whatever else is pretty contradictory, sense it has no qualms about giving Chaotic boons to its champions.

Khorne psykers could be cool. Being able to buff themselves/their unit, pull enemies closer to them, set their weapons on fire, and having an enhanced capability to Deny the Witch.

Side note, though; a trillion Orks thinking it wouldn't make it happen. That's not how the Waaagh! works.

Its not contradictory at all. In a duel, the Space Marine Captain and the Khorne Lord have equal chance to kill each other. Its a straight up contest on strength of arms and skill with a blade and fists.

It's not if the Khorne Lord is twice the size of the Captain and appropriately stronger, astride a Juggernaut of Khorne and wielding two Daemon greataxes that move with supernatural force and precision.

 Deadshot wrote:
But if the Captain were fighting a lowly Hive Ganger, who just happened to be a Beta-level psyker. Well, the Space Marine should win on strength of arms, but against a psyker he doesn't even have the chance fight before atomisation.

Not really. What if the Hive Ganger had a meltagun? Khorne doesn't frown upon use of equipment or genetic/physiological enhancements. Khorne warbands make full use of guns, armour, vehicles, and so on. It's just as unfair when a Daemon Prince of Khorne or a Bloodthirster goes up against your average Tactical Marine or Commissar.

 Frozen Ocean wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

 Frozen Ocean wrote:
It would be cool. Khorne having an aversion to magic because it's "unfair" or whatever else is pretty contradictory, sense it has no qualms about giving Chaotic boons to its champions.

Khorne psykers could be cool. Being able to buff themselves/their unit, pull enemies closer to them, set their weapons on fire, and having an enhanced capability to Deny the Witch.

Side note, though; a trillion Orks thinking it wouldn't make it happen. That's not how the Waaagh! works.

Its not contradictory at all. In a duel, the Space Marine Captain and the Khorne Lord have equal chance to kill each other. Its a straight up contest on strength of arms and skill with a blade and fists.

It's not if the Khorne Lord is twice the size of the Captain and appropriately stronger, astride a Juggernaut of Khorne and wielding two Daemon greataxes that move with supernatural force and precision.

 Deadshot wrote:
But if the Captain were fighting a lowly Hive Ganger, who just happened to be a Beta-level psyker. Well, the Space Marine should win on strength of arms, but against a psyker he doesn't even have the chance fight before atomisation.

Not really. What if the Hive Ganger had a meltagun? Khorne doesn't frown upon use of equipment or genetic/physiological enhancements. Khorne warbands make full use of guns, armour, vehicles, and so on. It's just as unfair when a Daemon Prince of Khorne or a Bloodthirster goes up against your average Tactical Marine or Commissar.

Except that Captain had a fair chance to become stronger and faster. The Khorne Lord earned those rewards. The Lord has trained and fought with those axes. If the Captain is incapable of defeating a superior foe then as far as Khorne is concerned its a death well deserved.

If the Ganger is smart enough to bring a gun to a knife fight, fair play. The Captain had equal chance to bring such a weapon. Also, if a Daemon Prince or Bloodthirster is wasting time dueling each NCO, he'll risk Khorne's wrath. Slaughter of soldiers weaker is ok. They stood on the battlefield and they took the risk that they'd die. But if someone challenges him to a fight, and he gets crushed by massive Axe, what's the problem? He knew the risk, he took it. Of course, butchering a weaker opponent won't earn you any respect from Khorne or the rest of your Bloodthirster associates. For that you have to fight a worthy foe, a Marine Chapter Master or Grey Knight Dreadknight.

You don't need skill to pick up a possessed axe and become its bearer. Most Daemon Weapons are beneficial to the wielder because they either take control or imbue them with some power. You also don't need skill to use a flamer.

If it was all about skill, surely service to Khorne would make you physically weaker, putting you at more and more of a disadvantage so that every fight becomes more of a challenge. Instead, fellowship of Khorne allows you to receive powerful rewards that boost your prowess greatly.

"They could have been" is a problem. They could have been a Space Marine. They could have been a cyborg. They could have had a powerful weapon. Why does being a psyker matter? They could have been a psyker, too.

 Frozen Ocean wrote:
You don't need skill to pick up a possessed axe and become its bearer. Most Daemon Weapons are beneficial to the wielder because they either take control or imbue them with some power. You also don't need skill to use a flamer.

If it was all about skill, surely service to Khorne would make you physically weaker, putting you at more and more of a disadvantage so that every fight becomes more of a challenge. Instead, fellowship of Khorne allows you to receive powerful rewards that boost your prowess greatly.

