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Plague Terminator with poisoned weapons, T5, and FNP
Thousands Sons Terminator with 4+ inv, AP3 bolters(and reaper autocannon?), and a sorcerer
Noise Terminator with I5 and Missile Pods without the missiles, make them BASSCANNONS instead
Beserker Terminators with WS5, S5, and charge benefits

I don't know if it says this cant happen anywhere in the fluff, but it sounds pretty cool to me. If GW did this, I can see a lot of people brushing off their terminators. The only real downside I could see to this is the Cult Terminators being expensive as all hell and the normal Cult Marines losing some of their special snowflakiness.

Would you really want a plague knife/plague sword instead of a power weapon?

That said, I agree, more cult units would be cool! I'm pretty sure cult terminators used to exist, but the definition / rules of 'cult' was a little looser back then.

The way it is at the moment, I 'headcannon' cult units as ones that have fully dedicated themselves to their God, setting everything else aside. Contrast this to terminators who are much more individually aspirational/egotistical, which is how they've managed to earn/hold on to a suit of terminator armour, but not become the paragon of a God's essence as the cult troops have.

This also explains the lack of cult lords, outside o f special characters, the chaos lords as described in the current codex are still individualistic, so don't get the full benefit of a god's favour.

If you want a cult warlord you have to go special character or choose a cult unit champion. Not perfect, but apparently there is more chaos stuff on the way soon!

I think the only actual exception fluff wise would be noise terminators, since weren't noise marines the cacophony legion guys before the fall?

While I would like cult terminators I feel that A they would cost alot of points. Now while this isn't necessarily a bad thing as someone who fields a nurgle army I will admit it is almost pure mech and so regular Nurgle marked terminators are expensive as it is. B who would ever take regular terminators over the marked ones? Plus then you'd have to do cult versions of chosen bikes raptors and havocs which while I admit would be nice would be kinda silly plague bikes for example


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Brennonjw wrote:
I think the only actual exception fluff wise would be noise terminators, since weren't noise marines the cacophony legion guys before the fall?

No the were the predecessors to the Noise Marines post heresy Noise Marines are not Emporers Children only

nareik wrote:
Would you really want a plague knife/plague sword instead of a power weapon?

I would if it was poisoned power weapon

Hmm, I see what you mean by the individualistic nature, but its not impossible. They could have converted after earning their armor maybe?
Seeing as CSM is all about options and a lack of uniformity, I think it would be pretty cool!

SirSweetroll wrote:

nareik wrote:
Would you really want a plague knife/plague sword instead of a power weapon?

I would if it was poisoned power weapon

Hmm, I see what you mean by the individualistic nature, but its not impossible. They could have converted after earning their armor maybe?
Seeing as CSM is all about options and a lack of uniformity, I think it would be pretty cool!

Well I'm assuming atleast in the case of plague marines once you become a plague marine you can't remove your armour

Champion of Slaanesh wrote:
While I would like cult terminators I feel that A they would cost alot of points. Now while this isn't necessarily a bad thing as someone who fields a nurgle army I will admit it is almost pure mech and so regular Nurgle marked terminators are expensive as it is. B who would ever take regular terminators over the marked ones? Plus then you'd have to do cult versions of chosen bikes raptors and havocs which while I admit would be nice would be kinda silly plague bikes for example


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Brennonjw wrote:
I think the only actual exception fluff wise would be noise terminators, since weren't noise marines the cacophony legion guys before the fall?

No the were the predecessors to the Noise Marines post heresy Noise Marines are not Emporers Children only

But noone uses regular Terminators now, except the occasional Assault Termy, but otherwise, noone uses them.

As for would i use them? I dont play CSM but if i did i would totally get some Rubric Termies, to go with my Rubric Marines. Heres a fun thought, Tzeentch Terminators are a bunch of Psykers

Champion of Slaanesh wrote:
you'd have to do cult versions of chosen bikes raptors and havocs which while I admit would be nice would be kinda silly plague bikes for example


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Brennonjw wrote:
I think the only actual exception fluff wise would be noise terminators, since weren't noise marines the cacophony legion guys before the fall?

No the were the predecessors to the Noise Marines post heresy Noise Marines are not Emporers Children only

Haha, I think Khorne Havoks would be a murderous addition to any army
"CHARGE!"
"But Sir"
"BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!"
Minutes later tau are being beat over the head with lascannons

Do cult troops HAVE to be pre-heresy? I mean, its been awhile hasn't it? Its not impossible for there to be some younger ones is it?

