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Made in gb
Ghastly Grave Guard



Uk

I was inspired to do this after reading Nagash the Sorcerer.

Neferm Daughter of the Sun: 180 points

M-4
WS-3
BS-3
S-3
T- 3
W-3
I-3
A-1
LD-8

Special Rules: Death Shriek, undead, Daughter of the Sun
Wargear: Light Armour, hand weapon

Daughter of the Sun: Once per turn, at the start of the magic phase, Neferem may target one enemy spell caster within 24' (line of sight not required). Roll a 6D and add the result to Neferem's unmodified leadership, do the same with the target. If Neferem's score is lower nothing happens and the game resumes normally, however if her score exceeds that of her opponents then that spell caster may not cast any spells until the start of the next magic phase. She cannot target the same caster multiple times.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2013/04/01 02:10:01


 
   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




WA, USA

The spell loss is too much, imo. The disruption to casting is fine at this power level, it's actually pretty good, just cut the lost spells and you got a winner, I say.

 Ouze wrote:

Afterward, Curran killed a guy in the parking lot with a trident.
 
   
Made in gb
Sinister Shapeshifter




The Lair of Vengeance....Poole.

The spell loss is bad, but when she can't cast, I'd say she needs to do something.

Malifaux masters owned: Guild(Sans McCabe), Outcasts(Sans Misaki), Arcanists(Sans Marcus)

Check my blog that I just started: http://unionfaux.blogspot.co.uk/ 
   
Made in gb
Ghastly Grave Guard



Uk

I wasn't really sure if I should inlude the spell loss, as you see there is an edit where. Decided to put it in but reflecting on it, it's way to much for a 180 point model. You could wreck the opponents entire setup if they lost say miazador or invocation of nehek


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 thedarkavenger wrote:
The spell loss is bad, but when she can't cast, I'd say she needs to do something.

She can death shriek.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/17 22:55:37


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





First off, good use of not having a 4+ ward. Or KB.

You've taken Glean Magic but put it on a better, more reliable platform. So that's not good.

No casters have LD9 as a hero. Almost in any army. Only the best Lord spellcasters in the game are going to have even an equal fight. So making it a D6 is extra cheese because you basically have like a 2/3rd's chance of this always working and it has a pretty huge range. You could almost forgo rolling and just pick some caster and say "you're screwed." It should be a simple LD test and they shouldn't lose a spell. I'd go so far as saying they can't cast ONE spell randomly chosen from their list. Also change the wording to be that if it's equal or lower nothing happens.

I would make the character herself a little better. Right now she's just a carrier for this very OP ability. And thus maybe there's a reason to make the ability be more than it should be.


Turn the tables a bit and see how a combat hero would dig it:

Once per turn you can select a target in 24" and your BS6 can select a target and they both roll a D6 and add their BS. If the enemy is less, they permanently lose 1Str and 1T and 1W and can't attack in CC this round. That's about the same I'd say.

Because after 2 casts a Hero caster is basically useless except for a channel attempt or dispel, and he was totally shut down for 2 rounds. It would take 3-4 rounds for a Lord caster to be useless and in the meantime they did nothing. Sooo, pretty OP IMHO.

   
Made in gb
Ghastly Grave Guard



Uk

DukeRustfield wrote:
First off, good use of not having a 4+ ward. Or KB.

You've taken Glean Magic but put it on a better, more reliable platform. So that's not good.

No casters have LD9 as a hero. Almost in any army. Only the best Lord spellcasters in the game are going to have even an equal fight. So making it a D6 is extra cheese because you basically have like a 2/3rd's chance of this always working and it has a pretty huge range. You could almost forgo rolling and just pick some caster and say "you're screwed." It should be a simple LD test and they shouldn't lose a spell. I'd go so far as saying they can't cast ONE spell randomly chosen from their list. Also change the wording to be that if it's equal or lower nothing happens.

I would make the character herself a little better. Right now she's just a carrier for this very OP ability. And thus maybe there's a reason to make the ability be more than it should be.


Turn the tables a bit and see how a combat hero would dig it:


Once per turn you can select a target in 24" and your BS6 can select a target and they both roll a D6 and add their BS. If the enemy is less, they permanently lose 1Str and 1T and 1W and can't attack in CC this round. That's about the same I'd say.

Because after 2 casts a Hero caster is basically useless except for a channel attempt or dispel, and he was totally shut down for 2 rounds. It would take 3-4 rounds for a Lord caster to be useless and in the meantime they did nothing. Sooo, pretty OP IMHO.

Most people take more than one sorcerer she only neutralises one and they no longer lose any spells so I don't see what your point is, it's really not that OP, a lord spell caster will usually beat her anyway. She dies very easily so I don't really see how she is overpowered. Have you read the book because if so you will see this is exactly as she functions. I mean I know we can't base characters off books otherwise space marines would be 10 everything but I feel this is an accurate and fair representation.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I mean come on protecting her is a 6+ armour save. I would hardly sa she is "reliable"

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/17 23:24:54


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





BaconUprising wrote:

Most people take more than one sorcerer she only neutralises one and they no longer lose any spells so I don't see what your point is

Okay, but I choose not to. There. You've won the game. Because you've neutralized a Lord Caster worth 400+ points using less than half that who also has other abilities.

it's really not that OP, a lord spell caster will usually beat her anyway.