"They could have been" is a problem. They could have been a Space Marine. They could have been a cyborg. They could have had a powerful weapon. Why does being a psyker matter? They could have been a psyker, too.

Except that anyone (male) can become a Space Marine, all they had to do was train and complete their challenge. They had the potential no matter if they were a psyker or not. Likewise, they could have had a powerful weapon, and be smart enough to bring it. In both cases the enemy has a fair chance to beat them. And no, a fair fight does not mean that they are equal. Fair means they both have their weapons and skills and physical attributes and the better man wins. Their opponent has a chance to stop the other killing them. A psyker doesn't even give you a chance to fight back. They can destroy you no matter what you do.

But ultimately those boons come down to luck. You're born a psyker just as you are chosen to become a Space Marine. What if your physical prowess was simply because you were lucky enough to be born into obscene wealth, and used it to give yourself extreme cybernetic enhancement? It wouldn't make you any less of a good warrior to Khorne. What about the Primarchs? They did nothing to earn their power. Dreadnoughts are given the armour for qualities that don't appeal to Khorne, but in doing so they become formidable combatants. Why does Dreadnought status count when psychic powers don't?

A psyker is not the instant winner of any given conflict. The higher levels might be, but they're rare. You could even say that they earn their power because it comes with its drawbacks and constant struggles. "They can destroy you no matter what you do" applies to a very large number of things in the 41st Millennium, but none are specifically denied by Khorne other than psychic powers.

If fair doesn't mean equal, what does it mean?

 Frozen Ocean wrote:
But ultimately those boons come down to luck. You're born a psyker just as you are chosen to become a Space Marine. What if your physical prowess was simply because you were lucky enough to be born into obscene wealth, and used it to give yourself extreme cybernetic enhancement? It wouldn't make you any less of a good warrior to Khorne. What about the Primarchs? They did nothing to earn their power. Dreadnoughts are given the armour for qualities that don't appeal to Khorne, but in doing so they become formidable combatants. Why does Dreadnought status count when psychic powers don't?

A psyker is not the instant winner of any given conflict. The higher levels might be, but they're rare. You could even say that they earn their power because it comes with its drawbacks and constant struggles. "They can destroy you no matter what you do" applies to a very large number of things in the 41st Millennium, but none are specifically denied by Khorne other than psychic powers.

If fair doesn't mean equal, what does it mean?

It means fair. Both combatants have a fair chance to outfight the other. One born into wealth can have training and become a space marine, but the lowborn ganger has an equal chance to make himself worthy to become a Space Marine. You are made an Astartes because you are worthy. Each of the Primarchs earned their status through their actions. None just claimed their status, they worked hard to unite their people or free it from tyranny or whatever. They fought for the Imperium. Dreadnoughts fought hard to earn their place in the sarcophagus, and they fight all the harder once inside. A psyker did not earn his abilities, it was literal luck, blind chance that his genes lined up.

Khorne does not have any affinity towards psykers because he glorifies martial strength and skill. Electrocuting a bunch of enemies in cover with a lightning bolt from 50 feet away does not prove you are an exemplary martial warrior like going in and besting them all in hand to hand combat.

Certain forms of ritual magic would still appeal to him to grant boons, like blood sacrifices and the like.

 Deadshot wrote:

 Frozen Ocean wrote:
But ultimately those boons come down to luck. You're born a psyker just as you are chosen to become a Space Marine. What if your physical prowess was simply because you were lucky enough to be born into obscene wealth, and used it to give yourself extreme cybernetic enhancement? It wouldn't make you any less of a good warrior to Khorne. What about the Primarchs? They did nothing to earn their power. Dreadnoughts are given the armour for qualities that don't appeal to Khorne, but in doing so they become formidable combatants. Why does Dreadnought status count when psychic powers don't?

A psyker is not the instant winner of any given conflict. The higher levels might be, but they're rare. You could even say that they earn their power because it comes with its drawbacks and constant struggles. "They can destroy you no matter what you do" applies to a very large number of things in the 41st Millennium, but none are specifically denied by Khorne other than psychic powers.

If fair doesn't mean equal, what does it mean?

It means fair. Both combatants have a fair chance to outfight the other. One born into wealth can have training and become a space marine, but the lowborn ganger has an equal chance to make himself worthy to become a Space Marine. You are made an Astartes because you are worthy. Each of the Primarchs earned their status through their actions. None just claimed their status, they worked hard to unite their people or free it from tyranny or whatever. They fought for the Imperium. Dreadnoughts fought hard to earn their place in the sarcophagus, and they fight all the harder once inside. A psyker did not earn his abilities, it was literal luck, blind chance that his genes lined up.

