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The difference is that unlike most other squadrons the onager increases in survivability as there are more of them. Without Ap1/2 I am not as worried about spill over to the rest of the squad. Harder to kill in assault as well, and can lock a unit down in a pinch.

Also with the amount of assault available to the skitarii it should not happen

Edit: Getting two out of three crabs tomorrow, so excited. Have the 20 troopers that I would ever use. Just got to find some alternate weapons for the special ones......

Here is the skitarii detachment I am thinking of running, however with the release of the bikes I am seriously considering switching to plasma calivers. Since I will be podding mine in, the cost is not as big of a deal and they should kill enough to make their points back.

2x 5 vanguard with arc rifle, arc pistol, and omnispex(pods)

3x Onager Dunecrawlers - 2x neutron laser, 1x phosphor blaster

555 points

Brings some serious anti tank/elite infantry to my list. Also once again thinking about bikes the phosphor blaster is going to be money. Should be able to get one wound through (while also making them jink) and then everything else just lights them up(see previously mentioned calivers). Also there is something nice about a guaranteed 6 inch move, no dangerous, no difficult terrain tests, just move 6.

I welcome someone to charge an Onager Squadron. They can enjoy trying to brute force through 9 HP @ AV12 with WS3 and a 4++. If you've taken Cognis Manipulators, crunch a few enemy units along the way.

Onagers are a world apart from Russ Squadrons - with a WS to speak of, the ability to fight back (albeit not too effectively) and a saving throw.

Poly Ranger wrote:
9 vanguard with 2 plasma cavaliers
Inquisitor with tome of vetheric and combi plasma
Pod
Bs7 on drop

= 9.7 wounds average against tyranid t6 3+ mcs. Nice against a fex brood.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
That is after saves against the rad.

the problem with this is you have to use your docturna imperatives at the beginning of the movement phase, before deep strike. They will not be on the board at the time, and will not benefit from them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 sudojoe wrote:
As I sit here waiting for the glue to dry on my giant crabs of doom with magnets!

And without getting into the potential new eldar, I've been daydreaming of the gunline army again with these crabs.

Thinking of going with something like:

2 units of 3x onagers with icarus
Deredeo pattern Dreadnought
Sciaran battle tank
Fire raptor gunship with 2 storm talons
*mandantory master of the forge

all in the same list. It's a literal truckton of firepower but of course leaves the list kind of light on other things. What should I fill the rest of the army out with for 1850?
And should I drop something or other in that madness?

I think I'd feel like an ork with all that dakka lolol

I think master of the forge only allows one relic no? Can you take a fire raptor, sciaran, and a dreedeo?

Except doctrines just say units in your army with this rule, it has nothing to do with when they arrive or even if they are on the table, it is just a flat modifier until the start of your next turn

Yeah, it says, Eg. "all units in your army with the Doctrina imperatives special rule, add +1 to their balistic skill until the start of your next turn."

So it will apply to anyone of them. They deep strike on, and whatever their BS is, they add 1 to it.

 Leth wrote:


2x 5 vanguard with arc rifle, arc pistol, and omnispex(pods)

Nice. I like that you have the specials in order of importance too. If a person only has points for the pistol or the omni the pistol beats the omnispex in a pod list. An extra haywire shot is better than the cover modifier, if you had to pick one.

harkequin wrote:
Yeah, it says, Eg. "all units in your army with the Doctrina imperatives special rule, add +1 to their balistic skill until the start of your next turn."

So it will apply to anyone of them. They deep strike on, and whatever their BS is, they add 1 to it.

even if they are in reserve, they should still be in your army.

Super Newb wrote:

 Leth wrote:


2x 5 vanguard with arc rifle, arc pistol, and omnispex(pods)

Nice. I like that you have the specials in order of importance too. If a person only has points for the pistol or the omni the pistol beats the omnispex in a pod list. An extra haywire shot is better than the cover modifier, if you had to pick one.

Honestly I would take the omnispex before I would take the pistol. The main reason is that statistically IF they are getting a cover save the omnispex is better all around against all targets. In addition the better their cover save the more impact it has.

