How could they fix the Astra militarum with a new codex?

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**saithor**

The problem with your order relay rule is again that Infanty squad stock weapons are useless and he upgrades to few. Why bother giving Tank Hunters or Ignores Cover to two squads with poor weapons when you can give it to a superior squad which costs less usually, and has better BS and weapons? And FRF SRF on twenty or more lash a just ensures that we put out more fire that does practically no damae at all.

**Selym**

Make lasguns Assault 2.
They have no recoil, many are made of plastic.

Then make FRFSRF double the shot output.

**Redleg**

saithor wrote:
The problem with your order relay rule is again that Infanty squad stock weapons are useless

I want to reinforce that the Orders Relayed rule would apply to all units purchased as part of a platoon thus perhaps making HWS usable (though perhaps still the points are too high) and certainly applying to SWSs and the command squads themselves. Certainly it was really only a shot in the dark, I think there is probably a better wording for it to say the least, and maybe certain orders could apply differently to different squad types.

I will attest though that FRFSRF seems like it could have a more streamlined rules set, that provides similar results with less time consuming extr rolls combined often with re-roles and order roles and re-rolled orders, it stacks up on time to shoot and often has little result. Other times it kills a flyrant outright.

On a completely different note what would you all say to being able to combine up to one SWS or HWS into one Infantry Squad instead of Inf squads with each other?

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or how about an order like this ish?
Focused Fire-
The ordered squad fires all lasguns at the target unit, then one to wound roll is made counting its Str equal to the number of hits but retaining normal AP

thus at 12" range your INF squad with no upgrades on average could put out one Str 10 shot. At 24" they could put out one Str 5 shot on average, better with prescience.

**Makumba**

But that is just runing vet squads with lower BS with extra heavy weapons instead of special weapons.
The problem with orders are two folds. They are cast on sometimes one or two weapons per squad that is bs 3, and those that affect the whole squad do not help much because the basic IG weapon is bad.

Vets are good because they can unload with two or three special weapons at bs4, and orders get more return from being used on them. Also the fact that order givers die super fast in 7th ed, doesn't help IG either.

**Selym**

Best thing they can do, IMO, is to make something more expensive per model.

Better artillery. "Basilisk x2" for 250 points, etc.

**vipoid**

Selym wrote:
Make lasguns Assault 2.

That's the thing though - it's not about needing more shots, it's that S3 just isn't useful. Too many things are outright immune, and many more take so little damage that they might as well be immune.

**Selym**

On a related note, this:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/658559.page

**JohnHwangDD**

Selym wrote:
Make lasguns Assault 2.
They have no recoil, many are made of plastic.

Then make FRFSRF double the shot output.

The problem is that all Imperial lasguns are still using break-action, bolt-action, or pump-action pre-firing rituals.

You are trained and conditioned this way, because that's the ritual and liturgy.

Rapid Fire, which is a major improvement from Lasguns being Heavy 1.

**vipoid**

This was posted on the AM Improvements thread, and I think it bears repeating:

Typically-Wardian wrote:
Okay. Long time lurker here, but I just had to make an account to point out how incredibly OP some of your suggestions are.

> Allowing a LRBT to get 4HP is rediculous, that's Monolith territory, and russes are not great ig fortresses. They are cobat tanks. It makes no sense ot be allowed spammable Av14 4HP vehicles, especially when you can get them for 120 points apiece.

> Russ tanks are underpriced. You can easily fit ten of them into a 1,500 point list, and npbod has the kind of firepower to deal with that.

> You don't need spotters, as artillery is powerful enough as it is.

> Power weapons should not be as cheap as 10 ppm. Everyone else pays 15 points for them, why should the guard be an exception?

> 30" Salvo 2/4 weapons are broken as hell, that will kill a unit per turn, especially with infiltrate.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
And Banebades are already some of the best vehicles in the game, what on earth makes you think they need to be cheaper, when they solo whole armies?

This is why IG can't have nice things...

Oh, and just to clarify - those Slavo weapons he's referring to are salvo lasguns on veterans.

**mr. peasant**

A couple more simple suggestions:

- Models with the "Senior officer" special rule pass Look out sir rolls on a 2+.

As it currently stands, IG Warlords are far too easy to slay due to low toughness, weak saves, and need for a 4+ to pass a Look out sir roll.

- Tempestus Scion Platoons: Any Scion may replace its Hot-shot lasgun with a Boltgun for free (same as how Tempestors/Primes can swap for Bolt pistols for free).

**BlaxicanX**

vipoid wrote:
This was posted on the AM Improvements thread, and I think it bears repeating:

Typically-Wardian wrote:
Okay. Long time lurker here, but I just had to make an account to point out how incredibly OP some of your suggestions are.

> Allowing a LRBT to get 4HP is rediculous, that's Monolith territory, and russes are not great ig fortresses. They are cobat tanks. It makes no sense ot be allowed spammable Av14 4HP vehicles, especially when you can get them for 120 points apiece.

> Russ tanks are underpriced. You can easily fit ten of them into a 1,500 point list, and npbod has the kind of firepower to deal with that.

