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So, one can equip Savage Orcs with Bows for very little...
Has anyone tried this? Maybe + Spider Banner?
Could be nasty?

MAybe I should add that, unless I have misread, that bows are in addition to hand weapons, not instead of them..

Well yea but for cheaper you can have some kind of goblin with a bow, and the spider BSB won't have to stand off to the sdide of the unit.

Well, I guess you could and it would be cheaper, but would it be as effective?

Same BS so you loose some range but get about 3 times more shots for the same pts.

Alright, sure initially, you might think that this build would be very appealing having a great multipurpose unit to hold the center of your army. I mean it sounds awesome to have a big unit in the center of your line which can both be very threatening in melee as well as putting out a number of ranged shots, but it is far more important to think about the role it will play in your army overall. If str 3 bow fire from a horde of savage orcs is your only ranged shooting you are going to have problems. Sure this build could work as it allows you to have savage orcs in a shooty orc army but I think that straight up orc archers and groups of goblins can do it just as good.

Also the problem begins to be that you have a lot of points tied up in one unit which can only do one thing at a time, but you need to just play with this build to see how it fits in your army and playstyle, but I doubt that it will be a successful strategy to build your army around.

I guess I was thinking of an all purpose unit, but not one that would be the only shooting. Thanks though..it's something to think about

Jack of all trades units aren't really good (or even common) in fantasy. You want units that can both shoot and fight play space naz... erm marines.

I think thats a bit harsh. I saw the unit as a fighty one tprimarily, that could deal out a lot of pain-but could also shoot if need be. It wouldn't take anything away from the unit's combat ability. They would still dish out a load of high strength poison attacks (remember, Spider banner), but if need be could dish out some shooting (again, poisoned). I'm yet to read something that lays out clearly why this is a bad thing. Maybe I'll just have to try it and agree to disagree..

As with any shooting unit, you've got an issue of the units footprint. The 18" range of the short bow is a significant difference. It's very tough to get two rounds of volley fire in, meaning that you'd want to be wide to maximize shots. But going wide with goblins means that they stand very little chance at holding up to anything in combat; goblins really need ranks.

Orcs on the other have a bit more range, making it possible to get 2 bursts of volley fire off, and they hold up much better on a flank.
If you run numbers of the difference between 5-10 more attacks, and 20-30 S3 shots, you'll find that both have their place. Sometimes the shooting is better, sometimes the attacks are better.
Both are Viable.

-Matt




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, I'm pretty sure that the poison banner gives all GOBLINS in the unit poison attacks. That's a no go for Orcs with bows.

-Matt

Yeah its pretty obvious that you meant for it to be an all purpose unit, however unless you dedicate it to shoot on your turns its not going to be using those bows at all, and then it not really multipurpose. As the horde of savage orcs is a huge threat in melee at the same time it is not really a huge threat at range with bows. I mean max 30 str 3 bow shots, even poison is much more of a gimmick than actually threatening. The problem is the unit does not create enough of a threat by itself to invite the enemy to fight you in melee. The unit will not move forward as it will be shooting or the bows are a waste of points. And then while it is shooting there are not enough shots to make it a threat and actually earn you points in an actual game. The unit will earn its points in melee and your opponents will know that. Even if you only move them the max 4" and still shoot the unit will be moving slow enough to be avoidable.

Well, that makes a good case. Thanks.

HawaiiMatt wrote:
Oh, I'm pretty sure that the poison banner gives all GOBLINS in the unit poison attacks. That's a no go for Orcs with bows.

-Matt

Nope, the wording is "models in a unit with the spider banner, including the standard bearer, get poison attacks"

So yes you can do it. I'm not entirely sold on the idea that bows are better than dual choppa, though. I'll try a huge horde of bow-wielding savages with a gobbo BSB and Spider banner, just for the surprise factor.

I OTOH will try adding a spider mounted BSB in a savage boar unit with extra choppas.

jouso wrote:

HawaiiMatt wrote:
Oh, I'm pretty sure that the poison banner gives all GOBLINS in the unit poison attacks. That's a no go for Orcs with bows.

-Matt

Nope, the wording is "models in a unit with the spider banner, including the standard bearer, get poison attacks"

So yes you can do it. I'm not entirely sold on the idea that bows are better than dual choppa, though. I'll try a huge horde of bow-wielding savages with a gobbo BSB and Spider banner, just for the surprise factor.

actually you want the BSB on the side of the unit to keep him out of combat so being on a different base is to your advantage, or the little git wearing light armour and shield at best is going to die.

Orlanth wrote:actually you want the BSB on the side of the unit to keep him out of combat so being on a different base is to your advantage, or the little git wearing light armour and shield at best is going to die.

If you run a wide frontage, then yes, I haven't been hording my orcs for quite some time now though. 5 for shield+choppa orcs, 6 or 7 for the heavy hitters.

As I told before, I'll try that this weekend:

40-ish unit of savage archers with a gobbo+spider banner.

Then a smaller (30-ish) unit of savage big'uns with the shrunken head shaman. That pretty much fills core.