Someone has a 2+ cover, it now goes to a 3+ cover. That is DOUBLING the amount of damage that gets through. 3+ to 4+ 50% increase in number of wounds taken. So on and so forth. Its only at the worse cover saves where it becomes not worth it. a 5 to a 6 is only a 20% increase in wounds caused, same with haywire hits. Now as a per unit upgrade the omnispex gets better the more models you have, however with the high volume of fire from the skitarii guns unless you are on foot(in which case I would be 10 mans and take it anyway) you are gonna need the extra bodies.

While the extra shoot is nice and really will help get that third hull point, dont forget you still have the str 6 hit in addition to the haywire hit. Dont discount or forget that. I am seriously considering adding a few guys to each unit for the extra bodies, have to see if they are dying or not since I will have thunderwolves running up the gut.

Wait what? Going from four shots to five is a 25% increase in firepower. I'd take that before a cover save modifier. If the vehicle has no cover, a 6+ cover, a 5+ cover, that extra shot beats out the omnispex.

Shouldn't we go with what is the most common? That being no cover or limited cover saves.

You're right that most vehicles won't be in cover, so a haywire squad may not benefit so much from an omnispex unless they're shooting at jinkers (e.g. wave serpents)

A plasma squad on the other hand will often shoot at elite infantry to take advantage of AP2, so an omnispex seems mandatory there.

Super Newb wrote:
Wait what? Going from four shots to five is a 25% increase in firepower. I'd take that before a cover save modifier. If the vehicle has no cover, a 6+ cover, a 5+ cover, that extra shot beats out the omnispex.

Shouldn't we go with what is the most common? That being no cover or limited cover saves.

Its not a 25% increase in fire power, it is a % increase in amount of damage going through.

Lets say you fire 4 haywire shots, all 4 hit and cause a glance.

With a 2+ cover save 2/3 of a shot will get through
With a 3+ cover save 4/3 shots will get through
With a 4+ cover save 6/3 shots will get through
with a 5+ cover save 8/3 shots get through
with a 6+ Cover save 10/3 shots will get through.

So while the change between amounts getting through is consistent, the actual IMPACT of changing the saves is what changes. By reducing a 2+ to a 3+ you are causing twice as many wounds as you were before.

So most of us see the Synergy between taking a unit of Infiltrators and Rust Stalkers, but if points or models only allowed for taking a unit of one or the other, which one's do you take? I can see the argument for Rust stalkers because you get more haywire stuff, but I can also see the argument for Infiltrators due to the debuff. Thoughts on taking one or the other? Or is it one of each or nothing?

 ultimentra wrote:
So most of us see the Synergy between taking a unit of Infiltrators and Rust Stalkers, but if points or models only allowed for taking a unit of one or the other, which one's do you take? I can see the argument for Rust stalkers because you get more haywire stuff, but I can also see the argument for Infiltrators due to the debuff. Thoughts on taking one or the other? Or is it one of each or nothing?

Infiltrators. Better shooting weapon, better against Rear AV10 vehicles, still decent in combat, debuff aura.

If I just had one unit of Sicarians, though (as I do in this list), I'd be worried about dumping a single squad of Infiltrators in the enemy backfield unsupported. A single squad of Ruststalkers can hang out behind your main line of Skitarii or next to your Onagers as a counter-charge unit.

The extra haywire are also not nothing if you are limited on how many arc rifles you have (like if you only bought 2 boxes of infantry).

With some of the confirmations from eldar lluminogen got more important IMO.

We need stuff to be killed when we shoot, not to be able to jink and live to fight another day. By lowering cover saves it makes the shots count or forces them to stay in cover.

 Leth wrote:

We need stuff to be killed when we shoot, not to be able to jink and live to fight another day. By lowering cover saves it makes the shots count or forces them to stay in cover.

True but we were talking about arc pistol versus omnispex if points are tight and you could only pick one. Let's see some math. Real math, not the only slightly helpful stuff you wrote a few posts back. 4 shots with -1 to cover save versus 5 shots with no cover modifier. Let's see that with no cover, 6+ cover, 5+ cover and then we can talk some more.

Hey, I cant do all of it but fine


With a 3+ cover save 4/3 shots will get through
With a 4+ cover save 6/3 shots will get through
with a 5+ cover save 8/3 shots get through
with a 6+ Cover save 10/3 shots will get through.
With No save 12/3 shots will get through

Lets say you fire 5 haywire shots, all 5 hit and cause a glance.

