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Okay I see why they didn't buff units. Our formations are flippin insane. Even the weakest of them is seriously game table worthy.

Edit
I am happy to be wrong. All those telling me to clam down were right. So whew. I like it when I'm wrong sometimes. Feel free to sig this. Your not going to find too many people as amazing as myself out there who admit they were wrong.

 Vineheart01 wrote:

Also the sig system has always been reroll to hit rather than twinlinked. Quite frankly im not sure why its emphasized so much when its not 'to hits of 1' - far as i know its literally the same as twinlinked.

About the only difference is that template weapons that are twin linked reroll failed to wound. They do not get this benefit from reroll to hit abilities.

Enjoying that humble pie mate?

 Gamgee wrote:
Your not going to find too many people as amazing as myself out there who admit they were wrong.

Apparently not. lol

Wait, so Signature Systems stayed the same and didn't turn into Relics?

Buffmander is still legal? Well dayum. My SW friend will surely be restarting his Tau.

Also the Stormsurge now is worthy of its title. Str D Ap 1 missiles with expenditure of 1ML. And GW has said it can fire them all at once if it wants since each missile is its own weapon.

That's a lot of D. Like scary levels. With two of them in one alpha strike that's like 8 D Shots coming your way in one round at BS 3-5. If you rush forward with the D Cannon as well? My god.

I wouldn't worry about the target locks being applied to the overall rule. It's probably something for YMDC but I read it that you have to shoot at that target from the translation. Meaning if you shoot somewhere else you don't get the bonuses and using the target locks is shooting somewhere else.

Granted I could be wrong and we'll have to wait on the English version for full effect but that's the way I'd read it now. And I'm pretty certain the way more GT's would rule it for events. If you could basically link all the buffmander powers to your entire army and just 5pts more per model to still shoot whatever you wanted it'd be insane.

LOL i told my friend that wanted to start an IG foot army with a Clone Army theme about the airbursters. He immediately went "i kinda dont wanna do my clone army now..." rofl.

I mean, Bursts have higher strength and ignores cover on AP5 doesnt usually mean much, but a Large Blast will on average hit as many models as Bursts have shots and sometimes more. Vastly worth the lost of 1 strength and gain the ability to snipe things out with barrage.

The weapon was only terrible in the current dex because you could only get 1 and it had to be a commander. I actually forgot it existed until i saw it on the stormsurge profile.

 Gamgee wrote:
Okay I see why they didn't buff units. Our formations are flippin insane. Even the weakest of them is seriously game table worthy.

Edit
I am happy to be wrong. All those telling me to clam down were right. So whew. I like it when I'm wrong sometimes. Feel free to sig this. Your not going to find too many people as amazing as myself out there who admit they were wrong.

Good on you mate, it takes a lot of courage to admit to that.

On other forums I see the general consensus on the Stormsurge has taken an about-face. Generally it was already a 50-50 split on whether it was good or weak, now pretty much everyone is being drawn in by the Destroyer buff.

The Bees get infiltrate (and by extension Outflank) from a formation? I can work with that.

 Gamgee wrote:
Also the Stormsurge now is worthy of its title. Str D Ap 1 missiles with expenditure of 1ML. And GW has said it can fire them all at once if it wants since each missile is its own weapon.

That's a lot of D. Like scary levels. With two of them in one alpha strike that's like 8 D Shots coming your way in one round at BS 3-5. If you rush forward with the D Cannon as well? My god.

Rulebook says otherwise - that said I have seen emails saying it can fire all it's weapons and I think most tournaments rule it that way too.

It's frightening to think about. I think I'm going to be painting my Orks for a while.

 Gamgee wrote:
Okay I see why they didn't buff units. Our formations are flippin insane. Even the weakest of them is seriously game table worthy.

Edit
I am happy to be wrong. All those telling me to clam down were right. So whew. I like it when I'm wrong sometimes. Feel free to sig this. Your not going to find too many people as amazing as myself out there who admit they were wrong.

Your wish is my command, Samwise.

And don't feel too bad, we all need to be told to calm down sometime.

grazingshot wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:

Also the sig system has always been reroll to hit rather than twinlinked. Quite frankly im not sure why its emphasized so much when its not 'to hits of 1' - far as i know its literally the same as twinlinked.

About the only difference is that template weapons that are twin linked reroll failed to wound. They do not get this benefit from reroll to hit abilities.

With Crisis being able to field AFPs now, I hardly see Flame Crisis being used anymore - specially that the blasts will get something from the CCN, while the flamers didn't.

Caederes wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:
Okay I see why they didn't buff units. Our formations are flippin insane. Even the weakest of them is seriously game table worthy.

Edit
I am happy to be wrong. All those telling me to clam down were right. So whew. I like it when I'm wrong sometimes. Feel free to sig this. Your not going to find too many people as amazing as myself out there who admit they were wrong.

Good on you mate, it takes a lot of courage to admit to that.

On other forums I see the general consensus on the Stormsurge has taken an about-face. Generally it was already a 50-50 split on whether it was good or weak, now pretty much everyone is being drawn in by the Destroyer buff.

There's still one guy on Warseer who just described the Stormsurge as 'underwhelming'. I guess there's no satisfying some people.

Twice now WD people have been asked can it fire all its guns. Twice they have asked GW or used some authority to say. Yes it can. Since it isn't a rule specific to the Storm then it must apply to all GMC.

The vast majority of tournaments rule it that way as well.

At this point it's only the die hard contingent of deniers really that oppose the ruling trying to twist it to their advantage.

It is worth noting that the White Dwarf team has also said in one of those same e-mails that GW are going to be releasing a FAQ to make it fully official. As it stands, I think 90% of players play it that they can shoot all their weapons anyway.

I'm actually still in disbelief about how good this codex is. I don't play filthy Tau (glory to the Emperor) but damn is this exciting, they are going to be ridiculously popular if this all pans out as we can see it now. Can anyone think of any detachment bonus nearly as strong as the Tau one in the context of a Buffmander giving his bonuses to units shooting at three or more different units (abusing Target Locks in the Buffmander's unit makes this possible)?

Caederes wrote:
It is worth noting that the White Dwarf team has also said in one of those same e-mails that GW are going to be releasing a FAQ to make it fully official. As it stands, I think 90% of players play it that they can shoot all their weapons anyway.

Combine the Firebase Support Cadre with the Armoured Interdiction Cadre, or just have a Buffmander fire a missile pod at the unit.

Twin-linked BS4 Railguns with Tank Hunters.

GMCs being unable to fire more than 2 guns has been a rule interpretation flop for eons. Almost all of them have more than 2 guns, and usually theyre small arms (look at the Garg Squiggoth for instance....so many guns). Thats why nobody that wasnt just trying to shaft someone's GMCs believed they could only fire 2 guns because it made no sense to give damn near every GMC more than 2 guns if they cant use them - unless they were all viable guns instead of multiple small arms guns and 1-2 BIG guns.

Stormsurge literally would never fire its D-Missiles if they were only S8 AP1 like we thought before, SMS, or Airburster. Why? Because why on earth would you fire them over its main gun or the cluster rockets?

Im glad they finally said something about that because it irritates me when people claim GMCs cant fire all their guns. Prime example why i play logically not RAW.

Also you have to remember, its only Str D with a markerlight. Im assuming but probably wrong about this, but im wagering its not fired like a Seeker Missile at the same time.
Skyray's main perk is it can fire all 6 missiles with only 1 markerlight by buffing itself to BS5. Surges dont have this benefit because 1 ML = 1 Str D missile. You would need 4-8 markerlights on multiple units to fire that many missiles in a single turn. Most tau armies struggle to get marks on more than 2 targets.

Its still nuts to think we can get that many Str D missiles though lol.

We should probably leave that RAW/RAI for YMDC (but even then not bother, it's been posted too many times).

Which formations look most likely to see competitive games?

 Vineheart01 wrote:
GMCs being unable to fire more than 2 guns has been a rule interpretation flop for eons. Almost all of them have more than 2 guns, and usually theyre small arms (look at the Garg Squiggoth for instance....so many guns). Thats why nobody that wasnt just trying to shaft someone's GMCs believed they could only fire 2 guns because it made no sense to give damn near every GMC more than 2 guns if they cant use them - unless they were all viable guns instead of multiple small arms guns and 1-2 BIG guns.

Stormsurge literally would never fire its D-Missiles if they were only S8 AP1 like we thought before, SMS, or Airburster. Why? Because why on earth would you fire them over its main gun or the cluster rockets?

Im glad they finally said something about that because it irritates me when people claim GMCs cant fire all their guns. Prime example why i play logically not RAW.

Also you have to remember, its only Str D with a markerlight. Im assuming but probably wrong about this, but im wagering its not fired like a Seeker Missile at the same time.
Skyray's main perk is it can fire all 6 missiles with only 1 markerlight by buffing itself to BS5. Surges dont have this benefit because 1 ML = 1 Str D missile. You would need 4-8 markerlights on multiple units to fire that many missiles in a single turn. Most tau armies struggle to get marks on more than 2 targets.

Its still nuts to think we can get that many Str D missiles though lol.

If you're using the detachment it is actually really easy to get lots of Markerlight hits simply because of the Buffmander and the fact that you can take three separate Pathfinder units as part of the Core formation (which a Buffmander is also a part of) meaning you can get the best value for points out of the detachment.

Just thought about other use for Coldstar: if any other unit fires with him against a flying thing, the unit will get Skyfire. So all you need now is Coldstar or just one model with VT that opts to fire against the flying thing. No need to spend 20p through your entire units of Broadsides/Riptides.

 Frozocrone wrote:
We should probably leave that RAW/RAI for YMDC (but even then not bother, it's been posted too many times).

Which formations look most likely to see competitive games?