SirSweetroll wrote:

Champion of Slaanesh wrote:
you'd have to do cult versions of chosen bikes raptors and havocs which while I admit would be nice would be kinda silly plague bikes for example


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Brennonjw wrote:
I think the only actual exception fluff wise would be noise terminators, since weren't noise marines the cacophony legion guys before the fall?

No the were the predecessors to the Noise Marines post heresy Noise Marines are not Emporers Children only

Haha, I think Khorne Havoks would be a murderous addition to any army
"CHARGE!"
"But Sir"
"BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!"
Minutes later tau are being beat over the head with lascannons

Do cult troops HAVE to be pre-heresy? I mean, its been awhile hasn't it? Its not impossible for there to be some younger ones is it?

No they don't lol. My Blight Angels who are roughly 50% plague marines fluff wise are a Iron Hands successor who turned to Nurgle lol. Obviously that's fan fiction lol but in the codex it just mentions the first cult marines came from the legions

Hah, alright. I mean I figured as much. I don't think GW would have to make a cult version of every troop, but Terminators seem like they'd be a good addition. (Plus termies need all the help they can get)
Anyone got any other cult ideas ? Or reasons why it wouldn't work?
Which cult terminators would you run?

Why? Because Phil Kelly is one of the worst codex writers there is.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Why? Because Phil Kelly is one of the worst codex writers there is.

Or because not everyone plays the legions. Quite frankly I don't want cult bikes etc and I definitely don't want the legions back.

Ps if he's a crap writer then I'm sure my 7th ed woc fantasy book would like to disagree with you

Slaanesh Terminators would be cool, give them each a doom siren and power weapons. If the sirens didnt destroy their target unit outright, then the assault will, especially with the boosted initiative. Or maybe im just wishful thinking.

Champion of Slaanesh wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Why? Because Phil Kelly is one of the worst codex writers there is.

Or because not everyone plays the legions. Quite frankly I don't want cult bikes etc and I definitely don't want the legions back.

Ps if he's a crap writer then I'm sure my 7th ed woc fantasy book would like to disagree with you

Fantasy? This is 40k. He's a crap writer over here.

I don't care if everyone doesn't play legions or not. Terminators lack a lot, the internal balance is wonky (you get more special weapons with Plague Marines on top of being more durable. Ridiculous). There's almost no point to just regular marks on Vanilla Marines. The option should at least be available though, don't you agree?

I'd be satisfied with Tzeentch Termies having the AP3 rule that rubrics have and the champion being a sorcerer. Giving them the MoT already gives them a 4++, so adding the other two things would balance them being expensive points wise.

SirSweetroll wrote:
Plague Terminator with poisoned weapons, T5, and FNP
Thousands Sons Terminator with 4+ inv, AP3 bolters(and reaper autocannon?), and a sorcerer
Noise Terminator with I5 and Missile Pods without the missiles, make them BASSCANNONS instead
Beserker Terminators with WS5, S5, and charge benefits

I don't know if it says this cant happen anywhere in the fluff, but it sounds pretty cool to me. If GW did this, I can see a lot of people brushing off their terminators. The only real downside I could see to this is the Cult Terminators being expensive as all hell and the normal Cult Marines losing some of their special snowflakiness.

TL;DR answer? They don't make models for them, so no rules.

Long answer?

GW sort of wrote themselves into some weird corners.

Originally, anything witha Mark was a Cult unit. A Chaos Marine with a Mark of Tzeentch was a Rubric Marine and that was simply that. Then they started mucking about with things and differentiating stuff more and started going down a path with differences between Renegades and Legions. A Chaos Marine with a Mark of Tzeentch was no longer a Rubric Marine, but just a Chaos Marine with a Markk of Tzeentch, while Rubric Marines were something else and generally had more abilities. The problem is that they failed to extend this differentiation beyond the "tactical" squad equivalents.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Why? Because Phil Kelly is one of the worst codex writers there is.

To be fair, the state of the current codex isn't really Mr. Kelly's fault at all...

Divorcing all of the Daemon content in 4th, then finally getting around to a full-on Codex: Chaos Daemons weeks before 5th dropped left the Chaos Marine codex missing almost half of its former unit options. Those 11+ units suddenly becoming their own army meant that the 6th ed codex had to instead focus on simply adding in new replacement units, which were likely decided by the model department rather than the games dev.

