Switch Theme:

The Unit Cost Project  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





I've started working on a spreadsheet to get a bit closer to ascertaining a true cost value for various attributes and Special Rules. We often say one unit is better than another, but there's an awful lot of stuff in the mix. I can't really post the spreadsheet, because it has all the stats and values for everything. I'm just doing this with 8th edition new army books, as it's a brave new world.

Below is the data collected for melee-only Core troops in 8th. That includes everything from gnoblars to ironguts. If something had a weapon by default that increased stats (halberd, GW) I included it, even though it's not technically an attribute. Forsaken I made 2 A.

AVERAGES: (avg = total/# of values. Median = sort by value and midpoint of low->high, equal number above and below. Mode = most common value)
M: 4.5 (median: 4, mode: 4)
WS: 2.94 (median: 3, mode: 3)
BS: 2.11 (median: 3, mode: 3)
S: 3.33 (median: 3, mode: 3)
T: 3.89 (median: 3, mode: 3)
W: 1.22 (median: 1, mode: 1)
I: 2.72 (median: 3, mode: 3)
A: 1.5 (median: 1, mode: 1)
LD: 6.05 (median: 7, mode: 7)
Cost: 10.02
avg cost throwing out top 2/bottom 2 avg: 7.28
avg cost throwing out top 4/bottom 4 avg: 6.3
mode cost: 6
median cost: 6

So that is your average Core unit above. The low LD takes into consideration all the undead and goblins and such. The very high avg cost is skewed by WoC and Ogres, as there's only so low you can go (2.5 in this case) but the high value is indeed high. I like the 6 or 6.3 average as it clears out all the gobbos and elites. Movement is also skewed a bit because no one is slower than 4 and it makes up the vast majority of instances, but there are a handful of units faster.

For Special Rules, 66.67% have some form of armor and/or shield. The average armor save is 5.42 (including savage orc warpaint). Though WoC tends to make this avg higher and the most common is 6+.

In terms of cost, the surest determinants were being above the average in:
-Wounds (if above avg, 100% = most costly)
-Attacks (if above avg, 100% = most costly)
-Toughness (if above avg, 85.7% = most costly)
-Strength (if above avg, 80% = most costly)
-Movement (if above avg, 66.7% = most costly)
-Leadership, the avg was dragged down by undead but mostly people were 7, with the 8s being some of the most costly.
-Weaponskill, the avg was dragged down by undead and if rouned up to 3, most of the highest values were in the middle of the list in terms of cost
-Initiative, was not especially representative of cost, maybe tilting slightly past midpoint (gnoblars, night goblins, spearmen, halbidiers, etc. being relatively fast)

This could be viewed as those attributes being most valuable in order of importance. Though other special rules influence it a lot as well.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2013/02/11 20:03:31


   
Made in us
Nimble Pistolier



Shangri-La

Forgot toughness in your chart.
   
Made in au
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





Interesting work, thanks.

I wonder if undead and the like should have their leadership included, as they don't really use it (unbreakable & crumble). Take them out and leadership might move up to 7.

Interesting work on what determines price, and it looks like it it matches what I've observed, but what do you mean by '% = most costly'? For instance, 85.7% of troops with T4 were most costly, what do you mean by that?

“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”

Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Stoupe wrote:
Forgot toughness in your chart.

Oops. In.

I wonder if undead and the like should have their leadership included, as they don't really use it (unbreakable & crumble). Take them out and leadership might move up to 7.

Interesting work on what determines price, and it looks like it it matches what I've observed, but what do you mean by '% = most costly'? For instance, 85.7% of troops with T4 were most costly, what do you mean by that?

Well, their LD does have uses. In attribute tests and their crumble, where it's super important. Maybe do the same thing and drop the 2 hi/lows. Basically it's probably slightly under 7.

Without showing too much GW stats, the % means I looked to see if they were over avg in that attribute. If they were, did they occupy the most expensive units (sorted by cost). So cost was the driver, then I looked over and saw, yup, anyone with Attacks > avg (and there were 5 of them) were in the top 5 most expensive slots. So stuff like Orcs, with their T4 aren't that expensive. And Halbidier broke up the Strength list. It's just there were more units with high T than high S. They seem to be evaluated about the same. But also surprising is Attacks seems to be on par with Wounds.

I'll try and firm up all these numbers and rules a bit with the objective of being able to plug in values and having it be equal to any other unit (within reason). Obviously undead aren't so valuable to lizardmen, but huge valuable to TK. If people can agree on those, can expand to ranged troops. Then maybe horses. MC. Stuff like that.

Edit. You could also presumably use the logic to look at your 6th/7th book and find what is OP/UP/Just Right.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/11 09:43:40


   
Made in ae
Frenzied Berserker Terminator






Looks good!
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Upgraded Attacks avg to include Stomp. Though avg probably isn't the best choice. Maybe median or mode or something.

Added median and mode values. Which comes up with values you'd expect.

I.e., 4,3,3,3,3,1,3,1,7 with a 6+ save costing 6. That's the median/mode Core melee unit. As middle-of-the-road as you can get. So off the cuff, the new Marauders are right there except no armor and +1I. I'm not sure whether the options available are factored-in. An empire unit is basically the same except they can't take marks and other weapons, for instance.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/02/11 20:07:54


   
 
Forum Index » The Old World & Legacy Warhammer Fantasy Discussion
Go to: