ma ork army, plies help da orkz make a propa WAAAGH!

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**drakenkanon**

hallo all

a friend of mine got an idea for a army list, i took a look and i must say: it really does look cool. please tell me what needs improvements, since we both play orks but it is always good to hear opinions from others.

hq:

big mek
*kff
[85]

troops:

20 boys
*nob, power klaw, bosspole
[160]

19 boys
*nob, power klaw, bosspole
[154]

30 boys
*nob, power klaw, bosspole
[220]

30 boys
*nob, power klaw, bosspole
[220]

30 boys
*nob, power klaw, bosspole
[220]

heavy support:

battlewagon
*deff rolla
*4 big shoota
*armour plates
*grot riggers
[145]

battlewagon
*deff rolla
*4 big shoota
*armour plates
*grot riggers
[145]

3 killa kans
*3 rokkit launcha
[150]

total [1499]

the plan whould be to ride the smaller units of boys in the battlewagons, the unit of 19 wit ha big mek with kff. than tank shock/ram the opponent while the other boys run forward. The killa kans will be my ranged support. i gave the battlewagons armour plates and grot riggers because i had some spare points, and even for the one with a mek in it it wont hurt to have grot riiggers (if the mek fail his repair)

**Mellon**

Yepp, a fearsome ork horde this. You are a bit limited in your ways to handle mechanized enemy forces. It would be good to have something to open up rhinos at range, so your boyz can chew on the juicy bits inside. Maybe get a few small squads of lootas?

**resinmann**

I play SW last night I went aginst orks.The Zap gun killed a transport 1st shot of the game. A unit or 12 loota's behind a wall was trouble all game. I had a hard time killing them,most survived the whole game. The IC Snig-rat? came from reserves on my back table center.
Those 3 things sucked the most about the ork army.

**rednekgunner**

I would either add annother BW, or drop the wagons to add more kans. Also since you are runnin a big mek, why not take a deff dread as a troop selection. Just something to think about

**drakenkanon**

i didnt take a dread because he comes for the price of roughly 18 boys, wich strike with 76 attacks on a charge. and also because destroying a dread needs just a little bit of luck, destroying 18 orks is harder. and why should i have either only killa kans or only battlewagons?

**rednekgunner**

I like the dread because he doesn't run away in fear when a couple boyz fail 6+ saves.

I was thinking that the 9 kans is hard to destroy (especially w/KFF). The other reason is that BW will leave your kans in the dust. I do have to ask, are you running GW BW? if you are then you can run 6 kans and 1 wagon with the big mek in it, if not it might get a little tight maneuvering all the armor.

In the end that is my opinion, I have seen the 11 walker list rape armies.

**drakenkanon**

boys are fearless with more than 10, and you also got a bosspole for when they do get under 10 and fail a test.

**mercer**

This army is a bit mixed up.

It has a utility big mek, which is fine.

It then has boyz on foot and boyz on wagons. So the wagons become targets and then boyz are popped out leaving them foot slogging. You want to give target saturation along with unit redundnacy. Taking a few of certain unit types doesn't always cut it.

So I would decide if you want more wagons and go the mech route or get kanz to make a kan wall for the foot slogging army instead. Though beware; a foot slogging army is extremely vulnerable to cover save denying weaponary i.e flamers, imperial guard colossus etc. The KFF will not save you then. While in mech you get the 4+ cover save on the transport and then the transport itself needs to be destroyed before the boyz can be shot at.

Oh, anti tank? You have hardly any.

**drakenkanon**

ok so i was thinking to do this:

-1 unit of 30 boys
-1 unit of killa kans

+1 battlewagon (geared like the others)
+1 unit of 20 boys (in bw)
+1 unit of 7 loota's

whould this be good? i mean; 3 deff rolla's and 1 unit of loota's seem like enough anti tank to me (correct me if im wrong), the loota's can also shoot at infantry. and also:

since i spread my army out, do i need 2 big meks with kff?

**Eyclonus**

I would consider taking a warboss and nob squad with a dedicated wagon, just to get more wagons on the playing field. It also gives you a scary monster unit which can be great for charging in and destroying a Chaptermaster and Honour Guard in Turn 2.

Also having run a very similar list in a tournament earlier this year, I highly recommend dropping all the footsloggers. Are you running them as Shoota or Sluggas? On foot should always be shootas, but mounted boyz squads should be Sluggas. They rarely get to combats and spend most of the game running to an enemy that normal chews a fair few out with better shooting.

On a tangent here but never take BPs on mobs of 30, if you in a situation where a re-roll is needed on Ld it means you have lost 20+ boyz, which is a situation that can hardly be remedied by having less boyz. Its not a real saving of points but it should not be a major priority as your far more likely to be worried about everything else in a case where you've lost that many boyz in battle.

Are these Gunwagons or transports? You don't need to many weapons on them unless you're using the wagons as gunwagons, in that case you need more Dakka. Consider dropping it down 2 Big Shootas each.

Loota's are ok, but as they will never be moving expect them to fall quickly when they get assaulted as you will rarely have anything able to get there and stop the wipe out on this small squad. Lootas are good for transport popping and blasting infantry squads, but don't rely on them to break the heavier IG tanks.

On an interesting side note, consider mounting Tankbusters in a wagon for anti-tank. They are fiddly little unit to use but in a transport you are able to get them right next to the target, especially when combined with a ram for guaranteed Land Raider kills.
Another good choice is a squad of 15 burna boyz in a wagon with a KFF Mek w/ Burna. Whilst not anti-tank as such you will eliminate any squad that has 2+ models under the flame template. Its also a good way to make enemies in tournaments...

**drakenkanon**

thanks a lot, i didnt really think of battlewagons as dedicated transport yet, so if i field nobs i am able to have 4 battlewaagns? hmm interesting.

but for the flamers/tankbusta's in a battlewagon: are'nt those way too expansive units? (when i take the battlewagon in the point cost) and do i really need tankbusta's when i field 4 deff rolla's than can give d6 almost certain at least glancing hits on vehicles?

Automatically Appended Next Post:
after reading your post i thought of the following changes to the first list (in my first post in this topic):

-3 units of 30 boys
-1 units of killa kans
-2 big shoota's on every battlewagon

+1 unit of 20 boys
+1 boy in the unit of 20 (the mek will ride with the nobz)
+1 battlewagon (dedicated transport for the nobs)
+1 unit of 10 nobz (with 9 big choppa's)
+1 warboss /w pk, squig, cybork body, 'eavy armour
+1 unit of 6 loota's

the warboss can be detached from the nobz for when a vehicle survives the deff rolla's (6 str 10 hits hurt

), but shouldnt i replace the nobz wagon with a trukk? or is it too fragile? i mean; do i really need 4 battlewagons? 3 seems enough, especially since you can only field 3 of most av14 vehicles, and the av13 and lower vehicles can be shot at by my loota's too (6xd3 shots=~12 shots, 4 hit, 2 glance against av13, 2/3 at av12/lower

**Eyclonus**

Battlewagon spam is a very valid build. It was quite successful in the US metagame a few months ago. With the new tyranids any mech list is now scuttled by the Montstrous Creature factor, but its otherwise still really good.

Its possible to take 8 Battlewagons if you forfeit the KFF for another Boss. True you won't have much in the way of outfitting for the squads, but thats why your taking so many wagons.

Your nob squad should always be a "complex unit". That is to say that each nob has a unique wargear selection, meaning you can pick and choose where wounds go, it should include a number of PKs too as with enough of them the Warboss and Nobs become 2 separate monster units that ride in the same vehicle.

Also yes Tankbuster/Burna-wagons are expensive to run, but in my experience the burna-wagon is a massive feth YOU to hordes/SS-TH Assault Terminators/Warrior broods/AV10. THe Burna-wagon will also make IG infantry based lists crumble in the blink of an eye.

**drakenkanon**

hmm, but if i want to have my nobz complex i will have to save a lot of points, especially if i want to have some pk's, so what whould i have to remove? also: a unit burna's is 225 points, if i want to fit that in my army i will have to remove another 65 points (since they cost 65 more points than a boys squad of 20)

**Eyclonus**

I suppose the Burna-Wagon is a bit much in a 1,500pt list, I ran it in a 1,750pt list and it was GOLDEN. I suppose you could just ignore it for the moment and chuck it in when you want to move up a size category.

Also DashOfPepper wrote a cost effective way of making nobs complex for like 280 points or something. Complex nobs are seriously worth it.

About 9 months ago.. no more like 12 months ago the top list in the entire US tournament metagame was the Nob-Biker List. It consisted of 500 point army with a 1,000 point unit of complex biker nobs and a biker warboss.
Simply put the unit needed to take 12 wounds in total before a single model was removed. Every member had 4+/5++/4+CVR/FNP with T4(5) and T5(6) on the boss, which made this nearly impossible, the unit itself could beat any single (Specifically single, ganging up was one of the few ways to have a chance against them) unit on the tabletop with its firepower and more importantly its S9/S10 PKs as well as being a scoring unit.

At the moment the nob biker list is a lot lower in the standings but it is still powerful enough to dominate an opponent unused to its sledgehammer unit with the limited support units on the side. Its key secret lies in the fact that it was complex. Hence this is why I encourage all ork players to make every nob unit they run "Complex", if so only to remind those puny Adamantium underwear'd pansies the power of orkz!

**drakenkanon**

ok, but then i still have to cut off 30 points, suggestions? i already made the wagons 2 big shoota's each, just to avoid weapon destroyed turning in stunned, and those nobs for 280 points include enough pk's?

**Eyclonus**

Drop the lootas, they're either 6, 12 or 18 shots, not worth their cost that small. Remember only 1/3rd on average of your shots will hit, and against SMs 1/6th will fail to wound, followed by 2/3rds being shrugged off by armour.

**Claypool**

Needs more red paint!

**drakenkanon**

but if i dont play any loota's, i think im gonna have problems with ig, vehicle heavy army's, i mean; the av14 vehicles will be taken down by my bw's and my boss, but if they field like 7 tanks, from wich ~3 av14 i wont have enough with my bw's, because when i tank shock they will most likeley get destroyed in cc (or with ranged, whatever the enemie has on the table)