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Made in cy
Dakka Veteran





Cyprus and London

Hi everyone. I've been thinking heavily the last few days on this subject and want some opinions. Why do the pre heracy dreds look so much better and pack a much better punch than post heracy ones. It would look more sensible the other way round since the contemptors look agile and all round more modern. The standard dreds I mean look cack in comparison. They look blocky and they look like they walk with the 80's robo style music in the background. I dunno has there been a visual mistake with this that upsets other players or collectors?

Only through chaos can peace be obtained,
Destruction is our future but we shall not fall from it, We will rise up stronger than ever before and stand together united as one, 
   
Made in ca
Sneaky Striking Scorpion





Ontario Canada

Fluff answer - Contemptors represent a better grasp of technology and the ability to create STC plans in the 30k. Also remember that space marine terminator armor is technically "tactical dreadnought armor" so at one point they 2 shared some design similarity.

in 40k technology is sliding backwards, and you can only build the STC plans you scavenge.

Practical Answer - Forge world wanted to make some cool gak.


 
   
Made in cy
Dakka Veteran





Cyprus and London

It sounds a bit far fetched. I already heard a number of times how forge world justify their better looking parts but realistically it's hard to believe that such advanced space marine legions had access to much better stuff and after the Horus heresy the damages were so great it became a lost technology like so many more things in the list.

I guess this can can implied in certain aspects of our history too for instance the pyramids. How they built them is a long lost technology (if indeed it was us that built them in the first place) but I can see how there would be some aspects of black spotting some historical events or technology resulting from a catastrophic event or a war etc.

Interesting still that 40k is in some respects backwards when they have their libraries still in-tacked. Or are they been kept unknown for a reason?

Only through chaos can peace be obtained,
Destruction is our future but we shall not fall from it, We will rise up stronger than ever before and stand together united as one, 
   
Made in nz
Boom! Leman Russ Commander




New Zealand

A lot of it stems from a mistrust of technology, long before the events of the Crusade/Heresy mankind created AI which almost wiped the race out. That's why there's no computers in 40K.

5000
 
   
Made in us
Crazed Spirit of the Defiler






The libraries are NOT intact. Mankind's repository for almost all scientific knowledge was Mars, and during the Heresy, warring factions within the Mechanicum released lots of nasty weapons; sentient computer viruses, Chaos scrapcode (think of a daemonic virus/malware/data so corrupted it destroys all around it(like windows 8), or binary code composed of ONLY 2's and 3's), EMP weapons, and all sorts of other data or hardware destroying weapons.

Not only that, but the warfare on the surface also wormed its digital way all the way down into the "prison" where the Men of Iron AIs were stored, freeing them, and corrupting many of them with Chaos. So, not only were 90% of the libraries completely obliterated, but in the small bit that's left, there remain some of those techno-daemons/malevolent AIs/super-powered computer viruses. Whenever you try and regain some of that lost knowledge, if you can even recover the data, there's a fairly good chance that information will try to kill you. Digging that new plan for a laspistol you just found? Too bad for you the blueprint is telling you how to build it wrong, so that when you pull the trigger it catastrophically overloads, killing you.


Also, I totally have to argue that pyramid thing you said lol. We definitely built those. The only "lost" resource we don't have that the Egyptians used to build them? The forced labor of tens of thousands of workers.

@ TheCustomLime: right you are I just got too swept up in the moment to pay attention to particulars

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/03/03 08:30:48


Daemons--5000
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Daemons--15000
Word Bearers--10000

Total investment in the Forces of Chaos: 38,000

 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





Southern California, USA

 greg0985 wrote:
The libraries are NOT intact. Mankind's repository for almost all scientific knowledge was Mars, and during the Heresy, warring factions within the Mechanicum released lots of nasty weapons; sentient computer viruses, Chaos scrapcode (think of a daemonic virus/malware/data so corrupted it destroys all around it(like windows 8), or binary code composed of ONLY 2's and 3's), EMP weapons, and all sorts of other data or hardware destroying weapons.

Not only that, but the warfare on the surface also wormed its digital way all the way down into the "prison" where the Men of Iron AIs were stored, freeing them, and corrupting many of them with Chaos. So, not only were 90% of the libraries completely obliterated! but in the small bit that's left, there remain some of those techno-daemons/malevolent AIs/super-powered computer viruses. Whenever you try and regain some of that lost knowledge, if you can even recover the data, there's a fairly good chance that information will try to kill you. Digging that new plan for a laspistol you just found? Too bad for you the blueprint is telling you how to build it wrong, so that when you pull the trigger it catastrophically overloads, killing you.


