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 Mr Morden wrote:
sirlynchmob wrote:
 Kap'n Krump wrote:
It doesn't matter a whole big bunch now that GoT officially wussed out and rez'd a major character (his resurrection was as disappointing as it was inevitable), but I was confused about this:


I always figured Jon had to die to be released from his vows to the nights watch. He'd never abandon his vows voluntarily, but now, he stood his watch and death released him. Now he is free to lead the wildlings to retake winterfell and become Melisandre's knight with a flaming sword.


Soooo Abandon the wall then................... didn't he previously think it was important or something.......to defend the realm.........

Well it will likely amuse the undead if the humans are fighting amongst themselves, that's if they ever arrive.

Maybe that's the grand plan - wonder aimlessly in the snow until most of the human fighting forces are exhausted or dead and then maybe wonder over the wall / raise the corpses.



No, retake winterfell like he wanted to and the reason he got stabbed. He wanted to save his sister and winterfell with a army of wildlings, which was unthinkable to the knights watch. With winterfell retaken he unifies the north to rally the entire north to protect the wall. Then sansa get's the castle and becomes the ice queen. Now jon would have the north, the wildlings, and the wall to hold off the army of the dead. and maybe other things to come and help

 
   
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Yeah, I'm actually glad that they just said f-it to Martin. HBO isn't a network that likes to run shows for 8-10 seasons. They tend to wrap most stuff up in 6 or so nowadays. So without Martin and his constant adds to the story they can just finish the story the best way they can with the ending and high points that Martin gave them when he signed on.

And yes, Tyrion's line was awesome. But so was that whole scene from Dinklage. You could feel his childlike wonder and joy over his fear in his voice and movement.

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sirlynchmob wrote:
 Mr Morden wrote:
sirlynchmob wrote:
 Kap'n Krump wrote:
It doesn't matter a whole big bunch now that GoT officially wussed out and rez'd a major character (his resurrection was as disappointing as it was inevitable), but I was confused about this:


I always figured Jon had to die to be released from his vows to the nights watch. He'd never abandon his vows voluntarily, but now, he stood his watch and death released him. Now he is free to lead the wildlings to retake winterfell and become Melisandre's knight with a flaming sword.


Soooo Abandon the wall then................... didn't he previously think it was important or something.......to defend the realm.........

Well it will likely amuse the undead if the humans are fighting amongst themselves, that's if they ever arrive.

Maybe that's the grand plan - wonder aimlessly in the snow until most of the human fighting forces are exhausted or dead and then maybe wonder over the wall / raise the corpses.



No, retake winterfell like he wanted to and the reason he got stabbed. He wanted to save his sister and winterfell with a army of wildlings, which was unthinkable to the knights watch. With winterfell retaken he unifies the north to rally the entire north to protect the wall. Then sansa get's the castle and becomes the ice queen. Now jon would have the north, the wildlings, and the wall to hold off the army of the dead. and maybe other things to come and help

Retaking the North isn't that easy a task, especially for a bastard son of a disgraced Lord, he'll get no help from the Karstarks, & the Umbers & Manderlys are an unknown at this point
[Some Book Spoilers not in the show yet]
Spoiler:

Except Resurrection isn't a free pass to skip out on his vows, look at Lady Stoneheart & Beric Dondarrion, they lost huge chunks of their personalities after each Resurrection
GRRM said he hates Gandalfs return
I once again always felt like Gandalf should have stayed dead.... And then he comes back as Gandalf the White, and if anything he's sort of improved. I never liked Gandalf the White as much as Gandalf the Grey, and I never liked him coming back. I think it would have been an even stronger story if Tolkien had left him dead.





Automatically Appended Next Post:
Overall I liked the episode more than the first,
We get some good KL stuff & Ser Robert gets to show off his strength (Except how the Sand snakes have miraculously escaped, they must have a TARDIS or something with them)
The Brann flashback shows up how weirwood.net can work with Brynden controlling it & Brann's going to learn how
Spoiler:
And the preview for Episode 3 has a Tower fo Joy flashback so prepare for that

Not a fan of Ser Davos's 180 turn on his biews of Melisandre/Black Magic but whatever, he needed to come back

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/05/03 14:00:27


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I'd argue that retaking the North wouldn't be hard at all for Jon, especially if Sansa shows up. The north massively respects the Lord Commander. The Umbers are staunch Stark men and will flock to their lady. The Manderlys (if it's anything like the books) are just waiting for a chance to smash the Boltons and were oddly loyal and powerful for a house that seemed a joke in the early books.