Hard to say. The detachment is pretty much an auto-include at this point which means the Core formation will be very popular obviously (it helps that it is really strong too). Aside from that, the Heavy Retribution Cadre is a big one based on what the actual minimum requirements are (luchiban didn't specify yet). The Optimized Stealth Cadre could be very popular even despite how sucky Stealth Teams usually are, they get insane buffs in that formation. The Armored Interdiction Cadre seems good but the Retaliation Cadre looks pretty nasty. They are all pretty darned good formations aside from maybe the flyer and auxilliary ones.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vector Strike wrote:
Just thought about other use for Coldstar: if any other unit fires with him against a flying thing, the unit will get Skyfire. So all you need now is Coldstar or just one model with VT that opts to fire against the flying thing. No need to spend 20p through your entire units of Broadsides/Riptides.

I pointed this out earlier as well, you just need one Velocity Tracker and all of a sudden your entire army has Skyfire It's really funny for a unit with Target Locks though as you can army-wide Skyfire at multiple targets...bye-bye Pentyrant!

It's amazing how many tournaments lists are seemingly hard-countered by the new Tau!

 Vector Strike wrote:
Just thought about other use for Coldstar: if any other unit fires with him against a flying thing, the unit will get Skyfire. So all you need now is Coldstar or just one model with VT that opts to fire against the flying thing. No need to spend 20p through your entire units of Broadsides/Riptides.

Speaking of which, did anyone order a slice of army wide Interceptor pie?

 Vector Strike wrote:
Just thought about other use for Coldstar: if any other unit fires with him against a flying thing, the unit will get Skyfire. So all you need now is Coldstar or just one model with VT that opts to fire against the flying thing. No need to spend 20p through your entire units of Broadsides/Riptides.

No, model specific rules like skyfire do not confer, only unit specific ones. Now if warlord traits are the same and you get the once per game one that give your warlord and his unit skyfire, that will.

 Vector Strike wrote:
Just thought about other use for Coldstar: if any other unit fires with him against a flying thing, the unit will get Skyfire. So all you need now is Coldstar or just one model with VT that opts to fire against the flying thing. No need to spend 20p through your entire units of Broadsides/Riptides.

I like the way you think!

On a similar note, hopefully Darkstrider can be included in a Hunter Contingent. -1T is a big deal when you're getting shot at by...well every weapon in the Tau arsenal.

Frozocrone wrote:We should probably leave that RAW/RAI for YMDC (but even then not bother, it's been posted too many times).

Which formations look most likely to see competitive games?

In my point of view: the core one, Retaliation, Armoured Interdiction, Optimised Stealth, heavy Retribution and Firebase Support. Infiltration, Auxiliaries and Air Support look quite meh to me.

grazingshot wrote:

 Vector Strike wrote:
Just thought about other use for Coldstar: if any other unit fires with him against a flying thing, the unit will get Skyfire. So all you need now is Coldstar or just one model with VT that opts to fire against the flying thing. No need to spend 20p through your entire units of Broadsides/Riptides.

No, model specific rules like skyfire do not confer, only unit specific ones. Now if warlord traits are the same and you get the once per game one that give your warlord and his unit skyfire, that will.

Ah, I see your point now. Yep, that one is dead.

 Frozocrone wrote:

 Vector Strike wrote:
Just thought about other use for Coldstar: if any other unit fires with him against a flying thing, the unit will get Skyfire. So all you need now is Coldstar or just one model with VT that opts to fire against the flying thing. No need to spend 20p through your entire units of Broadsides/Riptides.

Speaking of which, did anyone order a slice of army wide Interceptor pie?

No idea how you would share Interceptor since you have to have the rule to attempt to fire to begin with. If you cant initiate the shot you cant benefit from the shared rules by firing at the same unit.

Skyfire thing is kinda funny though. Could be done with a random suit with VT's though.
edit; Nvm

 Vineheart01 wrote:

 Frozocrone wrote:

 Vector Strike wrote:
Just thought about other use for Coldstar: if any other unit fires with him against a flying thing, the unit will get Skyfire. So all you need now is Coldstar or just one model with VT that opts to fire against the flying thing. No need to spend 20p through your entire units of Broadsides/Riptides.

Speaking of which, did anyone order a slice of army wide Interceptor pie?

No idea how you would share Interceptor since you have to have the rule to attempt to fire to begin with. If you cant initiate the shot you cant benefit from the shared rules by firing at the same unit.

Skyfire thing is kinda funny though. Could be done with a random suit with VT's though.
edit; Nvm

Could use the Firebase Support Cadre with everything having VTs and give everybody tank and monster hunter...

The Skyfire trick should still work if you use a Coldstar though, right? It is a unit with Skyfire because of its unit type, or am I reading too much into that?

I also just noticed that you don't need the Retalation formation to get mobile Broadsides. The wording of Heavy weapons doesn't stop them from being able to fire at full Ballistic Skill after making a Run move via the Core formation, it only stops them if they moved in the Movement phase. Sure it is only D6" movement but doing that while still getting to fire at full Ballistic Skill is awesome.

Caederes wrote:
The Skyfire trick should still work if you use a Coldstar though, right? It is a unit with Skyfire because of its unit type, or am I reading too much into that?

A FMC may choose to fire as skyfire, the rule for it does not say that their unit gains skyfire, just that the model does which is why it won't work.