Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Right I have a few questions regarding formations.

1. Are there restrictions on how you deploy?? I ask because I remember reading somewhere that formations have to deploy at the same time, within a certain distance of each other. That may have been apoc though.

2. The royal court formation. Is that a unit of characters?? Or can they be broken up and attached to other units? It seems a bit silly that you could only take Imotekh in a decurion with a unit of other characters, but this is GW

And good god, someone messed up with the wraiths. How they justified that points cost I will never fathom

Monument, I'll answer those questions over on the AMA thread. Don't want to bog down this thread with a bunch of questions that people may already have answers for

I'm leaning towards footslogging myself. A Decurion made up of mainly infantry blocks would absorb insane amounts of damage. A 20 man warrior squad would take about 240 bolter shots to bring down if my math serves me correctly.
I'm fully expecting this book to shake up the meta. Str8 ap3 large blasts will be insanely popular I reckon

Footslogging is made even more viable with the Judicator Formation because it comes with some pretty nasty assault troops and Vehicles that give +1 Ballistic to the warriors then get's to pick a unit and you reroll all failed shooting and wound rolls against that unit.

2 Judicator Battalions minimally come to 810 though.

Hollismason wrote:
Footslogging is made even more viable with the Judicator Formation because it comes with some pretty nasty assault troops and Vehicles that give +1 Ballistic to the warriors then get's to pick a unit and you reroll all failed shooting and wound rolls against that unit.

2 Judicator Battalions minimally come to 810 though.

I don't see much of a reason why you would take more than one, when you can just take one, with two max squads and a squad of Triarch Stalkers.

Only the Praetorians and Stalker get the formation bonuses. Warriors would still get the +1 BS though. SilverTide would be pretty cool to see on the table again though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sasori wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
Footslogging is made even more viable with the Judicator Formation because it comes with some pretty nasty assault troops and Vehicles that give +1 Ballistic to the warriors then get's to pick a unit and you reroll all failed shooting and wound rolls against that unit.

2 Judicator Battalions minimally come to 810 though.

I don't see much of a reason why you would take more than one, when you can just take one, with two max squads and a squad of Triarch Stalkers.

Well you would get to pick two units a turn to get all the rerolls against. Also MSU generally isn't a bad thing in 7th, especially when you're talking about Vehicle Squadrons vs single Vehicles.

With all the Buffs from Decurion Detachment its seems like a lot of players are going to at least try one. To me, the buffs are tempered by the modular nature of the formations and their somewhat high price tags. This seems like it will steer a lot of lists away from spam and towards synergy between the formations.

We've seen the formation rules, the Triarch formation unless someone posted the wrong rules, affects other units.

Don't forget Triarch Stalkers are walking around w/ heavy 2 MultiMeltas, thats not a terrible thing. ST8 AP2 , that rerolls wounds and hits. Yes.

Hollismason wrote:
We've seen the formation rules, the Triarch formation unless someone posted the wrong rules, affects other units.

Don't forget Triarch Stalkers are walking around w/ heavy 2 MultiMeltas, thats not a terrible thing. ST8 AP2 , that rerolls wounds and hits. Yes.

I've seen it posted both ways, several times recently. So I'm not sure on the bonus myself.

I'm reading it right now.
The +1BS effects any unit and is a rule from the Stalker itself.
The re-rolls only works on the Formation and is obtained by fielding a Formation.

Thats a bummer. But I still think the Judicator Formation is strong because praetorians are good and mobile for themself and ste stalker is great force multiplier for a gunline.

And of course the sight of stalkers following an advancing silver tide looks just awesome, so I will filed them alone for that reason

I don't play Necrons but I am very tempted to pick some up now that I'm looking at the new codex.

Monoliths are listed as Heavy Skimmers, does this allow them to jink or is there something in the rules for Heavy vehicles that prohibits this? If they can jink, they seem really durable, and for less than a Land Raider? Sweet. The Obelisk/Monolith formation looks like fun too.