That leaves essentially the Karstarks and the Boltons. But the north is much larger than 2 houses. Starks led the north a long time. They raised their heads in rebellion for two generations of Starks and if not for some betrayal would have been successful in both rebellions.

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Maybe it won't be so hard if the Great Northern Conspiracy really is a thing. The casting calls for this season included listings that *looked* like they were for Smalljon Umber and Lord Manderly. We're almost certainly getting a lot of action in the north this season.

Funny how a little while ago Harrington was denying his involvement in season 6...now the word is that Jon Snow has more screen time than any other character this season.

The scene with Tyrion and the dragons was...interesting. It certainly looks like they're laying some groundwork for a future revelation about Tyrion.

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If it's like the books then the Umbers are split
They also lost the rebellion because of the Lannisters who have the Tyrells (who's forces were not nearly as beaten up as the Lannister, Greyjoy or northern armies)

EDIT: Although i would like to see the Manderlys bake some pies

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/03 14:23:53


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sirlynchmob wrote:
 Mr Morden wrote:
sirlynchmob wrote:
 Kap'n Krump wrote:
It doesn't matter a whole big bunch now that GoT officially wussed out and rez'd a major character (his resurrection was as disappointing as it was inevitable), but I was confused about this:


I always figured Jon had to die to be released from his vows to the nights watch. He'd never abandon his vows voluntarily, but now, he stood his watch and death released him. Now he is free to lead the wildlings to retake winterfell and become Melisandre's knight with a flaming sword.


Soooo Abandon the wall then................... didn't he previously think it was important or something.......to defend the realm.........

Well it will likely amuse the undead if the humans are fighting amongst themselves, that's if they ever arrive.

Maybe that's the grand plan - wonder aimlessly in the snow until most of the human fighting forces are exhausted or dead and then maybe wonder over the wall / raise the corpses.


No, retake winterfell like he wanted to and the reason he got stabbed. He wanted to save his sister and winterfell with a army of wildlings, which was unthinkable to the knights watch. With winterfell retaken he unifies the north to rally the entire north to protect the wall. Then sansa get's the castle and becomes the ice queen. Now jon would have the north, the wildlings, and the wall to hold off the army of the dead. and maybe other things to come and help


He could have done that anyway - there were what 30-40 guys on the wall - they were and are completely irrelevant in every sense of the word - he should have just got on with it - but he made the same mistake Rob did - let his honour be the be all and end all - that's why innocent people die......

The show is (understandably) vague on how many people are on each side, but the Bolton's and Karstarks seems to have a reasonable force _ I assume its their forces driving the Iron born back into the sea. Not sure how many of the other Houses will be welcoming a large horde of Wildlings however who will all want land.......but then deaths may be so high after the failed war in the South they need them to rebuild.

Again the show (and the books) are vague on who knows about the army of the dead and also who is taking it seriously beyond the few that have seen it...............that could unite all the North including the Boltons etc the living against the dead - at least until the danger is over......

When Kal Drago came back he was not all there - be amusing if Jon is the same..................

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Khal Drogo never got resurrected... That was an illusion by the Warlocks of Qarth.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/03 14:29:06


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 angelofvengeance wrote:
Khal Drogo never got resurrected... That was an illusion by the Warlocks of Qarth.


Really - hmmm, when was this shown in the Show? The whole bringing him back, only to kill him was kinda important to Dany's story........?

Also they were only just getting magic back, hence they were desperate to get hold of Dany and her Dragons........and now they are all dead.

Ah my mistake I was mis remembering I though the witch brought him back but he was dying not dead.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/03 14:45:03


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I think the 'first' resurrection, you're OK.

With each one after that, increasingly 'not so much'. Well, maybe.