It is luck, however. Becoming a Space Marine requires you to happen, out of all of the trillions in the Imperium, to be selected for it. Not only do you have to survive the recruitment process thereafter, but you also have to be physiologically/genetically compatible with the procedure. As for the Primarchs, I said power, not status. They were literally born that way. They didn't fight to earn their strength, they were created by the Emperor to be that way. Dreadnoughts are not selected to get the armour for their martial prowess, but a lot of stuff to do with honour and other Chapter-specific values that aren't Khorne's values.

"They could have been" makes Khorne's judgement meaningless. Pretty much any human in the entire galaxy had the potential to be an Ironclad Dreadnought, but that doesn't mean Khorne judges them as if they are, or judges them a worthy adversary for someone bearing the Mark just because they could have been an Ironclad Dreadnought or a Warlord Titan. How is a Lord of Skulls a fair fight?

The only reason for Khorne to despise psykers, without being an exception for no obvious reason, is Tzeentch. Even so, I would much prefer Khorne to dislike the more magical side of it (because of Tzeentch) while having psykers who have Biomancy and stuff like that.

 Frozen Ocean wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

 Frozen Ocean wrote:
But ultimately those boons come down to luck. You're born a psyker just as you are chosen to become a Space Marine. What if your physical prowess was simply because you were lucky enough to be born into obscene wealth, and used it to give yourself extreme cybernetic enhancement? It wouldn't make you any less of a good warrior to Khorne. What about the Primarchs? They did nothing to earn their power. Dreadnoughts are given the armour for qualities that don't appeal to Khorne, but in doing so they become formidable combatants. Why does Dreadnought status count when psychic powers don't?

A psyker is not the instant winner of any given conflict. The higher levels might be, but they're rare. You could even say that they earn their power because it comes with its drawbacks and constant struggles. "They can destroy you no matter what you do" applies to a very large number of things in the 41st Millennium, but none are specifically denied by Khorne other than psychic powers.

If fair doesn't mean equal, what does it mean?

It means fair. Both combatants have a fair chance to outfight the other. One born into wealth can have training and become a space marine, but the lowborn ganger has an equal chance to make himself worthy to become a Space Marine. You are made an Astartes because you are worthy. Each of the Primarchs earned their status through their actions. None just claimed their status, they worked hard to unite their people or free it from tyranny or whatever. They fought for the Imperium. Dreadnoughts fought hard to earn their place in the sarcophagus, and they fight all the harder once inside. A psyker did not earn his abilities, it was literal luck, blind chance that his genes lined up.

It is luck, however. Becoming a Space Marine requires you to happen, out of all of the trillions in the Imperium, to be selected for it. Not only do you have to survive the recruitment process thereafter, but you also have to be physiologically/genetically compatible with the procedure. As for the Primarchs, I said power, not status. They were literally born that way. They didn't fight to earn their strength, they were created by the Emperor to be that way. Dreadnoughts are not selected to get the armour for their martial prowess, but a lot of stuff to do with honour and other Chapter-specific values that aren't Khorne's values.

"They could have been" makes Khorne's judgement meaningless. Pretty much any human in the entire galaxy had the potential to be an Ironclad Dreadnought, but that doesn't mean Khorne judges them as if they are, or judges them a worthy adversary for someone bearing the Mark just because they could have been an Ironclad Dreadnought or a Warlord Titan. How is a Lord of Skulls a fair fight?

The only reason for Khorne to despise psykers, without being an exception for no obvious reason, is Tzeentch. Even so, I would much prefer Khorne to dislike the more magical side of it (because of Tzeentch) while having psykers who have Biomancy and stuff like that.

There is elements of luck, but the luck can be mitigated by hard work. You can be born into the richest family in the world and waste your time gorging yourself on food, or train and exercise so that if the Space Marines do come they can make you one. Or even if they don't you can become a warrior anyway, lead armies, etc. Primarchs were born with it, yes, but they worked hard afterwards to put it to good use and earn it through martial accomplishments, which Khorne does support.

Its not a case of "Could have been" its a case of "If they had worked harder and made the fight more equal, but didn't." Its a choice made. Psyker is not a choice. Psyker is a gift not earned.

Dreadnoughts are interned entirely for their honour and tactical wisdom and martial prowess. They are awarded for their abilities as a great warrior, so great in fact that they can't be lost. And AFTERWARDS they honour their new form by killing and bloodshed galore. Khorne through and through.

And I never said worthy enemy. I said that they stepped on the battlefield and new the risks that they'd be killed by a bolter to the face, or a Lord of War's treads. They had chances in their life to have change their fortunes and bring a meltagun or be a tank driver and kill the Lord of War themselves, but chose instead to be cannon fodder. Not Khorne's fault or problem. But a psyker did not choose his powers, he just got them and was able to kill a much more powerful opponent that he by all rights, should not beat.

Psykers have to work for their power. They have to constantly struggle with the machinations of daemons who want very much to claim their soul. They have to manage the power within them without causing their brains to melt or accidentally disintegrating their whole bodies. A psyker has the potential to develop their skills for battle just as anyone else does, but for everyone it comes down to luck and circumstance. Choosing to take your powers to the battlefield is the same as choosing to use your obscene wealth to enhance your physical capabilities far beyond that of a Space Marine.

A random agri-farmer is not going to become a powerful warrior no matter how much they try. The best they can hope for is either that a Space Marine Chapter just so happens to recruit from their world, or they stumble across an ancient and powerful Daemon Weapon, but both are blind luck and the probability is extremely low. Even if they did, they don't earn their power. Becoming the bearer of a Daemon Weapon or becoming a Space Marine both have trials, but they aren't at all equivalent to the gains.

You did say worthy enemy. You used the example of a hive ganger fighting a Space Marine Captain, and that this is "fair" because the ganger could have brought a meltagun, which a Space Marine Captain has an "equal chance" to bring. I daresay that a Space Marine Captain has far greater access to meltaguns than a hive ganger. But apparently this absolutely unfair fight is fair because powerful weapons exist and the hive ganger may have been able to bring one.

Basically what you're saying is that Khorne really doesn't care about your physical prowess, instead judging you based on what you could have been. Working hard will get you nowhere if you don't get lucky with your circumstance.

Primarchs were born with it, yes, but they worked hard afterwards to put it to good use and earn it through martial accomplishments, which Khorne does support.

Why does it apply to Primarchs and not to psykers? You could easily swap your statements on Primarchs and psykers. Both are born with power they did not earn, and suffer hardships to accomplish their goals.

Each of the Primarchs earned their status through their actions

Ehm... no they didn't. They were, literally, born to fill the roles the Emperor placed them in.

I bet the application process would be grueling and those lucky few that made it to the second interview would probably not want the job.

I'm pretty sure there used to be such things as khornate psykers/sorcerers in some ancient fluff. I still think it makes perfect sense, especially if they use their powers to summon daemons of Khorne.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
Khorne does not have any affinity towards psykers because he glorifies martial strength and skill. Electrocuting a bunch of enemies in cover with a lightning bolt from 50 feet away does not prove you are an exemplary martial warrior like going in and besting them all in hand to hand combat.

Certain forms of ritual magic would still appeal to him to grant boons, like blood sacrifices and the like.

But shooting them from 50' away with "Skull Cannon of Khorne" or a "Khorne Lord of Skulls" is different? Weapons are weapons...he should just be about battle in any form IMO.

 D6Damager wrote:

 AegisGrimm wrote:
Khorne does not have any affinity towards psykers because he glorifies martial strength and skill. Electrocuting a bunch of enemies in cover with a lightning bolt from 50 feet away does not prove you are an exemplary martial warrior like going in and besting them all in hand to hand combat.

Certain forms of ritual magic would still appeal to him to grant boons, like blood sacrifices and the like.

But shooting them from 50' away with "Skull Cannon of Khorne" or a "Khorne Lord of Skulls" is different? Weapons are weapons...he should just be about battle in any form IMO.

skulls+weapons+lots of death= Khorne happy (or angry?)
LIghtning from the fingers requiring no skill or training + very angry Khorne(?)

The biggest/only issue with Khorne and psykers is that the fantasy and 40k worlds use the same names for the chaos gods. The way I see it is the in fantasy (and this would be a gross oversimplification of fantasy), wizardry is used so that you don't have to fight hand to hand. Khorne is the god of martial prowess and skill while Tzeentch is the god of Sorcerers.

In 40k, psykers are different. The best way would be to have different options. Something like Unmarked can take malific, telepathy, pyromancy or biomancy. Mark of Khorne can take Khorne, malific, biomancy or telekenisis. Mark of Tzeentch can take Tzeentch, malific, telepathy or divination. Mark of Nurgle can take Nurgle, malific, biomancy or (x). Mark of Slaanesh (sp?) can take Slaanesh (sp?), malific, telepathy, or (x)

In my renegade marines warband I frequently have MoK marines going to battle with a lvl 3 Biomancer with a power axe.