Also, I totally have to argue that pyramid thing you said lol. We definitely built those. The only "lost" resource we don't have that the Egyptians used to build them? The forced labor of tens of thousands of slaves.


Umm, not to take this off topic, but the Egyptian workers that built the Pyramids were paid laborers.

On topic, as a general rule in 40k the earlier something is made the better. In addition to the destruction of the Horus Heresy there are some technological items that are only produced on one Forge World. If those Forge Worlds are lost the item in question is lost forever. The AdMech is stupid like that.

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Made in cy
Dakka Veteran





Cyprus and London

Personally the pyramids if you do your research will reveal some pretty factual evidence that these things possibly built by us or not were not used for what the history books describe. I won't get into this as it's off topic but that subject is definitely more than meets the eye I can assure you.

Ok it makes sense with the lock down of AI and computer based techno as I didn't think before the heresy there was no reason to fear things like the corruption of chaos etc. I guess like it or not they have had to go primal of sorts just to limit the many probable catastrophes which would be lurking around every corner.

It makes more sense to me now why things would be more "old style" in present day wh40k

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/03 08:48:36


Only through chaos can peace be obtained,
Destruction is our future but we shall not fall from it, We will rise up stronger than ever before and stand together united as one, 
   
Made in gb
Moustache-twirling Princeps




United Kingdom

'Imperial Armour Volume Two – Second Edition: War Machines of the Adeptus Astartes' has a lot of fluff/background on dreadnoughts. Short version - Castaferrum Class Dreadnoughts (the GW plastic ones) were designed & built for the Space Marines whereas the Contemptors were older and also used by the AdMech & Custodes. Also, being smaller the Castaferrum is mote tactically flexible.
   
Made in us
Crazed Spirit of the Defiler






beast_gts wrote:
'Imperial Armour Volume Two – Second Edition: War Machines of the Adeptus Astartes' has a lot of fluff/background on dreadnoughts. Short version - Castaferrum Class Dreadnoughts (the GW plastic ones) were designed & built for the Space Marines whereas the Contemptors were older and also used by the AdMech & Custodes. Also, being smaller the Castaferrum is mote tactically flexible.


Also, if I remember correctly, Contemptors have a shared lineage with some of the Legio Cybernetica robots too, right?

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Total investment in the Forces of Chaos: 38,000

 
   
Made in nl
Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces






The regression of technology is a major thing in 40k. The contemptor is better because at the time it was made, human technology was at a higher level. This regression is a logical consequence of the Age of Strife, Horus Heresy and all the other nasty stuff which happens to humanity.
1d4chan has an excellent explanation of it which is quoted below. I would also like to note that major regressions in technological level do happen frequently in real life human history as well.
Spoiler:
Why Everything is so Grimdark

"The Mechanicus does NOT have the technology. They haven't been living on some fancy paradise planet since pre-Fall. Mars is an anarchic nightmare shithole the moment you leave the safe zones into the kilometres of labyrinthine corridors beneath it full of rogue machinery, self-aware and malevolent AI from before the Fall, and the daemon programs of the Heresy. EVERYTHING in the databases is fethed. The databases are fragmented over the entire surface to the extent that it would be impossible to see one tenth of the total files in the ludicrously extended life of a Magos even assuming that they are completely safe to visit. And they are not.

The files have been corrupted into madness by the Fall, and the unleashing of the most potent informational warfare systems ever to exist to defeat the Iron Men. Nearly all of Mars was rendered uninhabitable, what they live in now is built on the top of the ruins. They send archeotech expeditions in to find gak, nearly all of them never come back. The sheer number of rogue war machine running around in there is sufficient to rape the mind. Then came the Heresy, which was not earth-exclusive. Mars as the second most critical planet in the Imperium was the site of fighting nearly as ferocious as on Terra, with Mechanicus loyalists and Hereteks fighting tooth, nail, and mechadendrite everywhere. Ancient machines were unleashed, viruses both normal and daemonic unleashed into all the computer systems. Nearly every single stored record on Mars was rendered unusable, and those that survived are half the time self-aware and don't like you, or daemonic and actively try to kill you.

If you come back with a schematic, it is almost certainly gibberish, and if it isn't, it's probably corrupted into uselessness. If it does come back whole it was probably malevolently fethed with so that instead of a Lasgun power cell it's a fething grenade set to detonate the second you finish building it. Why do you think they want off-world STCs so damned much if they had them all here? The fething Heresy is why. Off-world they only have to contend with the Fall's war and its effects on the machinery plus twenty thousand years of degradation with no maintenance. But at least off-world it'll probably just not work instead of actively seeking to kill you.

Why do you think they seek to placate the Machine Spirit? It's because it exists. The fragments of trillions of self-aware programs, flourishing during the Dark Age of Technology and shattered by Man in his war with the Iron men, imprisoning the few who had not set themselves irrevocably into the machinery, a prison smashed wide open by the Heresy. Everything that can hold programming in the Imperium has a shard of a program in it. EVERYTHING. And you'd better fething please it or it will do everything in its power to make your day gak. Sure, if it's a Lasgun it'll just not work or start shooting off rounds by itself, but if you piss off a Land Raider you can say bye-bye to half a continent. They apply these principles to things without spirits by habit, since they're so used to dealing with tanks that if not talked to just right might go rogue and annihilate the Manufactorum before they can be killed.

This is why they do not like ANYONE fething with technology, because it is so rare to find anything that just works it is critical it not be compromised. That, and they do not have the actual knowledge to feth with it intelligently, just through experimentation, which inevitably leads to slaughter. Pressing buttons to see what works is fine in a 21st century computer, but it is a very stupid thing to do at the helm of a 410th century starship with the destructive power to end solar systems. The entire knowledge base of humanity was lost. Not forgotten, but outright lost. Everything at all, poof. Nobody knows anything because the Fall fethed everything up and the Heresy double-fethed it. To rebuild the theoretical framework needed to design new technologies that don't kill everyone near them would require starting from the ground up. They don't have the time, they never have, and they never will.

This gets on to the point of war and what it does to technology. Someone will parrot that it makes it go much faster. Yes, it makes practical applications of technology go much faster. It also utterly stops all research on the scientific theories behind those technologies. This means that when war chugs along for a decade or two things get done. It means when it goes on too long you run out of theories to turn into technologies, and then you run out of technologies to apply. You stagnate. When you have been fighting in a war for survival in a drastically overextended empire, this is what happens. You are desperate for any extra materiel that can possibly be produced. Half your entire fething military might went rogue, smashed the half that stayed, leaving you with the tattered shreds of a war machine to keep hold of an empire that was reaching straining point with an army far larger. There is no time for the sort of applied research programs that took Man twenty five thousand years to develop, in a time of unprecedented growth and prosperity.

This is also why the Adeptus Mechanicus insists on cargo cultism. It's because when you are dealing with things you barely understand because everything you knew about them was destroyed it is the safest and most reliable option. The rituals do not exists for mysticism, they exist because they are the most practical means of building, repairing and maintaining the equipment they have with the knowledge surviving. You don't understand why pressing that button makes it go, because the manual tried to take over your brain and the copies are all unreadable and the research base that would let you reverse-engineer it does not exist and cannot be built.

Why are the Tau doing so well with their technology? Because they had peace. Eight thousand years unmolested by any enemy and they were helped the entire time by the most advanced biological race in the galaxy. Give the Imperium eight thousand years of peace and I can guarantee you it will be harder than it was during the Great Crusade.

Since some still don't get the idea, try this:

Build a library, fill it with all human knowledge. You take it elsewhere when you need a book from it, but the book is only a simplified copy. You don't understand the real book, and you don't need to. Nobody takes the real books anywhere because why would you, when there's a whole library there?

Now that library goes rogue and the maintenance machinery starts killing everyone any-fething-where near it. Where the feth did they all come from, you swear to god there weren't this many, and there weren't because they're using the library's information to fight their war. The government fights a battle that destroys the planet against these robots and tears apart the library to stop them using it, only to be destroyed in the process. The library is leveled, cast into flames, every book burned and every computer virus-laden.

Then comes a man who worked there. He talks to the few surviving library workers, assembles their information, and starts rebuilding a city around the library and expanding it as the librarians find little scraps of paper and fragmented bits of files that stuck together just right read something. They rebuild a library from scrap on the ashes of the old. It isn't a shadow on the glory of the old, but it is all they have.

Then the city turns on itself, kills its master, and the librarians turn to rage. Half of them kill the other half and destroy the remnants of the library because where they're going they won't need science. Everything burns, and the city is left to a scattered few survivors, walls open to the world, with the hungry predators circling.

The Adeptus Mechanicus is the sole surviving librarian, desperately scrabbling through the ashes of paper and splinters of hard drives for anything to help him and the city he needs to survive just a second longer.

The Imperium isn't grim because things suck by choice and could be fine if a sensible person came along. That sensible person wouldn't survive fifty seconds of the reality. The Imperium is grim because every single gak decision, every single sacrifice, every single death, every single man woman and child suffering a gak life in the worst conditions imaginable, is the absolute best that can be done. It is a study of the worst happening to everyone and what part of your humanity must be sacrificed today just to stand a chance of survival, and all it asks is whether or not it would have perhaps been better to die." -- Baron von Evilsatan

Error 404: Interesting signature not found

 
   
Made in gb
Leader of the Sept







The Contemptors look a lot like the old Epic scale dreadnoughts. I think its just another example of FW wanting to do cool stuff but having to do it in such a away that it doesn't interfere with the standard Codex entries.

Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!

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Made in gb
Junior Officer with Laspistol




Manchester, UK

Thanks for that Iron_Captain (and Baron von Evilsatan of course), it gave me a much firmer grasp on the setting. I don't think I ever realised just how grim 40k was, and I thought that it was pretty grim.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/03 14:09:44


The Tvashtan 422nd "Fire Leopards" - Updated 19/03/11

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Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut





Toronto

I think you're severely underestimating 1: How long 10,000 years is for things to degrade, and 2: how ass-backwards the Imperium of Man is. 40k Techpriests have to do a little sacred dance, light some candles, and apply stinky oil to a appease the tiny machine spirit that lives inside a toaster. It's a ridiculously over the top dark age. There is no one saying "hey, that would be a good idea to use this thing, because it's obviously better" , because there's a trillion people screaming "HERESY! BURN THE DEVIL BOOKS! LOGIC IS THE DOORWAY TO CHAOS!"

For about 500 years of human history, Europe took all that awesome knowledge of the romans, greeks, and ottomans, and just threw it out the window so they could roll around in the mud with their fingers in their ears. IoM is that, except instead of 500 years, its 10,000 years, and instead of Europe, its the entire galaxy.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/03 15:26:37


   
Made in cy
Dakka Veteran





Cyprus and London

I second the above post and the comments made by iron_captain it's all in context now how deeply grim the future is and how much sacrifice of human life us made just to continue being. Sad as well but like anything humans are too like viruses and whatever our environment or catastrophic events awaiting us we always find away to survive one way or another.

Only through chaos can peace be obtained,
Destruction is our future but we shall not fall from it, We will rise up stronger than ever before and stand together united as one, 
   
Made in us
Hellish Haemonculus






Boskydell, IL

S'funny - I've always hated the way contemptor dreads look. I find the "modern" ones much more aesthetically pleasing.

Although, to be fair, the first iteration of "modern" dreads from the Rogue Trader era bore a much closer resemblance to the contemptor pattern ones.

Welcome to the Freakshow!

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Made in us
The Marine Standing Behind Marneus Calgar





Upstate, New York

 Jimsolo wrote:
S'funny - I've always hated the way contemptor dreads look. I find the "modern" ones much more aesthetically pleasing.

Although, to be fair, the first iteration of "modern" dreads from the Rogue Trader era bore a much closer resemblance to the contemptor pattern ones.


Not a fan of the contemptors myself. I keep thinking they have a beer gut on them. I much prefer the walking refrigerators of the modern ones.

And while I’m a fan of RT nostalgia, the old dreads do look a little goofy.


   
Made in gb
Thunderhawk Pilot Dropping From Orbit





I HATE the box dreads, I was waiting for Contemptors to be released for 20 years (they are based off the Imperial Dreadnoughts from the EPIC Stompers box) - the only box Dreads I own are from the Assault on Black Reach boxes that I bought for the other contents.

It should be noted it was Sabretooth/Alan Merrit that chose that look for the Heresy, Forge World just followed through with it.

 
   
Made in cy
Dakka Veteran





Cyprus and London

I don't hate the look of the old box dreds but I like the contemplar dreds better only because they look like what they are. Because we have grown accustom to the standard GW dress we have learned to accept them as they are but because on the light shed about man kinds troubling episodes with technology it makes the standard dreds more acceptable to what they are and how they look.

I for one own 2 standards dreds but would want to include one or two contemplar dreds also.

This us possible right? Can some chapters of space marines post heresy run with Pre heresy dreds and still not bend them rules

Only through chaos can peace be obtained,
Destruction is our future but we shall not fall from it, We will rise up stronger than ever before and stand together united as one, 
   
Made in us
The Marine Standing Behind Marneus Calgar





Upstate, New York

 kerikhaos wrote:
I don't hate the look of the old box dreds but I like the contemplar dreds better only because they look like what they are. Because we have grown accustom to the standard GW dress we have learned to accept them as they are but because on the light shed about man kinds troubling episodes with technology it makes the standard dreds more acceptable to what they are and how they look.

I for one own 2 standards dreds but would want to include one or two contemplar dreds also.

This us possible right? Can some chapters of space marines post heresy run with Pre heresy dreds and still not bend them rules


From a fluff POV, it’s perfectly OK. Many chapters of marines have relics dating back to the heresy. You would be more likely to find them in a first or second founding chapter then one of the later ones, but I’m sure there are exceptions out there.

I think the FW rules for them say it’s OK to include them in 40k armies, but don’t actually own any books from FW, so that’s just running off of what I see posted here.

And even if you don’t like/want to use the official FW rules, if you keep it’s equipment to something a normal dread could use, I doubt anyone would bat an eye at you fielding the model as a normal/venerable dread. If you think it looks cool, no reason not to put it down on the table.

   
Made in ca
Wing Commander






 kerikhaos wrote:
I don't hate the look of the old box dreds but I like the contemplar dreds better only because they look like what they are. Because we have grown accustom to the standard GW dress we have learned to accept them as they are but because on the light shed about man kinds troubling episodes with technology it makes the standard dreds more acceptable to what they are and how they look.

I for one own 2 standards dreds but would want to include one or two contemplar dreds also.

This us possible right? Can some chapters of space marines post heresy run with Pre heresy dreds and still not bend them rules


Contemptors are present in the 41s millenium. Officially, new ones can't be produced, but FW has been hinting towards there's a few sources out there of "lost" technology, such as the Fire Raptor.

Generally speaking, you'll only see a contemptor in 1st or 2nd founding chapters. The only exception to that is the Minotaurs chapter, despite being a much later founding is exclusively equipped with Contemptors, lending more credence to the fact that the AdMech can produce them in very small numbers, or perhaps more but choose not to, which is also a running theme with the Mechanicus. They're perfectly capable of producing more advanced technology, but to do so might limit their stranglehold on the Imperium, or their own lower orders.

Therefore, I conclude, Valve should announce Half Life 2: Episode 3.
 
   
Made in us
Frenzied Berserker Terminator




Hatfield, PA

 Flinty wrote:
The Contemptors look a lot like the old Epic scale dreadnoughts. I think its just another example of FW wanting to do cool stuff but having to do it in such a away that it doesn't interfere with the standard Codex entries.


They look like more like the old dreadnoughts period, before they became washing machines on legs with weapons.

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Made in cy
Dakka Veteran





Cyprus and London

Great, well my chapter is first founding blood angels so I'm sure it will be ok.

What a great learning curve this thread has been - thanks to all

Only through chaos can peace be obtained,
Destruction is our future but we shall not fall from it, We will rise up stronger than ever before and stand together united as one, 
   
Made in gb
Tunneling Trygon






Carrickfergus, Northern Ireland

 Jimsolo wrote:
S'funny - I've always hated the way contemptor dreads look. I find the "modern" ones much more aesthetically pleasing.

Although, to be fair, the first iteration of "modern" dreads from the Rogue Trader era bore a much closer resemblance to the contemptor pattern ones.


I'd like to chime in with this sentiment. Dreadnoughts are one of the things I've always found cool about 40k, ever since I was a little spawnling and I was first exposed through an issue of White Dwarf that my older sister's friend left in our house. Sure, the pelvic girdle could use some adjustment so they could realistically move (like they did in Dawn of War and Space Marine), but Contemptors just look like giant obese Space Marines. This is also why I hate Venerable Dreadnoughts - everything about them is cool, except for the silly little helmet shrine that makes them look like, again, a giant obese Space Marine.

Sieg Zeon!

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Made in gb
Hallowed Canoness





Between

The Contemptor also allowed the reintroduction of Mortis-pattern Dreadnoughts, which for some reason have been stolen from the Dark Angels and never given back...



