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For christmas I'm building a new Grey Knights force. It will be my very first Imperial models and Space Marines in general and I'm looking forward to getting some Grimdark Space Paladins of Order on the painting and gaming table, but I've run into a problem... I'm not too familiar with Power Weapons and melee in general (Have played Orks but that's not exactly the same as Grey Knights in melee I reckon), so I need some help with my choice of Nemesis weapons. Furthermore, I don't play regular 40K, but Kill Team (The Heralds of Ruin edition), so I can't translate the tactics on the Grey Knights to my type of game.

What I plan on getting is at 3-4 Purifiers (One being my Team Leader, giving him more Wounds), an Interceptor or two, some Strike Squad Knights to keep cost down, and maybe, just maybe some Terminators - Won't bring Paladins, that would be cruel to my opponents. I won't bring any Purgators, as my normal Knights can do basically the same.

I guess Psychic powers work a bit different in this game, so I oughta explain that - Only my Team Leader (Who is a Knight of the Flame) is a Psyker, but if he's killed, another Knight can take up the mantle as my Psychic model. He knows Banishment, Hammerhand and Cleansing Flame (Purifier, remember?) automatically: Hammerhand affects him and all within 3'', while Cleansing Flame is an automatic S 5 AP 4 Ignore Cover hit on all enemy models within 9''. He of course knows Force and can hand it out to all within 3''.

My main opponents are Imperial Guard with all that bring (Guardsmen and Guardsmen and Guardsmen and a few Scions as well.), a Necron player spamming all the Immortals, usually with a kitted Lord in tow, a Tyranid player I am yet to play against who has a fair share of Warriors and Genestealers and an Eldar Player who loves his Striking Scorpions and Warlock very much.

The important thing is to give my models weaponry that works well when alone or with another Knight as a team-up - Remember that models in this game work independently.

What should I give my gits? Halberd, Sword, Flachion, Hammers? I'll await your answer

At the moment, each of the GK Nemesis weapons are good in their own right, and a mix of weapons is still a good way to go about it. Some, like myself, recommend 1 Hammer per 5 Power Armored GK, while 2 Hammers per 5 GK Termies. Swords are best on PAGK because they are free. Falchions beat Halberds statistically in CC, with or without Hammerhand active, although Halberds are cheaper than Fachions. The Staff is worth it on the Librarian, not so much on the other GK squads. I recommend not putting Hammers on your Pyscannon totes, although other will recommend that you do; my reasoning is that I'd rather not lose both to a single Precision shot. Also, I never put a Hammer on the Justicar, for the same reason.

For Nemesis DreadKnights, the Great sword is better, but the Hammer is still great, and sticking with just the Power Fists perfectly fine.

SJ

*claps*

---

I also put Falchions on my Terminator Justicars, because challenges.

And I like a single staff in a Terminator squad, but I have a high volume of psykers in my meta.

I may be an idiot here but I don't really see there being a lot of benefit to falchions. Is there something I'm missing?

 Rysaer wrote:
I may be an idiot here but I don't really see there being a lot of benefit to falchions. Is there something I'm missing?

The extra attack they give you effectively increases your damage output by 50%. They're significantly better than haldberds against everything except T6 (and if you cast hammerhand, the falchions are better against T6 as well). You pay for the privilege, of course - the various Grey Knights melee weapons are fairly priced, so it's sort of a toss-up of which you should take. Our local GK player prefers halberds, since he's often fighting against MCs and likes to save his warp charges for casting other powers (or else he just casts Force and gets ID attacks, in which case halberds are again the more reliable choice). If you're fighting a lot of single-wound T3-5 models, then there's a good case to be made that Falchions are what you should be using.

 DanielBeaver wrote:

 Rysaer wrote:
I may be an idiot here but I don't really see there being a lot of benefit to falchions. Is there something I'm missing?

The extra attack they give you effectively increases your damage output by 50%. They're significantly better than haldberds against everything except T6 (and if you cast hammerhand, the falchions are better against T6 as well). You pay for the privilege, of course - the various Grey Knights melee weapons are fairly priced, so it's sort of a toss-up of which you should take. Our local GK player prefers halberds, since he's often fighting against MCs and likes to save his warp charges for casting other powers (or else he just casts Force and gets ID attacks, in which case halberds are again the more reliable choice). If you're fighting a lot of single-wound T3-5 models, then there's a good case to be made that Falchions are what you should be using.

Ahh that makes much more sense, I'm yet to use the Grey Knights I've started building, so that information may have just saved me a few nightmares in the construction process. So thanks for that.

