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Made in us
Calculating Commissar




pontiac, michigan; usa

So this is probably an OP idea and probably only effects one or a couple factions but I figure ethereal weapons would be a weapon type. For the most part it's unaffected by the strength of the user however it avoids things like normal armor saves but allows ward saves. The point behind it is an ethereal weapon can go right through normal armor as it's a weapon not of this plane of existence. There's also the possibility that you have to roll against a user's initiative rather than their toughness but that would probably be odd. My point for this is that it might not matter on the toughness of a creature if hit by an ethereal weapon. That said it'd probably be against the toughness just like anything else.

Other possibilities for ethereal weapons are the fact that even though there is no strength bonuses it's easier to swing or at the least prevents the 'Always strikes last' problem of great weapons. Ethereal weapons would be very powerful so i'd imagine they'd only be used in super elite units, by characters or through a spell like that shadow spell (okkam's mindrazor which gives a strength equal to leadership).

I kind of got the idea of ethereal weapons through a cross of magical weapons, ethereal units and the weapons summoned from oblivion from the elder scrolls: skyrim game. I'd imagine wielding such a weapon is very easy and would even allow some units to march and shoot without penalty like 'quick to fire' weapons. Anyway this is just an idea. Perhaps it could be used for wood elves even though vampire counts or similar seems likely given the ethereal units.

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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





They already have those. They are called no armor save allowed. If you want, you can say "oh, and you can't use your strength."

I can't see (m)any units who would ever want to equip them. Only heroes could buy them and only combat heroes are going to spend points on a CC weapon. And most combat heroes have good Str. Even if they don't, it's still much better to get +S instead of avoiding armor because just because you hit doesn't mean you wound and if you're fighting monsters or other high T enemies, your sword all of a sudden makes you weaker vs. them.

It doesn't matter what you call them. A sword that ignores armor can be called a Marshmallow Pillow. The only thing that matters is it ignores armor. Not the fluff. You don't balance on fluff.

   
Made in us
Evasive Eshin Assassin





Ethereal weapons would pretty clearly be magical; this isn't the sort of thing you'd offer to a whole unit of dudes, except for those super-special ones (see Sisters of Avelorn).

A weapon that ignores armour saves could easily be considered ethereal.
As for not using Strength, comparing your WS to their I, not comparing it to their Tounghness, etc., just look at the rules for Vampire Count Wraiths. That's exactly what you're talking about.

D&D covered these concepts with Ghost Touch and Brilliant Energy. I'd look their for inspiration.
Oh, and I wouldn't make them ranged weapons. A ghost-y bow shooting ghost-y arrows just doesn't have the same feel as a ghost-y battleaxe.

 
   
Made in us
Calculating Commissar




pontiac, michigan; usa

Some of this was just a bunch of examples. The effects of ethereal weapons might be entirely different. As I said it would get rid of any initiative penalties of things like great weapons. Possibly cairn wraiths could strike at their initiative rather than that of their weapons (though that probably wouldn't help too much).

Part of the reason I was unsure of giving ethereal weapons or attacks the ability to go through armor is that it could be really ridiculously potent in some cases.

I already know about the cairn wraith ability which I think is called 'chill grasp' (off the top of my head). My idea was something similar but for a lot of ethereal units or just ethereal weapons. Basically ethereal weapons count as magical but they avoid armor possibly and maybe roll against initiative instead of toughness and possibly rolling vs WS as normal. This in my mind includes shooting weapons.

For shooting weapons I imagine there will never be any movement penalties regardless of normal restrictions and they should always be able to shoot if they wish. As for other penalties like long range I dunno if that would matter too much either as aim may be harder but I figure things like wind and gravity don't really effect ethereal arrows and similar. Basically it'd be like having 'quick to fire' weapons with the range of bows that also go through armor but wound against initiative. Personally if nothing else I think a unit like this could totally own monsters and war machines unless it's handler based of course :/.

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Made in us
Evasive Eshin Assassin





You're all over the place on this one. Not really sure how to respond, but here goes:

- How does a non-ethereal model carry an ethereal weapon? He's either got to have some serious hoodoo of his own, or the item in question would have to exist in both worlds.

- Ethereal models have no physical strength. Ethereal weapons have no physical weight. I'd say they cancel out, and great weapons still ASL.

- there was an Ogre weapon that compared your WS to their Initiative, because it was impossible to parry. Still silly though; if a model would be better at dodging than parrying, why don't they just do that for all incoming attacks?
Comparing Strength to Initiative is tons more drastic, though. You go from a table where you hit on a 3, 4, or 5+, to 2+ through 6+. Models with lower I usually have higher T.
And Toughness doesn't just come from being a dragon or an ogre. The Sphinx is T8, and I doubt ghost weapons would hurt him easier than regular ones. Or at all.
Plus, it's making the game more complicated. Which we don't need.

- "phase arrows" and all that sort of thing become an instant headache. They're immune to gravity and wind? Then why don't they just hit every model in their path, ignoring hills, buildings, etc?
It just gets silly.

 
   
 
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