Then the problem is further compounded by GW's utterly abysmal model support for the entire Chaos Marine line, coupled with the Chapterhouse lawsuit, meaning that no matter who got the reigns of the 6th ed codex, they couldn't add anything that wouldn't have full model support at initial release.
Hence we get no new toys like everyone else and their mother got, while being further hamstrung by piss poorly designed kits such as the entirely useless Terminator box, and masses of old Finecrap garbage like the Havoc kit.

All we really need is to get our own versions of new age toys akin to how Loyalists we given grav weaponry, as well as return missing options such as the likes of Heavy flamers & Plasma cannons.

It's not that what units & options we do have are unplayable or anything, rather, we've simply been stuck in neutral with the exact same options for over 15 years now. Meanwhile, everyone else have been routinely getting new toys which are better suited to the modern game.

Experiment 626 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Why? Because Phil Kelly is one of the worst codex writers there is.

To be fair, the state of the current codex isn't really Mr. Kelly's fault at all...

Divorcing all of the Daemon content in 4th, then finally getting around to a full-on Codex: Chaos Daemons weeks before 5th dropped left the Chaos Marine codex missing almost half of its former unit options. Those 11+ units suddenly becoming their own army meant that the 6th ed codex had to instead focus on simply adding in new replacement units, which were likely decided by the model department rather than the games dev.

Then the problem is further compounded by GW's utterly abysmal model support for the entire Chaos Marine line, coupled with the Chapterhouse lawsuit, meaning that no matter who got the reigns of the 6th ed codex, they couldn't add anything that wouldn't have full model support at initial release.
Hence we get no new toys like everyone else and their mother got, while being further hamstrung by piss poorly designed kits such as the entirely useless Terminator box, and masses of old Finecrap garbage like the Havoc kit.

All we really need is to get our own versions of new age toys akin to how Loyalists we given grav weaponry, as well as return missing options such as the likes of Heavy flamers & Plasma cannons.

It's not that what units & options we do have are unplayable or anything, rather, we've simply been stuck in neutral with the exact same options for over 15 years now. Meanwhile, everyone else have been routinely getting new toys which are better suited to the modern game.

I was unaware of some of this. I was never on the burn Phil Kelly wagon, but for the most part the book hasn't held up. The Daemonkin books, while cool, seem like they are going to slow the process down for CSM players. I go mostly nurgle but have been dabbling in slannesh and I think if the Daemonkin books become a thing they will be updated last.

Lets pray to the dark gods we get some new books soon, Cult Terminators or not. (Though I still think its a cool idea!)

Speaking about the possible Tzeencthkin book, apparently alot of people don't think it's going to happen...this thread talks about it http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/662416.page

Given that in the thousand sons who got Terminator armour was decided by who had the most psychic power, and the rubric generally only dustified those with minimal psychic power, then it would ideed be a stretch to suggest that there should be any number of "Rubric" terminators worth talking about.

Given there was only a handful (~1500) of TSons who escaped Prospero, then a not insignificant amount were lost to the flesh change, one would assume that many of ther terminator suits were lost, and the only way to aquire new ones is to kill their previous owner and take it as spoils of war, hence only living sorcerors would be liekly candidates for owning a suit of terminator armour.

One of the interesting things is why Ahriman doesn't have a set of terminator armour, since all 81 of the scarab occult (who he was effectively 1st captain of as chief librarian) were meant to be in terminator plate (as they were the most powerful psychers in the legion), yet Ahriman (or almost any of the other heads of the covens) never bothered to exchange his bog standard power armour for artificer, let alone terminator armour, even during the heresy.

Champion of Slaanesh wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Why? Because Phil Kelly is one of the worst codex writers there is.

Or because not everyone plays the legions.

Wanna just play renegades? Get C:SM and glue some spikes on it. Leave the CSM codex for the actual CSM.

In 3rd until end of 4th there was Cult Termies.

Khorne Termies had everything a Zerker has, but in a termie armor.

WS5 3A base, FC and some kind of "Fleet" , yup they could move 6, run D6 and then assault, you could upgrade them all to Asp CHamps and give them all Axes of Khorne, for each 6's to hit, and extra attack, as long that you kept rolling 6's...

