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who won the war between eldar and necrons?
In the eldar codex it suggests the eldar were wining so the necrons went into hibernation till the eldar were weakened.

In the Necron codex it pretty much says the opposite is their a definitive answer or is it just a case of he said she said.

The Necrons went to sleep to avoid the rise of the Eldar and the Old Ones' other engineered races. The Eldar, however, only recall the War In Heaven as a mythical conflict between their gods.

My theory is that the War In Heaven was in fact a series of massive warp storms that swept through the galaxy. The Necrons, having no defense against the warp, and under attack from the Orcs and nascent Eldar, went into hibernation to wait out the storms and hope that the galaxy would be ripe for the conquering when they woke up. We all know how well that turned out.

Eldar "won", but everyone really lost given that it created daemons and the warp.

Though really it was mostly the Krorks/Orks, not the Eldar.

Assuming the War in Heaven is actually over....

The Eldar won because the Necrons retreated into hibernation. Whether they were losing or not when they did it. Eldar inherited all the keys to the galaxy at that point.

Eldar had C'tan killing tech with the Talismans of Vaul (which evidently had the biggest distortion guns ever on them). So that would have been a great threat to the source of Necron power. Even if the Necrons were winning at the time, it would have been a great idea to back away from such weapons until they can be dealt with.

I admit I haven't read the Necron fluff since the rise of the Dynasties, but I hear they are behind hiding all the talismans.

Eldar weren't really fighting. The necrons were fighting against the old ones specifically, and the old ones used mostly the kroaks/orks to fight back. Now the eldar did fight a bit, but they were to ineffective of a fighting force which is why the orks were engineered. In the end, things seemed to mostly end up with the necrons/c'tan winning, the necrons imprisoning the c'tan, and then the crons going into hibernation in fear that the eldar could defeat them now that the c'tan weren't running around.
That seems to be what happened according to the necron codex, the warp factored in more with the fall of the c'tan (as well as the whole cannabilism thing)
So in the end, Eldar were losing (and quite badly) but then pretty much won by default, technically (really, ever one lost thanks to the warp)

It depends.

The Eldar and the Old Ones were defeated by the Necrons and C'tan in straight warfare. So in that sense the Necrons displayed their prowess.

But the Necrons retreated into hibernation rather than face an resurgent and ascendant Eldar Empire after the Necrons had lost so much in their wars against the Old Ones and C'tan. So in that regard the Eldar won.

And then there's the question of if the war ever really finished. Certainly that would be the case from the Eldar's point of view, since many, many, many, many generations have passed. To the Necrons however, not much time has gone by at all, and the same individuals who prosecuted the War in Heaven are still around, while their ancient enemies lie dead, and their descendants are pitifully broken.

Regardless, the ultimate victor will be decided in the future rather than the past.

The recon in the Necron 5th Ed codex really made a mess of the background. The Necrons,after beating the Old Ones then betraying the C'tan found themselves too weak to over come the defeated newly created Eldar, so they decided to give up for 60 million years & hope the Eldar died out.
It makes you think what level of technology & population newly created Eldar race had at the time that could scare the crons into going to sleep for 60 million years. It must of been impressive to match what the necrons have been shown to have then & still have now but not good enough to help the Old Ones win.

Personally I stick to the old Necron £ed fluff. C'tan's beat the Old Ones, warp turns into the nightmare we all know & love, the C'tan can't deal with the Enslavers eating all their food so go into stasis til everything calms down. The Kork & Eldar somehow survive & manage to repopulate the Galaxy.

Saying the Eldar won the War in Heaven is like saying a child won a fight with a murderer simply because after breaking into his house, shooting his mother and father through the head, the thug took off in a car instead of finishing off the kid.

Ok, why are we ignoring the part in the eldar codex where they specifically state they weren't even worried about the necrons as an opponent during the war? Hell, they remember when the war actually started and the old ones ASKED for help. Necron propaganda calls the conflict the war in heaven, that isn't what the eldar refer to.

The old ones didn't create the eldar, they were not their gods, they were allies and the old ones showed them how the web way worked that is all. The eldar gods exist, the eldar cannot be confused as to what they call the war in heaven because they can just ask the Harlequin who can just ask Cegorach.

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
Ok, why are we ignoring the part in the eldar codex where they specifically state they weren't even worried about the necrons as an opponent during the war? Hell, they remember when the war actually started and the old ones ASKED for help. Necron propaganda calls the conflict the war in heaven, that isn't what the eldar refer to.

The old ones didn't create the eldar, they were not their gods, they were allies and the old ones showed them how the web way worked that is all. The eldar gods exist, the eldar cannot be confused as to what they call the war in heaven because they can just ask the Harlequin who can just ask Cegorach.

I'm assuming we are ignoring it because it's absurd to think such passages would exists. From what I've read so far, GW rarely bothered to change old fluff, they either handwave/ignore the ones inconvenient to the current trend of the story or outright copypaste them into the new codexes/codice (with the exception of the Newcrons and 2nd Edition). Whenever a person write something like this is in the codex, more often then not it's just misinterpretations. Either way, citation needed.

Page 7 4th paragraph down on the left

"Even when the galaxy was young there were upstart races seeking to gouge out petty empires of their own, and the eldar waged war against the sprawling Necron dynasties that damaged dozens of star systems and cost trillions of lives.... Even the greatest of their wars, known in the mythic cycles as the war in heaven did not humble them."

In this passage the two are listed separately. The old ones cannot be representative of the eldar gods, because the war was between the gods and the eldar know what the Necron and old ones are.

I will also note that in the CURRENT Necron codex that the eldar are listed only as an ally to the old ones. Not some sort of purpose bred weapon for them.

That's what I have right now.

You guys are also missing an important fact of why they went to sleep: rebuilding. The galaxy was so damaged from the War in Heaven, that Necrons (being weakened from the war, obviously) wanted to not only not fight another war with Eldar (regardless of how powerful they were or weren't, they didn't see a point in fighting another war so quickly) but they also wanted to let the galaxy heal. And thus, the went to sleep, and the Last Silent King went into exile, to one day return and reawaken the Necrons to undo the Living Metal curse.

So, in essence, The Necrons and Eldar never truly fought. The Necrons won the War in Heaven, and went to sleep.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
Page 7 4th paragraph down on the left

"Even when the galaxy was young there were upstart races seeking to gouge out petty empires of their own, and the eldar waged war against the sprawling Necron dynasties that damaged dozens of star systems and cost trillions of lives.... Even the greatest of their wars, known in the mythic cycles as the war in heaven did not humble them."

In this passage the two are listed separately. The old ones cannot be representative of the eldar gods, because the war was between the gods and the eldar know what the Necron and old ones are.

I will also note that in the CURRENT Necron codex that the eldar are listed only as an ally to the old ones. Not some sort of purpose bred weapon for them.

That's what I have right now.

The new codex also doesn't go into much detail as far as the War in Heaven is concerned.

 lcmiracle wrote:

I'm assuming we are ignoring it because it's absurd to think such passages would exists.

Odd considering how much of the Necron fluff consists of absurdities just like the one you quoted.

The war is still ongoing, isn't it?

I was under the impression that the Necrons went to sleep becasue the enslavers had shown up and were messing everything up, and the necrons were like "They can't eat us, and we are now immortal, so lets just sleep this galactic hangover off"

Weary from fighting 2 wars against god-like beings the Silent King prepares to fight some poncy space elves.

"Wait, I have seen the future, let's take a long nap," Orikan says.

"Huh."

"I've seen the future, the Eldar are the single most incompetent race in the galaxy, if we go to sleep they won't be able to find us and they'll end up destroying their own empire."

"Really?"

"Yeah, they seem to screw up everything they do, as if it's some sort of running joke that the most arrogant faction is the biggest bunch of screw ups."

"You're breaking the fourth wall Orikan."

"I know, I also possess the ability to see beyond the fourth wall."

"...just get in the Tomb."

Nixon wins.

Nixon always wins.

Aroooooo.

OK, as an eldar player, that was exceptionally funny! Have an exalt sir!

The eldar speak at length about the war in heaven, it is the conflict between Vaul and Khaine. The Necron codex (thankfully) no longer claim that their war with the old ones and their allies are what the Eldar call the "war in heaven" they just call it the war in heaven. Both races now have a war in heaven. They aren't the same thing, just similar naming conventions.

It always annoyed me that the Necrons claimed to know more about Eldar nomenclature and history than the Eldar themselves.

Yes it is annoying that there are two 'War in Heaven's', the Necron 'THE War in Heaven' & the Eldar 'War In Heaven' that both relate to different battles & time frames. More incompetents & inconstancy from GW.

As for who won the war between the Eldar & the Necrons it seems the fight is still ongoing but I'd say its 1-0 to the Eldar as they did force the crons to hide for 60 millions years, according to the 5th Ed Necron Codex.

who won the war between eldar and necrons?

The Imperium of Man

 Nakor The BlueRider wrote:
Yes it is annoying that there are two 'War in Heaven's', the Necron 'THE War in Heaven' & the Eldar 'War In Heaven' that both relate to different battles & time frames. More incompetents & inconstancy from GW.

http://web.archive.org/web/20080406181835/http://uk.games-workshop.com/necrons/eldar-mythology/

This version seems to be an amalgamation of the two as it mentions the lifeless sword that was created.

The version in Liber Chaotica also mentions the war in heaven against the silver host if I recall, will have to dig it out.