From what little we know about the process!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/03 14:42:15


   
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Except that the Wildlings already have land. They have the Gift. It was given to them last season by Jon and since it's Nightwatch land no one in the north will care.

Either way I'm excited to see stuff moving forward in the north.

As for the Ice Zombies the wall has to break before they can get past it. They are in no hurry. They also need full winter to set in within the realms. The limited daylight and snowing seem like requirements to them.

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How next next episode will go
Davros: Jon, your alive, our prayers worked.
*Jon Slaps him*
Jon:You bastard, I was in heaven. With mom, dad, and YGRITTE.
Davros: But.....But......We need to defend the realm...
Jon: Screw the realm. I was in the middle of getting laid when you brought me back.

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 hotsauceman1 wrote:
How next next episode will go
Davros: Jon, your alive, our prayers worked.
*Jon Slaps him*
Jon:You bastard, I was in heaven. With mom, dad, and YGRITTE.
Davros: But.....But......We need to defend the realm...
Jon: Screw the realm. I was in the middle of getting laid when you brought me back.


Ladies and Gentlemen - the generational divide!

   
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Also, anyone else think that when Bolton stabbed his father, it was shot in a way to make you think that his father stabbed him?

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I did. And I thought the iron lord guy chucked his brother over too.

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By 1-irt: Still as long as Hissy keeps showing up this is one of the most entertaining threads ever.

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That was, obviously, intentional.

Though really the 'question' remained unanswered for all of about 10 seconds in each case!

   
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Wasn't that also confirmation of something suspected in the books? IIRC, in the books it's just announced that Balon fell off a bridge in the storm, then Euron (suspiciously) shows up the next day.


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 gorgon wrote:
Wasn't that also confirmation of something suspected in the books? IIRC, in the books it's just announced that Balon fell off a bridge in the storm, then Euron (suspiciously) shows up the next day.



Theories were (as far as I've seen):
Euron Did it
Jason Mallister Did it
Euron paid a Faceless man to do it (possibly with a dragon egg he found in Valyria)
He just fell, it was a storm & he was old

Obviously book-wise they're still valid but show went with Euron did it

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Was also interesting that they showed an undamaged Hodor, Bran specifically asks what happened to him, and the question is left hanging.

There are theories about that too. One is that...

Spoiler:
Hodor is the name of the Great Other. Might seem like an out-of-the-blue idea, but there's a Norse god of darkness with a very similar name.

The theory is that Hodor...er, Walder...er, Wylis on the show...may have encountered something in the crypts of Winterfell, was severely traumatized, and now (in a twist) can only say the name of the being whose name cannot be spoken.

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 Alpharius wrote:
 hotsauceman1 wrote:
How next next episode will go
Davros: Jon, your alive, our prayers worked.
*Jon Slaps him*
Jon:You bastard, I was in heaven. With mom, dad, and YGRITTE.
Davros: But.....But......We need to defend the realm...
Jon: Screw the realm. I was in the middle of getting laid when you brought me back.


Ladies and Gentlemen - the generational divide!

Im confused, I know this isnt an insult, but what do you mean by this?

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 hotsauceman1 wrote:
 Alpharius wrote:
 hotsauceman1 wrote:
How next next episode will go
Davros: Jon, your alive, our prayers worked.
*Jon Slaps him*
Jon:You bastard, I was in heaven. With mom, dad, and YGRITTE.
Davros: But.....But......We need to defend the realm...
Jon: Screw the realm. I was in the middle of getting laid when you brought me back.


Ladies and Gentlemen - the generational divide!

Im confused, I know this isnt an insult, but what do you mean by this?


I didn't get it either............. and I am old :(

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/03 22:49:06


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The divide is even great than I had thought!

Anyway...

http://christiandaily.com/article/the-winds-of-winter-news-sixth-book-in-the-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-series-may-see-release-in-may-new-heroes-abound/51794.htm

Fans have been dying while waiting for official news regarding the release of "The Winds of Winter," the sixth installment in the book fantasy series, "A Song of Ice and Fire" by George R.R. Martin. It's taken four years for the writer to finish the book, and now that the HBO television adaptation "Game of Thrones" season 6 has finally premiered, it seems like "The Winds of Winter" has officially been beat in the race to get released before the TV adaptation does.