Rubric Termies was 2W termies with SnP, and could take only Heavy bolter as heavy weapons, but they also had the "All is Dust" rule, that made them completly invulnerable Vs Str 4 attacks and shots, you HAD to be Str 5+ to wound them, with a Sorceror Champ, at the time the MoT din't give +1 to Invul saves, it only made Psykers auto pass their Psy test.

Slaaneshi Termites where pretty forward, +1Init, Sonix Weaponry.

Nurgle Ones had FnP, not much else, at the time the Mark of Nurgle inflicted wounds on none Nurgle models in a 6" radius, Nurgle's Rot or Plague don't remember.

So yeah the Ones that where marginally better where Khorne Termies and Slaaneshi termies.

Khorne Berzerkers in TDA. Plague Marines in TDA. Rubric Marines in TDA. Just a couple of things that would be pretty good if they existed.

tl;dr - Because it would make CSM suck less.

Surely you could just have your 4 basic cult troops. Then have TDA or a bike or 4 heavy weapons as war gear add ons, then as you use certain options they change the squads position in the CAD.

All for a price. But I think super customizable would be fun. I guess you could also stipulate they can't been in the same formation as another cult troop or somthing

MarsNZ wrote:

Champion of Slaanesh wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Why? Because Phil Kelly is one of the worst codex writers there is.

Or because not everyone plays the legions.

Wanna just play renegades? Get C:SM and glue some spikes on it. Leave the CSM codex for the actual CSM.

So I should have to go use the loyalist codex for my Nurgle worshipping Iron Hands successor. Renegades don't just include the recent turn coats it also includes the NON legion chaos marines

Well, Rubric Terminators (of the current 40K variant) at least would be impossible.

Rubric of Ahirman went off long before the Emperor got laid low and had his armour cut to pieces to be sent to the loyal legions to make Crux Terminatus and the new Terminator armour.

Other Legions might've scavanged a few suits through the ages (with or without a traitor inside, e.g. Zhufor), but a later-date Rubric would be impossible.

Probably could have Cataphractii or something similar from these more recent fluff-ret-con days, when Terminator ceased to be an exclusively post-Heresy thing.

Wonderwolf wrote:
Well, Rubric Terminators (of the current 40K variant) at least would be impossible.

Rubric of Ahirman went off long before the Emperor got laid low and had his armour cut to pieces to be sent to the loyal legions to make Crux Terminatus and the new Terminator armour.

Other Legions might've scavanged a few suits through the ages (with or without a traitor inside, e.g. Zhufor), but a later-date Rubric would be impossible.

Probably could have Cataphractii or something similar from these more recent fluff-ret-con days, when Terminator ceased to be an exclusively post-Heresy thing.

Terminator armor was never supposed to be a post-heresy thing simply scavenged by CSM's, the different types and whatnot have simply gotten jumbled in GW's train wreck that is the CSM fluff history but it the current pattern was what CSM's always had even going back to the concept's inception for the game. CSM's still retain their Heresy era weapons and wargear loadouts like Reaper Autocannons and combi-weapons, and don't have things like scavenged Cyclone missile launchers or Assault Cannons or Storm Bolters.

Wonderwolf wrote:
Well, Rubric Terminators (of the current 40K variant) at least would be impossible.

Rubric of Ahirman went off long before the Emperor got laid low and had his armour cut to pieces to be sent to the loyal legions to make Crux Terminatus and the new Terminator armour.

Other Legions might've scavanged a few suits through the ages (with or without a traitor inside, e.g. Zhufor), but a later-date Rubric would be impossible.

Probably could have Cataphractii or something similar from these more recent fluff-ret-con days, when Terminator ceased to be an exclusively post-Heresy thing.

When has GW fluff stood in the way of rule changes and new codex changes

The only reason GW hasn't implemented any form of legion tactics or cult terminators and the likes, is simply because GW hates "Bad Guy" armies and favors the IOM far too heavily.

Champion of Slaanesh wrote:

MarsNZ wrote:

Champion of Slaanesh wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Why? Because Phil Kelly is one of the worst codex writers there is.

Or because not everyone plays the legions.

Wanna just play renegades? Get C:SM and glue some spikes on it. Leave the CSM codex for the actual CSM.

So I should have to go use the loyalist codex for my Nurgle worshipping Iron Hands successor.

Yes, pretty much. CSM dex should support Legions over an irrelevant handful of home-brew warbands.