The bulk of my friends use AM, SM and Tau so the Falchions are probably the way to go for me.

I think a mix of weapons is a good way to go...

my favored build for my terminators goes like this
Justicar; Falchions & Melta Bombs(if points allow)
1 Pair of Falchions
1 Daemon Hammer
2 Halberds (1 w/ Psycannon)

I like to equip all of my Justicars with Falchions because the extra attacks at initiative for challenges. I recommended this build to a friend who also plays GK who normally put a hammer on his Justicar but I suggested that it's likely that he'll face some challenges and it's good to be able to put wounds in earlier.

For my purifier teams I pretty much set them up with mostly falchions(when points allow) and a single daemon hammer and incinerator(per five). If I need the points I leave the falchions on the KoTF but make the rest swords (keeping the hammer/incinerator)

Taking 1 Daemon Hammer per squad seems like a pretty good buy. It gives desperately needed AP2, and you can give it to a non-character (who can use the rest of the squad as a shield, and so it doesn't really matter that it's hitting at I1). I would rather spend 10 points on that than 10 points on five halberds.

Thanks for the well-thoughtout replies That made me think about actually adding a few Daemon-hammers... Never thought I'd do that before.

Also, most of you didn't gather that "units" ain't a thing in my games, but I can read through it no problem... If you can, single Knight tactics for weapons would be appreciated

Kill team?

So no Termies?

Swords 100%

 ductvader wrote:
Kill team?

So no Termies?

Swords 100%

He's playing the Heralds of Ruin version, which does have 2+ armored units.

But I think most of the replies are with regular 40k in mind (mine certainly were). Things that are good in regular 40k are not necessarily good in Kill Teams.

Yeah stating this is a version of kill team right off the bat would have been helpful.

For kill team, I would take falchions on all pagk models, and take 2 hammers on terminators. With that version of kill team, volume of attacks will go a long way.

DanielBeaver wrote:

 ductvader wrote:
Kill team?

So no Termies?

Swords 100%

He's playing the Heralds of Ruin version, which does have 2+ armored units.

But I think most of the replies are with regular 40k in mind (mine certainly were). Things that are good in regular 40k are not necessarily good in Kill Teams.

1 +

Ork Boyz? Somewhat useful when your enemy is Guardsmen. Useless against Necron Warriors and up. Ork Nobs? Fukken slaptastic beatsticks. Ork Boss Nob? Unstoppable. Killa Kans? Durable as hell. Painboyz? Vital. Lootas? Flailing losers. Kommandos? The most durable Orks ever.

I love this game, and I really think it should be paid more attention. Some models are off and I'd want them to do something about cover as it doesn't translate too well to a game where there's nothing BUT cover, and maybe get us some less annoying missions, but them's the brakes.

greyknight12 wrote:Yeah stating this is a version of kill team right off the bat would have been helpful.

I did. Re-read my original post, please.

I'd actually go BT over GK in that format, but so digress...

I have to agree that Falchions win by mathhammer, but I still prefer halberds, especially if you can only use hammerhand within 3 inches of your psyker. Maybe take falchions on a termie and your KoF, 2 hammers on termies, and halberds on the rest.


That's my 2¢.

Honestly, hammers are the only melee upgrade that matters. GKs are very solid in assault anyways, their weakness as an army is that they only have limited range Str 4 and Str 7 shooting. Throw a couple hammers in your units and spend the rest of those points on more psycannons, preferably on Dreadknights.

 DarkLink wrote:
Honestly, hammers are the only melee upgrade that matters. GKs are very solid in assault anyways, their weakness as an army is that they only have limited range Str 4 and Str 7 shooting. Throw a couple hammers in your units and spend the rest of those points on more psycannons, preferably on Dreadknights.

Can't much do that in Kill Team, but I get you - I suppose a few of my Strikes will have Psycannons and Incinerators, so my expensive beaters won't be too expensive. I had a Kommando with a Burna, and that gak dies all the time. 25 pt wasted :(

You need mobility for flamer units, which means no Incinerators on non-Interceptors and non-DreadKnight units.

SJ

I mix it up to, but I have started putting the Falchions on all f my Squad Leaders.
Sword: As a default weapons they are good, but nothing Special
Falchions: Great for the Extra Attack. I have at least one pair per Squad.
Halberd: The Boost in Strength makes then a threat to MCs and most Vehicles, once more at least one per Squad.
Warding Staff: Great for the S6 Attacks, also a geed choice for dealing with Vehicles and MCs. Concussive and Ward are also good.
Daemon Hammer: A must have in every Squad just to deal with Vehicles, MCs and 2+ Saves. I would never put one of these on a model that can be challenged.