However, it looks like Martin doesn't want to keep his fans waiting much longer. According to reports, "The Winds of Winter" is going to catch up and see its release in May.

According to reports, many are speculating that the sixth book installation in the "A Song of Ice and Fire" fantasy book series will finally see its release in the early part of 2016. Many fans hope that the book will finally come out in May after Martin has been expressing how he wishes for the book's quick publication.

In an interview earlier in April, the fantasy writer talked about how he felt about the delay in "The Winds of Winter" publication.

"I wish it was out now. Maybe I'm being overly optimistic about how quickly I can finish. But I canceled two convention appearances, I'm turning down a lot more interviews—anything I can do to clear my decks and get this done," Martin said.

Meanwhile, rumors that "The Winds of Winter" has a different set of heroes compared to HBO's "Game of Thrones" have started making their rounds across the internet. Many characters which have died in the TV adaptation "Game of Thrones," have remained alive in Martin's books, and it looks like they may play a significant part in "The Winds of Winter" instead of Jon Snow or Daenerys Targaryen.

One of these characters is Stannis Baratheon, the elder brother of the drunk King Robert Baratheon. Another character that would stand out in the sixth book in the "A Song of Ice and Fire" series would be none other than the cunning and witty Tyrion Lannister himself.


I want to believe, but...

I kind of actually think the TV series will end up being a better story than the books anyway...

Also:




   
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 gorgon wrote:
Was also interesting that they showed an undamaged Hodor, Bran specifically asks what happened to him, and the question is left hanging.

There are theories about that too. One is that...

Spoiler:
Hodor is the name of the Great Other. Might seem like an out-of-the-blue idea, but there's a Norse god of darkness with a very similar name.

The theory is that Hodor...er, Walder...er, Wylis on the show...may have encountered something in the crypts of Winterfell, was severely traumatized, and now (in a twist) can only say the name of the being whose name cannot be spoken.



I quite like :

http://uproxx.com/tv/hodor-is-a-horse-theory/2/

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I kind of actually think the TV series will end up being a better story than the books anyway...


Indeed - Even if he does manage to complete one book this year - which is unlikely despite the stated desire by the author to do so, I think it will continue to be a sprawling mess, increasingly full of new and frankly uninspiring characters whilst actual plot progression is deliberately avoided.

He said a big, revealing twist is in store for a longtime character, which is not in the original plan. He teased, "This is going to drive your reader crazy but I love it."


Hmm, again seems like he is just doing this stuff to troll the readers................

I think the show will finish, I honestly do not think the books will be.............and it may be that another author is required to take up the reins to put it back together in a decade or two.........

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/04 11:46:51


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Agreed!

I can see a "Wheel of Time" situation happening here too...

   
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 Alpharius wrote:
Agreed!

I can see a "Wheel of Time" situation happening here too...


How did that work out? - I must admit I did not get past the first book.

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 Mr Morden wrote:
 Alpharius wrote:
Agreed!

I can see a "Wheel of Time" situation happening here too...


How did that work out? - I must admit I did not get past the first book.


Very well IMO.

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I *think* he said at one point that he could need another book past A Dream of Spring.

At this point, it's probably one of those things where he's afraid he's going to expire if he finishes it. Even as the readers are afraid he's going to expire before he finishes it.

That Hodor theory is funny. Certainly a lot lighter than the ones drawing connections to the name of the Norse god.

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Gorgon - I've read that too...GRRM is threatening needing a Book 8.

No way he lives long enough to finish that one!

Maybe?

He'd need another 12 years!

   
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12 years is being kind.....I'm just happy I'll get an ending out of the show. I almost want him to just throw up his hands and hand it off to someone like Sanderson to finish off. Granted Sanderson is on his way to working on his own epic fantasy series and so far it feels much better than the entire GoT so far if not just the first 3 books of GoT. And I think the direction it's going it's actually going to be better than GoT by a significant margin.

Either way I won't be buying the next book in the GoT series. You might actually have to pay me to read it if I ever got it for free.

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