There are so many ways to get a 4+ Reanimation roll, and there are a few options for getting large units around the board (teleporting by Obyron/Veil of Darkness, monolith-formation without scatter if placed close to Obelisk). Is Silver TIde the solution for Adamantine lance?

Wraiths are just crazy good. Tomb Blades seem pretty useful as well, with a 3+ jink or Ignore Cover (or a mix of those skills in one unit)

I'm sure Nemesor Zahndrekh's trolltastic ability could be a lot of fun in some games.

"Skimmers that are not also Heavy vehicles have the Jink special rule."

I like the fact that Zandrekh straight up steals rules off the enemy now. I'm torn between him or a tooled up Overlord to stick in a big block of warriors.

Overlord with the resurrection artifact means straight up 4+ reanimation against anything that aint destroyer (to hell with your inst death). Im fairly sure the wording on the rerolls even says you can choose to use it after you have failed a roll for him or the unit.

My main gaming buddy plays Orks though, so it would be hilarious to charge in with 40 Str 5 attacks from warriors, even after shooting that turn (Relentless is awesome). So for that Zandrekh seems fitting.

This is all assuming Decurion obviously. Did I read that Tesla carbines are heavy now?

MonumentOfRibs wrote:
I like the fact that Zandrekh straight up steals rules off the enemy now. I'm torn between him or a tooled up Overlord to stick in a big block of warriors.

Seems like it could bog the game down though.

"Do any of your units have any of these rules?" Could be a pretty lengthy process.

Zhandrekh always had that, though he no longer steals abilities.
The buff is that you can gain multiple abilities.
But what does suck is that he can no longer give abilities that aren't on the board.

My favourite tactic was to give the T-C'tan Tank Hunter and have him one-shot a Baneblade-chassis with his 6D6-attack.
That's the area where we are probably nerfed the most: Apocalypse.
I already had a hard time against most other armies, but with our only strong points nerfed I can't imagine they will ever win.

So my big question is how to equip preatorians. Rod or particle caster and voidblade.

 buddha wrote:
So my big question is how to equip preatorians. Rod or particle caster and voidblade.

It's not even a contest, the Rod is superior. Increased shooting attack, and you strike with AP2 an Init Value. Easy!

 buddha wrote:
So my big question is how to equip preatorians. Rod or particle caster and voidblade.

I can't see myself ever taking the Voidblades.

 buddha wrote:
So my big question is how to equip preatorians. Rod or particle caster and voidblade.

A very good question now. Voidblades give them 3 attacks, 4 on the charge, and make them pretty substantial tank shredders as well. Entropic Strike auto-glances on 6s, so 10 with Voidblades/Shredders is 40 attacks, ~2 glances. Actually, that's not too great overall. Not bad, could be a good follow up to finish off a wounded vehicle though.

I would go Rod, though. The Particle Caster is garbage comparatively. It was nice before when it gave you the extra attack and also had more range than the Rod, but now that it just gives 1 more attack AND removes your AP2...


Look, AP2 shooting and at-initiative AP2 Assault is good. Even though it's only I2, that's going before Power Fists, Power Axes, Klaws, etc. That's pretty substantial in the long run.

Voidblades are vastly superior against armor and lightly armored hordes.

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:
Voidblades are vastly superior against armor and lightly armored hordes.

Do Necrons have issues with armour or lightly-armoured hordes?

Void blades also deal with knights (of all types) and with praetorian speed can get some shots in rear as well, there duri formation allows rerolls (unsure if in cc) which is very useful.

The stick will blend heavy armoured troops termies/meganobs etc plus are some of our very few low ap shooting

so over all they are both good BUT at diffrent main targets, i'm planning a squad of each.

 Sasori wrote:

 GKTiberius wrote:
Has anyone seen any rules on entropic strike. is it the same, has it changed and did anything gain/lose it?

Entropic Strike sucks now. On a six to pen/wound it casues an automatic wound/glance unless it would pen.


Looks like the Judicator bonus is only for Models in that formation, which is too bad!