No. They won't.
Let's reach to the left:
WoC sorcerer lord loses
DoC greater daemon loses
Ogre slaughtermaster loses
VC Master necro loses
TK Liche High Priest loses
Empire Battle Wizard Lord loses
etc.

So yeah. You're wrong. And those are all Lord characters who cost more and may be the backbone of an entire army which you can negate with a hero choice with at least a 1/6th advantage and no disadvantage for trying/failing.

She dies very easily so I don't really see how she is overpowered.

To what? How? She's got 24" range. You can stick her in a bunker. This is her sole job. She will refuse all challenges. Nothing's going to kill her.

Have you read the book because if so you will see this is exactly as she functions.

If you want to write a book, then write a book. I can write about a character, The Giant Bat of Batsylvania that when it batfarts the entire planet is destroyed. But it would be a pretty imbalanced character in this game and I suspect if I made the rules for it, people would tell me that.

You don't need to take this personally. If you don't want it balanced, you don't need input. But if someone posts something, I assume they want feedback on whether it's balanced in the game.


In game-ese she is basically always going to be cost-effective unless the enemy does not bring a Wizard or unless they have a Slann or a handful of SC Wizards who have LD 9. Even then I would say she is cost-effective because it doesn't hurt you to try and if you succeed, a Slann not casting for a round and losing a spell basically trashes Lizardmen (and just about anyone else). I.e., why would you never take this character if given the option? I can't think of a reason. If that's the case, she's likely OP.

Again, this isn't a slam at you. Maybe it's exactly like that in the book. I don't know. Not really concerned. But books are generally pretty...epic in scale. Unless you're reading about a statline 3 farmer in Missouri just trying to make ends meet. He's only like 5 pts.

   
Made in gb
Ghastly Grave Guard



Uk

If you are stupid enogh to bring only one wizard than you are so crap you deserve to lose end of. There aren't to many units that are going to be able to keep her alive. One decently timed charge her and her crappy little unit will be dead very quickly.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Hmm, I must have missed the requirement that she be put in a "crappy little unit."

Just call the ability:

So Crap Deserve To Lose
This unit cannot join other units. Cannot be within 12" of friendly units. Must charge any enemy unit that has a reasonable chance of killing her. Player must yell, "you are stupid" over and over while resolving the charge.


With that ability, I think everything will be square and you can call her ready for play.

Oh, and let me quote your entire original post, just so you don't rewrite it like you tend to do and people don't know what I referenced.

If you are stupid enogh to bring only one wizard than you are so crap you deserve to lose end of. There aren't to many units that are going to be able to keep her alive. One decently timed charge her and her crappy little unit will be dead very quickly.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/18 08:40:38


   
Made in gb
Ghastly Grave Guard



Uk

Just for your information I never edit and rewrite my posts if I have written something a lot of people don't agree with I put across what I meant to say in another post to avoid conclusion so not only are you wrong there but also I think this thread would probably run better without snide petty comments like the one above. Bother to write something meaningful or don't post.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





BaconUprising wrote:
Bother to write something meaningful or don't post.

BaconUprising wrote:
If you are stupid enogh to bring only one wizard than you are so crap you deserve to lose end of.


   
Made in gb
Ghastly Grave Guard



Uk

What exactly is your point?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Have you actually made any constructive comments?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/18 22:07:30


 
   
Made in gb
Sinister Shapeshifter




The Lair of Vengeance....Poole.

Duke is right though. If you stop my level 4 casting, my army becomes useless. And the fact that she can do it repeatedly to make sure I get no magic is pretty bent. Make it once per game, and it will be fine. But as it is, it is far to(o) good.

Malifaux masters owned: Guild(Sans McCabe), Outcasts(Sans Misaki), Arcanists(Sans Marcus)

Check my blog that I just started: http://unionfaux.blogspot.co.uk/ 
   
Made in gb
Ghastly Grave Guard



Uk

 thedarkavenger wrote:
Duke is right though. If you stop my level 4 casting, my army becomes useless. And the fact that she can do it repeatedly to make sure I get no magic is pretty bent. Make it once per game, and it will be fine. But as it is, it is far to(o) good.

Finally some helpful input, how about you cannot target the same wizard twice? This wouldn't ruin the game if you neutralised a lv 4 but could seriously help your army out for a turn.
   
Made in gb
Sinister Shapeshifter




The Lair of Vengeance....Poole.

If you stick the can't cast the same wizard twice, and removed the lose spells thing. Perhaps copying spells could work. I've been fairly interested in seeing how that would work in game for some time now and I think it could be interesting.

