Switch Theme:

Always strikes last  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Been Around the Block




Malorian commented that all regular weapons should be available. But he cited balencing problems. Like Saurus warriors with GW. That got me thinking about the ASL rule. If ASF gives you a bonus for also having higher init then why doesn't ASL have a penalty for having lower init.

Proposed rule:

ASL- current rule + if the attacker has lower initiative and ASL then they must re-roll all hits.
   
Made in us
Knight of the Inner Circle






No, ASL is enough of a drawback...For me, all my GW units are killed before they even swing.

6000 points
4000 points
Empire 5500 Points

 
   
Made in us
Nigel Stillman





Seattle WA

 riverhawks32 wrote:
No, ASL is enough of a drawback...For me, all my GW units are killed before they even swing.


I agree it's enough of a penality.

Unless you're a high elf.


See more on Know Your Meme 
   
Made in au
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





Meh, if balancing is an issue then you can just use points adjustments to make it work. So in cases like Lizardmen where ASL isn't much of a drawback you can just increase the cost of the option - make it 5 points per model or something and see how many people think it isn't balanced.


On the more general issue, I disagree fundamentally with the idea that all weapons should be available to all units. The restrictions aren't just there for balancing, they represent what kind of troops had what kinds of weapons. Lizardman gear mimics the limitations that various South American tribes had when facing the Europeans - spears and hand weapons in an age of full plate armour. It's a very interesting limitation on the list, and prevents the otherwise very intimidating Saurus statline from reliably dominating combat.

In the same way, you just didn't see large blocks of peasants tromping about the hundred years war with great weapons, and so these weapons aren't an option for Bretonnian peasants.

Gear restriction is an important part of making armies unique.

 riverhawks32 wrote:
No, ASL is enough of a drawback...For me, all my GW units are killed before they even swing.


If you find your ASL units are getting killed before they attack, then it sounds like your combat blocks aren't big enough. Take enough dudes so that you've got a battle of attrition, and then it doesn't matter if you go second because you'll both be getting full rounds of attacks out of every guy.

“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”

Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. 
   
Made in us
Knight of the Inner Circle






That is the trouble...I take knights with GW's units of 10, hit someone in the flank and still die. I see the validity of your point. Regardless, ASL does not need another stipulation x)

6000 points
4000 points
Empire 5500 Points

 
   
Made in us
Crazed Savage Orc





I agree with the concept that each army should be unique with respect to weapons selection.

WHFB 3000 pts
40k 1000 pts
40k 1000 pts 
   
Made in us
Evasive Eshin Assassin





@guzzoid: your suggestion makes a lot of sense, theoretically; ASF has an additional benefit, so why doesn't ASL have an additional drawback?

@riverhawks32: that's just plain terrible luck, man. Keep at it! I've found the only way to gain the favor of Fickle Lady Fate is to ignore her all together. Don't acknowledge her attention or abuse, don't implore her for aid or mercy, nada. Just take the blows and know that you've got a clean slate every roll!

@sebster: Agreed. As usual. Though I do think that offering a wider variety of weapons to a wider variety of armies would make some sense, and would go a ways towards game-wide balance.

 
   
Made in au
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





 riverhawks32 wrote:
That is the trouble...I take knights with GW's units of 10, hit someone in the flank and still die. I see the validity of your point. Regardless, ASL does not need another stipulation x)


Ah, I see. I play Empire as well, and have found my best results with GW knights when I run units of five, and am extremely selective about their opponents (picking out chaff units and targeting the flanks of enemy units with Str 3)... or going massive and taking 30+ GW knights in horde formation.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Warpsolution wrote:
@sebster: Agreed. As usual. Though I do think that offering a wider variety of weapons to a wider variety of armies would make some sense, and would go a ways towards game-wide balance.


Fair point. I think you've (once again) caught me overstating my position. A wider variety of weapons for armies would make sense and add a little more variety, I just feel it should be stopped a long way short of offering all weapons to all armies. No great weapons for Skaven or Lizardmen for instance, as the absence of those weapons are a major element of that army.

But I think it'd be interesting if slings and throwing axes were a lot more common.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/01/18 04:03:16


“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”

Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. 
   
Made in gb
Nimble Pistolier





Belfast

 sebster wrote:

But I think it'd be interesting if slings and throwing axes were a lot more common.


Hell yeah, or if certain throwing weapons could be used as an 'out-of-sync' shot as you charge in...
Especially as that is pretty much what throwing axes/javelins are for...

The Men of Ostermark 6K

http://japehlio.blogspot.com/

Custom Insignia? Theming an army? I take sculpting commissions. PM me for more information. 
   
Made in us
Evasive Eshin Assassin





@japehilo: especially since normal throwing weapons are next to worthless right now. Back when they didn't have a short/long range, it was a lot easier to use them.

That said, I still don't quite get why slings have MS X2.

 
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

Its because a skilled slinger could fire quite a few shots in rapid succession.


If anything, the problem with Slings is that they are on the worthless trash unit. Slings are hard to use, not somthing you would find on meatshields.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in us
Evasive Eshin Assassin





But anyone who's skilled with any ranged weapon will be able to fire it faster than those who are not skilled. The sling is about as quick to load as a light crossbow.

You raise an excellent point, though. I guess the idea is that, while slings are hard to use, they're super cheap to make. It's easier to give my Slaves slings than it is to manufacture that many shortbows.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/01/22 02:39:07


 
   
Made in au
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





 japehlio wrote:
Hell yeah, or if certain throwing weapons could be used as an 'out-of-sync' shot as you charge in...
Especially as that is pretty much what throwing axes/javelins are for...


Definitely. And that should also apply to anything that's Quick to Fire. Being able to fire a volley of pistol shots before crashing into the enemy would not only make pistoliers a little closer to being worth their points, it'd just be plain cool.

“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”

Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. 
   
 
Forum Index » The Old World & Legacy Warhammer Fantasy Discussion
Go to: