Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey guys, I've just skimmed the new rules PDF a bit, and one thing I came upon bothered me a bit. It's under the rules for CH: TO
"TO CAMO markers retain the Silhouette values listen on their profiles."
Does this mean that if you field a TO TAG, your opponent will immeadiately know that it is a TAG?
The only contradicting rule I find is; "If the TO CAMO marker is concealing a piece of equipment with the CH: TO CAMO special skill, it's silhouette value is 2."
However, a TAG is not a piece of equipment... right?

Sorry if this has been answered before, did a quick search but found nothing.

I think it's been changed to stop silliness like a TAG being able to reapply TO camo to move through a small gap in a wall.

 Riquende wrote:
I think it's been changed to stop silliness like a TAG being able to reapply TO camo to move through a small gap in a wall.

Sure, that's possible, and I can also see how it works with people not being able to ARO the TO marker walking past a high wall, but then suddenly the TO marker can shoot at them.
However, a pretty big part of the TO-marker thing is that the opponent is not supposed to know what's below it. Now they most certainly will know what's below it.

It's never harmed the Uhlan's popularity on the Infinity forum that it's the only non-TO Camo model in PanO's entire range.

I don't think that TO is supposed to represent absolute invisibility (after the marker is placed, anyway). I get the sense that there's supposed to be a 'shimmer', or some other visual disturbance. It makes sense that you'd be able to tell the difference between a TAG moving around in a TO and a regular guy by whatever optical distortion you were catching out of the corner of your eye. And if you're aware enough of the enemy range to know they only have a single TO TAG option, then I guess they'll know just what it is (though not what loadout if there are multiple available).

Remember that N3 is supposed to be all about clearing up funny quirks in the rules, and I reckon that models changing size suddenly mid game was considered a quirk that needed dealing with. I get the sense that something about some uses of TO has been lost, but if there's a clever way to retain sizeless markers, without also having models/markers being able to change size, then it seems it hasn't been thought of yet.

Once the marker is down on the table, I always got the impression that the other force is using its sensory equipment which will give it some idea of the size of the enemy - so a massive 'blip' on the scanner, visible from a drone flying above the battlefield or whatever.

If you also imagine the TO as functioning like the Predator's cloaking ability (which I think it probably how its meant to be) then it stands to reason that 'shimmer' is going to be bigger for the TAG than it would be for a little Toureg or something similar - in that sense, the system they had before (of just the token/blip) wasn't really an accurate representation of what you imagine to be happening on the battlefield.

Yeah, that's sort of how I assumed it's supposed to be.
My main view point comes from really liking to play mind games using my Sphinx, which won't be a thing anymore as when I drop my Shasvastii sectorial, everyone will know what the big thing is.

However, maybe this "nerf" comes with some price reductions for my loved sphinx

Also in the token PDF they have on the site for DL there is a large TO cammo token for the TO TAGS, that's how I figured it out