> You don't need spotters, as artillery is powerful enough as it is.

> Power weapons should not be as cheap as 10 ppm. Everyone else pays 15 points for them, why should the guard be an exception?

> 30" Salvo 2/4 weapons are broken as hell, that will kill a unit per turn, especially with infiltrate.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
And Banebades are already some of the best vehicles in the game, what on earth makes you think they need to be cheaper, when they solo whole armies?

This is why IG can't have nice things...

Oh, and just to clarify - those Slavo weapons he's referring to are salvo lasguns on veterans.

Holy gak, that is awful.

To be fair though, his post isn't any more cancerous than most of the posts in these threads. The penis-envy toward Marines on display in here needs to stop.

**saithor**

Here's an idea for how to possibly make the Storm Troopers more unique. They are described as the elite troops, so it makes sense that they would have acsess to equipment that normal guard don't. So give them the options to take stuff like Grav-guns, Needle Rifles, maybe some other weapons. This is in additions to previous suggestions about things like Mission Doctrines.

**vipoid**

What are needle rifles?

**saithor**

vipoid wrote:
What are needle rifles?

Okay that I made up. Just take a Needle Pistol and give it a 18 or 24" inch range. Would make sense as a Special Weapon choice.

**vipoid**

Ah, I see.

Just one question... what's a needle pistol?

**saithor**

It's in the inquisition codex. It's a Fleshbane AP 2 weapon. Allow Scion squads to take 2-3 of them. It's a useful TEQ and MC hunter, but useless against Blobs and Vehicles.

**vipoid**

saithor wrote:
It's in the inquisition codex. It's a Fleshbane AP 2 weapon. Allow Scion squads to take 2-3 of them. It's a useful TEQ and MC hunter, but useless against Blobs and Vehicles.

Ah, I see. Thanks.

**JohnHwangDD**

As above, GW will remove the Storm unit from the ig book, just like Harlies were removed from Eldar & DE.

Expect Carapace vets to take their place.

**Kanluwen**

JohnHwangDD wrote:
As above, GW will remove the Storm unit from the ig book, just like Harlies were removed from Eldar & DE.

Expect Carapace vets to take their place.

If that were to have happened, it would have happened.

Seriously people. The Tempestus book released before the actual Guard book did.

**Selym**

Doesn't mean it was written before though.

**Kanluwen**

Selym wrote:
Doesn't mean it was written before though.

Doesn't mean it was written after either.

Seriously, it would have been nothing for them to remove the Scions from IG before it went to print.

**Selym**

GW has done stranger things before. I wouldn't put it past them to print the next codex with scions, and then FAQ that they are not legal without the Scions book.

**JohnHwangDD**

Given that the topic is a new Codex, why shouldn't we assume updates and corrections in the pattern of the most recent Codices? That means formation, Baneblades in vs Storms out.

**Selym**

JohnHwangDD wrote:
That means formation, Baneblades in

I don't think that they'll put Baneblades in. Taking a leaf out of the current SM book, the biggest HQ choice (Marneus Calgar) becomes the book's LoW option, rather than any of the SH vehicles. Baneblades are in Escalation, and putting them in the AM codex would not encourage AM players to buy Escalation.

**HANZERtank**

Selym wrote:
JohnHwangDD wrote:
That means formation, Baneblades in
I don't think that they'll put Baneblades in. Taking a leaf out of the current SM book, the biggest HQ choice (Marneus Calgar) becomes the book's LoW option, rather than any of the SH vehicles. Baneblades are in Escalation, and putting them in the AM codex would not encourage AM players to buy Escalation.

However orks got the stompa as a low choice as did eldar wirh the wraithknight. AM most expensive charachter is yarrick at 145 points. Nobody would take him instead of say a baneblade or its variants which are already valid low choice as per the escalation book I believe.

**Selym**

Players not wanting to take something has never stopped Gee Dubs before. I have a great many doubts about their ability to write a decent AM codex.

**JohnHwangDD**

So? The point is selling multiple $100+ baneblades in varied configurations. Just like knights, wks, etc.

**mr. peasant**

Given the diffusion of weapon technology, what do people think about maybe giving Guards (limited) access to Grav-weaponry?

For instance, perhaps along the lines of:
- Grav-pistol - Techpriests
- Grav-guns - Tempestus Scions, as part of the Special weapons list
- Grav-cannons - Servitors, Sentinels (Scout/Armoured/Both)

**Red Marine**

Guard blobs should be able to hold multiple objectives at once. The IG is supposed to be a rolling wall of hammers. Its also fairly well networked and should be able to coordinate holding 2 or so objectives.

Also, get rid of roughriders. No more cowboys & aliens, no more space horsies.

**Selym**

Allow IG unis this rule:

Cannon Fodder: If a model from this unit in any way obscures the line of fire from an enemy unit towards an allied unit, the allied unit will be granted a 5+ Invulnerable save. For each save passed, one model from this unit must be removed as a casualty, selected by the controlling player.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
No need to be cheaper, just more useful.