Psi-Cannons: I use them with my Terminators, but for them I just use Swords, a hold over from the Last Codex I probably not change.
Psilencers: These I love on my Paladins and Dread Knight, with them now being Force and their high Rate of Fire they can deal with a lot of Multi-Wound Models Quick.
Incinerators: There are on my Purifiers and Interceptors for the Following Assaults.

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
You need mobility for flamer units, which means no Incinerators on non-Interceptors and non-DreadKnight units.

SJ

I already thought of an Incinerator on Interceptor... *Pop* Excuse me good Daemon, have you accepted the truth of teleporting Heavy Flamer? *FUUUUUSH*.

I don't know if I can take a special weapon on an Interceptor when I haven't got five of them yet... That's how Strikers work at least.

 The Wise Dane wrote:

DanielBeaver wrote:

 ductvader wrote:
Kill team?

So no Termies?

Swords 100%

He's playing the Heralds of Ruin version, which does have 2+ armored units.

But I think most of the replies are with regular 40k in mind (mine certainly were). Things that are good in regular 40k are not necessarily good in Kill Teams.

1 +

Ork Boyz? Somewhat useful when your enemy is Guardsmen. Useless against Necron Warriors and up. Ork Nobs? Fukken slaptastic beatsticks. Ork Boss Nob? Unstoppable. Killa Kans? Durable as hell. Painboyz? Vital. Lootas? Flailing losers. Kommandos? The most durable Orks ever.

I love this game, and I really think it should be paid more attention. Some models are off and I'd want them to do something about cover as it doesn't translate too well to a game where there's nothing BUT cover, and maybe get us some less annoying missions, but them's the brakes.

greyknight12 wrote:Yeah stating this is a version of kill team right off the bat would have been helpful.

I did. Re-read my original post, please.

They have to get there first, but 20 ork slugga boyz against 10 necron warriors (which is about 20% more points of necron warriors) will on the charge statistically do

ork sluggas: 1/3 x 1/2 x 1/2 = 1/12 x 20 = about 2 warriors down, 8 left

overwatch: 1/6 x 1/2 = 1/12 x 16 = 16/12, let's round to closest and say 1 dead ork, 19 left.

Orks and Warriors attack at the same Initiative. Let's do Warriors first

1/2 x 1/2 x 5/6 = 5/24 x 8 = 40/24 = about 2 dead orks.

Boyz vs. Orks: 1/2 x 1/2 x 1/2 = 1/8 x 76 = 76/8 = about 10 dead warriors.

Result = 3 dead orks, 10 necron warriors destroyed

Alcibiades wrote:

 The Wise Dane wrote:


1 +

Ork Boyz? Somewhat useful when your enemy is Guardsmen. Useless against Necron Warriors and up. Ork Nobs? Fukken slaptastic beatsticks. Ork Boss Nob? Unstoppable. Killa Kans? Durable as hell. Painboyz? Vital. Lootas? Flailing losers. Kommandos? The most durable Orks ever.

I love this game, and I really think it should be paid more attention. Some models are off and I'd want them to do something about cover as it doesn't translate too well to a game where there's nothing BUT cover, and maybe get us some less annoying missions, but them's the brakes.

greyknight12 wrote:Yeah stating this is a version of kill team right off the bat would have been helpful.

I did. Re-read my original post, please.

They have to get there first, but 20 ork slugga boyz against 10 necron warriors (which is about 20% more points of necron warriors) will on the charge statistically do

ork sluggas: 1/3 x 1/2 x 1/2 = 1/12 x 20 = about 2 warriors down, 8 left

overwatch: 1/6 x 1/2 = 1/12 x 16 = 16/12, let's round to closest and say 1 dead ork, 19 left.

Orks and Warriors attack at the same Initiative. Let's do Warriors first

1/2 x 1/2 x 5/6 = 5/24 x 8 = 40/24 = about 2 dead orks.

Boyz vs. Orks: 1/2 x 1/2 x 1/2 = 1/8 x 76 = 76/8 = about 10 dead warriors.

Result = 3 dead orks, 10 necron warriors destroyed

Problem is, my gits are Shootas - They can still krump a git or two with green mass of muscle on the charge, but when you have nothing but Warriors and Immortals with Gauss and you might have put a bit too much points in your Kommandos and Warbikers, they aren't enough.