Guess I'll just have to figure out what else to take instead!

this is the rule for gauss. entropic srtrik stripped points of armor. does it still do that or has anyone heard?

Its also what entropic strike does in the new dex...its basically gauss in melee

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:
Voidblades are vastly superior against armor and lightly armored hordes.

That is true (assuming by "lightly armored" you mean 5+, as Rod is better against 4+ or better). They're still not a true answer to Knights, though, since they can't really do anything against the Strength D attacks.

Skullhammer wrote:
Void blades also deal with knights (of all types) and with praetorian speed can get some shots in rear as well, there duri formation allows rerolls (unsure if in cc) which is very useful.

The stick will blend heavy armoured troops termies/meganobs etc plus are some of our very few low ap shooting

so over all they are both good BUT at diffrent main targets, i'm planning a squad of each.

Void Blades do almost nothing to knights.... Even with a full squad hitting on the charge, which would never happen since the knight goes first, you're still only averaging 4.4 hull-points.

The Void Blade and Particle caster is slightly better and killing light vehicles, and low save models... Something the Necron Army does in abundance.

The Rod is just the flat out better option.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 GKTiberius wrote:

 Sasori wrote:

 GKTiberius wrote:
Has anyone seen any rules on entropic strike. is it the same, has it changed and did anything gain/lose it?

Entropic Strike sucks now. On a six to pen/wound it casues an automatic wound/glance unless it would pen.


Looks like the Judicator bonus is only for Models in that formation, which is too bad!

Guess I'll just have to figure out what else to take instead!

this is the rule for gauss. entropic srtrik stripped points of armor. does it still do that or has anyone heard?

Seriously?

This is the rule for Entropic Strike now.

So what do we have in our book that can deal with knights? ABarges and Scythes can do some damage, assuming we can flank to mitigate the shield. Doom Scythes are quite hard anti-armor now, but with the new Death Ray it's going to be harder to hit the thing (has to remain in front arc, scatter dice are unreliable, etc). Stalkers are our meltas, but of course, they're immobile and prone to, well, getting blown up.

A Destroyer Cult with Heavy Destroyer and 1-2 Heavies in each Destroyer squad getting the rerolls to pen from the Formation might be our best bet against them from a shooting perspective.

In Assault, Scythes are our only real option, other than trying to throw enough Scarabs into the thing to try and eventually glance it down. Except Lychguard suffer the same problem everything else does against a Knight that has a lower Initiative - a bunch will die before they get to attack.

Which is why I think the only "real" option for fighting a Knight is an Overlord and ~2 Lords with Scythes, having a retinue of Sword and Shield Lychguard to try and tank the Chainsword on their 3++ saves. And even that's not fantastic.


Edit: Of course, if you include Forge World, Acanthrites have their meltaguns too, but that's FW and also needing to be in 6" for the Melta range reaaaally sucks.

Kangodo wrote:
Zhandrekh always had that, though he no longer steals abilities.
The buff is that you can gain multiple abilities.
But what does suck is that he can no longer give abilities that aren't on the board.

I meant I like that he copies enemy units. Fluff wise I can imagine him going
"We could learn a thing or two from those Orks"
And personally I think him being able to pick a Warlord Trait each turn makes up for that. Re rollins 1's to hit for all friendlies within 12 is a damn good one. Pair that with a Triarch Stalker and you could essentially have BS 5 twin linked warriors. Nasty

If you aren't jinking then a knight will get at least one glance from a barge. If you've got two thats 2 per turn which isn't to bad. And the Doomsday Ark

But assault is tough. I guess you could send wraiths in as both a tarpit and a way to get glances.

Jaq Draco lives wrote:
If you aren't jinking then a knight will get at least one glance from a barge. If you've got two thats 2 per turn which isn't to bad. And the Doomsday Ark

But assault is tough. I guess you could send wraiths in as both a tarpit and a way to get glances.

Are you factoring in the 4++ from the Knight, because you actually only get half a glance per barge... and that's estimating with six full hits, which won't always be the case.