I guess the original telling was under the Tears of Isha here?

http://web.archive.org/web/20120504210049/http://www.gamehobby.net/subject_indexes/subject_wh40k_eldar.html

 Wyzilla wrote:
Saying the Eldar won the War in Heaven is like saying a child won a fight with a murderer simply because after breaking into his house, shooting his mother and father through the head, the thug took off in a car instead of finishing off the kid.

I like this. Exalted

 Wyzilla wrote:
Saying the Eldar won the War in Heaven is like saying a child won a fight with a murderer simply because after breaking into his house, shooting his mother and father through the head, the thug took off in a car instead of finishing off the kid.

This would be a victory for the "kid" because he had a gun too and the "thug" ran off in a car because he knew he couldn't beat the "kid"

Let's not act like the eldar weren't a viable threat, the destroyed a significant number of necrons before and after the sleep.

I find it hard to believe that there are two War In Heavens. That just doesn't make sense. I haven't read the fluff for Eldar in particular, but could it be relating to the same event, yet they don't recall quite as much from it?

Why wouldn't the Eldar forget the names of those they fought 60-some million years ago?

The Craftworld Eldar are the hinterland hicks, Young Earthers, ChemTrail conspiracy theorists and Westboro Baptists of their previous civilization. The Eldar, as we know them in 40K, are not representative of Eldar culture throughout history! It would be like having Fred Phelps stand in as a representative for all Americans.

Hell, only one Craftworld, Iyanden, even remembers that they're supposed to be fighting the Necrons in the first place! So it would not surprise me that the Eldar would forget what the War in Heaven was truly about and, instead, turn it into myths and morality stories. It very much seems to be in keeping with the Eldar way.

I think it is being taken from two different perspectives. The necron account is comprise of cold logical facts... as that is what they typically deal with. The eldar account is steeped in mysticism and allegory.
IIRC, the gods were separated from the eldar because Asurian said so. So they could have interpreted the conflict through a mythological perspective. They could have seen the necron’s and by extension the c'tan as a manifestation of Khaine’s wrath, and seeing the eldar being victories as a manifestation of Vaul's response? idk mysticism and allegory get weird real fast.
I know the Eldar gods were real warp entities, but that doesn’t mean the Eldar wouldn’t have seen real events in allegorical terms.
60 million years is a really long time, far longer than we have a frame of reference for as humans… we just cannot grasp the sheer volume of time that is. Events that have happened in our history that occurred 30 thousand years ago (approximately the beginning of recorded history) are interpreted as allegory and myth to us (Gilgamesh, the legends of Babylon, and other Mesopotamian areas). 60 million is two thousand times longer… like the entire span of recorded human history multiplied by two thousand. So I’m sure that most if not all, of the events surrounding the war in heaven are not accurately and factually represented in elder history, but have turned into myth and legend.

 Psienesis wrote:
Why wouldn't the Eldar forget the names of those they fought 60-some million years ago?

The Craftworld Eldar are the hinterland hicks, Young Earthers, ChemTrail conspiracy theorists and Westboro Baptists of their previous civilization. The Eldar, as we know them in 40K, are not representative of Eldar culture throughout history! It would be like having Fred Phelps stand in as a representative for all Americans.

Hell, only one Craftworld, Iyanden, even remembers that they're supposed to be fighting the Necrons in the first place! So it would not surprise me that the Eldar would forget what the War in Heaven was truly about and, instead, turn it into myths and morality stories. It very much seems to be in keeping with the Eldar way.

I think its the Alatoic who are the Necron-wary ones aren't they?

*squinty eyes*

You might be right. Don't have the book here in front of me... point is, there's one, just one, Craftworld that actually remembers who the Necrons are and that the Eldar are supposed to be fighting them.

... and now that you mention it, I believe you're right, I think it is Altaioc.

 Psienesis wrote:
*squinty eyes*

You might be right. Don't have the book here in front of me... point is, there's one, just one, Craftworld that actually remembers who the Necrons are and that the Eldar are supposed to be fighting them.

... and now that you mention it, I believe you're right, I think it is Altaioc.

Yes, that's why they have so many Rangers. It's their job to look for signs the Necrons are rising but nobody believes them. The Alatoic are like those guys who insist the Zombie apocalypse is really coming and we all need to be prepared.

 Psienesis wrote:
Why wouldn't the Eldar forget the names of those they fought 60-some million years ago?

The Craftworld Eldar are the hinterland hicks, Young Earthers, ChemTrail conspiracy theorists and Westboro Baptists of their previous civilization. The Eldar, as we know them in 40K, are not representative of Eldar culture throughout history! It would be like having Fred Phelps stand in as a representative for all Americans.

.

This is an amazing analogy. So not to get too off topic, and I can start a new thread about it if i need to, I would be every interested to learn about the average eldar pre-fall. Was it more like star trek (Utopian dystopia)or more like Tolkien Elves (a harmoneous society built on mutual giving, like perfect socialism that actually works)