With a 2+ cover save 5/6 of a shot will get through vrs 4/3
With a 3+ cover save 5/3 shots will get through vrs 6/3
With a 4+ cover save 5/2 shots will get through vrs 8/3
with a 5+ cover save 10/3 shots get through vrs 10/3
with a 6+ Cover save 25/6 shots will get through. vrs 12/3

So at a 5+ base cover save they become even, however at lower cover saves the 4 shots -cover wins out

I think the dragoons are probably a good option. Problem with taking the illuminogen weapons is that you can take those cover saves and jink saves against them, and even then you have to WOUND.

Can't take cover from Tau markerlights though, bs IMO. The points invested to take enough luminogen will take up points that could be units.

My strategy- decline games against Eldar. Hide all Eldar threads, do not reply to Eldar posts, etc. etc. however the hell that meme goes.

It honestly depends on the list, and what ally (if any) are being used.

If I'm taking SW or BA, I'd grab Infiltrators to debuff units for my melee deathstars to pummel. If I'm allying with a Shooty army, I'd take ruststalkers to add a melee element.

So I have purchased quite a lot of Skitarii miniatures recently and in my gaming circle there is a great variety of armies to face with no real WAAC or TFG gamers... so my question is with 2 Onagers and 4 Ironstriders what is best for all comers?

Onagers I am thinking 1 Neutron Laser and 1 Icarus Array, but do the other 2 options perhaps have a place?

And as for the Ironstriders do I just go all out Dragoons as the Ballistarii does seem like a far weaker (and more expensive) choice. Anti armour seems far more suited to the Onager and troops rather than the limited Cognis weapons that the Ballistarii can bring to bear.

I wouldn't dismiss Ballistarii: 55 points for twin-linked Autocannon that Snap Shot at BS:2 is a fair number of rounds on target, even against fliers. The Icarus Array is awesome but arguably overkill unless your opponent brings a lot of fliers or is Eldar (because Skimmers). And remember that Onagers want to be in squadrons to maximize their force field saves, and a squadron must all fire at the same target, so you probably want all your Onagers to have the same gun.

Very fair points there. I may well go 2 Balistarii and 2 Dragoons, but for the extra 20 points are Lascannons a step too far?

Good point on the Onagers too, so maybe the vanilla Eradication Beamer does have a place but that is dependent upon whether you want to sit back with them or not. Thanks for the advice, I look forward to seeing more general tactics pop up on this thread.

I disagree the Icarus is overkill. A single storm raven largely won't care about it for starters. 3 on the other hand will give it pause. AV 10 or 11 yes, it's a solid weapon array alone as well as against T5. T6 or AV12+? You need 2 or 3 to make a serious dent

Picked up my first squad of Skitarii today.
Allied them with my Tau and played a game against GK. My Ranger squad's Arquebus got a kill a turn, and my Vanguard took 2 hull points off a Land Raider before being AssCanned.

Overkill in the sense that it's 125 points that can only shoot fliers and skimmers. Depends on your meta, but I'd rather spend the points on a larger number of weapons that can hit ground targets and take snapshots (especially BS:2 Cognis snapshots) at fliers as needed.

I played a proxy game recently against a local ultra-marine player, and it went kinda pearshaped for me. The slowness of skitarii really hurts for footslogging units, and a single ironclad dread was the worst unit to fight against. Dropped down and roasted my warlord squad!


I do think that skitarii need some transports.

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
I played a proxy game recently against a local ultra-marine player, and it went kinda pearshaped for me. The slowness of skitarii really hurts for footslogging units, and a single ironclad dread was the worst unit to fight against. Dropped down and roasted my warlord squad!


I do think that skitarii need some transports.

You do know Infiltrators, Ruststalkers, Dragoons, Balistarii and Onagers add 3" to their move, run and charge, right?

The only unit that suffers from being slow are vanguards.

I didn't know onagers did, but from what I played I used mostly 3 squads of vanguard. They shot a lot but still got wrecked by heavy flamers and a storm talon.

 Verviedi wrote:
Picked up my first squad of Skitarii today.
Allied them with my Tau and played a game against GK. My Ranger squad's Arquebus got a kill a turn, and my Vanguard took 2 hull points off a Land Raider before being AssCanned.

How many Arquebus's and were the precision kills?

I would expect 3 of them to kill a meq a turn, but that isnt terribly point efficient and if you dont get to pick the model removed it's very lackluster.