"That time I only loaded the cannon with powder. Next time, I will fill it with jewels and diamonds and they will cut you to shrebbons!" - Nogbad the Bad. 
   
Made in cy
Dakka Veteran





Cyprus and London

The only thing now is find an unwanted Contemptor on eBay for cheap those things are big bucks new

Only through chaos can peace be obtained,
Destruction is our future but we shall not fall from it, We will rise up stronger than ever before and stand together united as one, 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Frozen Ocean wrote:
 Jimsolo wrote:
S'funny - I've always hated the way contemptor dreads look. I find the "modern" ones much more aesthetically pleasing.

Although, to be fair, the first iteration of "modern" dreads from the Rogue Trader era bore a much closer resemblance to the contemptor pattern ones.


I'd like to chime in with this sentiment. Dreadnoughts are one of the things I've always found cool about 40k, ever since I was a little spawnling and I was first exposed through an issue of White Dwarf that my older sister's friend left in our house. Sure, the pelvic girdle could use some adjustment so they could realistically move (like they did in Dawn of War and Space Marine), but Contemptors just look like giant obese Space Marines. This is also why I hate Venerable Dreadnoughts - everything about them is cool, except for the silly little helmet shrine that makes them look like, again, a giant obese Space Marine.

I agree with this. The small head looks really silly, but there are other things wrong with the Comtemptor too.

Note that Contemptors also have the wrong feet for an Imperial walker.

hello 
   
Made in gb
Stern Iron Priest with Thrall Bodyguard



UK

First I want to say we know how the pyramids were built trained craftsmen made earth ramparts and stone by stone moved them up and into place.

No magic, no aliens no forgotten science just alot of skilled Labour.

As for contemptors they are great an example of imperial tech at its prime, but that very complexity works against you when you want to mass produce any product, in the time you build one contemptor you can build two or three boxy dreads so that's what becomes the standard.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






New Orleans, LA

 kerikhaos wrote:
Hi everyone. I've been thinking heavily the last few days on this subject and want some opinions. Why do the pre heracy dreds look so much better and pack a much better punch than post heracy ones. It would look more sensible the other way round since the contemptors look agile and all round more modern. The standard dreds I mean look cack in comparison. They look blocky and they look like they walk with the 80's robo style music in the background. I dunno has there been a visual mistake with this that upsets other players or collectors?


Fluff: Because, after the fall of mars, 30k technology and gak is much more advanced than 40k technology and gak, newly discovered STC's withstanding.

Real: FW designers are getting better and better at designing bitchin' models and rules!

DA:70S+G+M+B++I++Pw40k08+D++A++/fWD-R+T(M)DM+
 
   
Made in cy
Dakka Veteran





Cyprus and London

hobojebus wrote:
First I want to say we know how the pyramids were built trained craftsmen made earth ramparts and stone by stone moved them up and into place.

No magic, no aliens no forgotten science just alot of skilled Labour.

As for contemptors they are great an example of imperial tech at its prime, but that very complexity works against you when you want to mass produce any product, in the time you build one contemptor you can build two or three boxy dreads so that's what becomes the standard.


Actually the fact is you don't know how the pyramids were made and it's just a theory taught from early years at school which seem to have brain sunk most people from having the ability to think 3 dimensionally. Recent studies have proven it was a built structure to be used a chemical reactor rather than a housing for the dead Egyptian kings. The fact that the sphinx has a timeline 6000 years older than the ancient Egyptian civilization also gives us a clue that something is dodgy with the history lessons we have all had regarding the pyramids. The rock has sever weathering and such heavy rainfall to do that much damage to rock happened during a time zone of approx 10000 bc. The sphinx was originally a lion designed to stare at the first sunrise of the first new day of the year. That point on earth is the focal point to our first sunrise of every New Years morning and our friends in Egypt found it there ready to have its head re chiseled into its present day king. Hence why it's head today is way smaller in proportion than the rest of its body.

My point is.....don't be too sure that what one source says is the correct one. There are many possibilities of who and what created it. Just depends how sceptic we are about believing these other possibilities

Only through chaos can peace be obtained,
Destruction is our future but we shall not fall from it, We will rise up stronger than ever before and stand together united as one, 
   
Made in us
Archmagos Veneratus Extremis




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 greg0985 wrote:
...(like windows 8)...

Windows 8 nothing, it was frikkin' Windows ME and copies of AOL from 1997!
   
 
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