Malifaux masters owned: Guild(Sans McCabe), Outcasts(Sans Misaki), Arcanists(Sans Marcus)

Check my blog that I just started: http://unionfaux.blogspot.co.uk/ 
   
Made in us
Evasive Eshin Assassin





A few comments:

1. Why is she a T3 W3 Ld9 Hero? T4 W2 Ld8 is the general standard.

2. She and her opponent roll a D6 and add their Ld. If she beats them, they can't cast spells.
I don't think this is that bad at all. It's got an okay range, and no line of sight is required, so that makes it better, but the odds are usually around 50-50 that nothing happens.
Furthermore, her fragility and this spell's range go well together. She'll only survive as long as you keep her in a bunker, and out of any serious threat's charge range, but that goes against taking advantage of her ability.

I could see how people might still think it's a little too good, but maybe if you made the range 18" and/or a bound spell, that'd take care of it?

3. @BaconUprising: DukeRustfield knows what he's talking about. I'll admit, he doesn't often seem interested in wording his suggestions in a way that is less than condescending or scornful, but the theory behind it all is sound.
And, sorry to say, you can be just as offensive. Case and point:
BaconUprising wrote:
If you are stupid enogh to bring only one wizard than you are so crap you deserve to lose end of.
You insult people and then get sensitive about their response? C'mon, man. I'll back you up when other people go too far, but only if you don't do the same thing back right away.

 
   
Made in gb
Ghastly Grave Guard



Uk

Sorry if not clear but that wasn't me trying to insult him I was just stating that it would be stupid which it would be. I got a bit annoyed about the comment that I edit my posts which I dont. Only the character post. Thanks for the input though!
   
Made in us
Evasive Eshin Assassin





It is not stupid. It's an option. Maybe someone wants to play a less competitive list, or maybe that one Wizard is a super durable point-sink, like a Slaan.
But even if no one ever--ever--took less than two Wizards, Duke's point would still be valid. The potential for this character to wreck 1-Wizard lists is very high. People might play a certain way now, but there's no telling what new army books or editions hold.

And this isn't a case of you being unclear; your message was very clearly and very obviously insulting. If you want to say that you misspoke, that's a different thing.
If you were annoyed/offended/etc., stating such is fine. But the moment you let that emotion leak into other statements, your credulity suffers.
That goes for everyone, by the way!

 
   
Made in gb
Ghastly Grave Guard



Uk

Well I didn't mean to be insulting, my point is Neferm wouldnt be allowed in a competative list so she can't play against those armies anyway. If I was playing a friendly, which is pretty much the only thing she will be allowed in then I'm not going to be using her to utterly ruin my opponents magic phase. She can now only do it to the same character once
   
Made in us
Evasive Eshin Assassin





I don't think whether or not a character could ever see tournament play should factor into their rules. The game, being a series of numbers overlaid with a certain literary concept, doesn't care about that sort of thing. Balance is balance is balance.

Making her ability only threaten each Wizard only once seems like a far step in the other direction. What say people about an 18" range, or making it a Bound Spell?

 
   
Made in gb
Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan





Fareham

Change it so it cant trget the same caster twice in a row and it seems pretty good.
I'd possibly drop her to LD8 though as thats pretty damn high for a hero level character.

Usually 3 wounds is a bit off for a hero, but considering shes T3 and a vampire, thats not too bad actually.

Also, people are saying she cant be killed.
Great, shes in a bunker, now what happens when she has to take a S, T or I test?
50% chance she dies in that test alone.

   
Made in us
Evasive Eshin Assassin





I'd do this:

Neferm Daughter of the Sun: 180 points

M4 WS3 BS3 S3 T4 W2 I5 A1 Ld8

Special Rules: Death Shriek, Undead, Daughter of the Sun
Wargear: Light Armour, hand weapon

Daughter of the Sun: Bound Spell (power level 5) Once at the start of each magic phase, Neferem may target one enemy spell caster within 18". The target and Neferem each roll a D6 and add their Leadership. If Neferem's score is higher, the target may not cast any spells until the start of the next magic phase.

-Is there anything else you can call that ability, though? It's just that "So-and-so, the Such-and-Such" having the ability "Such-and-Such" seems redundant.

 
   
Made in gb
Ghastly Grave Guard



Uk

That's basically what mine is now just with one LD lower do you think she should be 8? It actually sounds more in keeping her being a hero and all. Not really sure what else to call it though. It's a hard ability to name appropriately...
   
Made in us
Evasive Eshin Assassin





...yes. I and everyone else who's posted has said to keep her Ld8. She's a Hero, and she uses her Ld as a weapon, so logic supports it, and you'll get dirty looks for raising it higher.
Same thing for W.
Unless Tomb King spellcasters also have extra wounds?

I really don't think her potential to shut down enemy spellcasters is all that horrifying, though. She does that and Shriek Limiting it to once/caster seems silly when you can do what I did: shorten the range so it's easier to avoid, give your opponent a means to stop it, and make it cost you some power dice.

 
   
 
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