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Made in au
Stubborn Hammerer





$1,000,000 and a 50% discount

This is a thread sending out warnings to those who would expect the Bits & Kits website to honour orders which have never arrived: they will not, and go to extraordinary lengths to avoid you unless you pay them to respond.

A recap: An order was made in October 2012, for some simply bits for a Mordheim Warband. After 4 weeks they had not arrived, after 8 weeks they had not arrived. A month afterwards I began using the website's Contact Us page and tried the email advised in the website's many advertisements for sales and restocks. That brings us to the end of last year, where I finally managed to catch his attention by making another order and putting the details of the missing order in the notes section. I got an email response within a week. Luckily this time the most recent order did arrived! unfortunately that is not where this story ends...

...After finally getting a hold of him at the beginning of December and having him promise a refund the day after details were provided (specifically on the 4/12/13, his words not mine), I'm still having to send a weekly or biweekly email chasing up £31.10 (not a lot of money but this is about the principle dammit!) and have resorted to trying Heresy Online (where he is active) as a means to get in contact. I've had bad experiences before (with pretty much every wargaming retailer out there as HBMC will attest), but never have I been this enraged by the complete disregard I have received from one store, to the turn of many dozen emails spread over the course of 1-1/2 years, and in several cases having to pay for the privilege of his attention.

Bits and Kits: I will get my refund, because this is no longer business, this just became personal.



just hangin' out, hangin' out
 
   
Made in us
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

.... did I misread that, or have you been chasing this refund for 17 months?

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.

 Flinty wrote:
The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
 
   
Made in au
Stubborn Hammerer





$1,000,000 and a 50% discount

 Ouze wrote:
.... did I misread that, or have you been chasing this refund for 17 months?
Technically yes, but a breakdown would look more like:
- 13 months to get a response, and then
- 4 months (still) waiting for promised refund.


just hangin' out, hangin' out
 
   
Made in gb
Bryan Ansell





Birmingham, UK

This is really gakky customer service, by anyones standards.

Any chance of you posting up a sample of your messages and their original promises to refund?
   
Made in si
Foxy Wildborne







Yeah, B&K are terrible at this sort of thing. Avoid if you can.

Posters on ignore list: 36

40k Potica Edition - 40k patch with reactions, suppression and all that good stuff. Feedback thread here.

Gangs of Nu Ork - Necromunda / Gorkamorka expansion supporting all faction. Feedback thread here
   
Made in au
Stubborn Hammerer





$1,000,000 and a 50% discount

 Mr. Burning wrote:
This is really gakky customer service, by anyones standards.

Any chance of you posting up a sample of your messages and their original promises to refund?

---

The email chains related to trying to get his attention via the Contact Us on the website and email over the 1 year period involve the following (names and numbers apart from dates blotted out with ****):

Ehsteve wrote:Hello,

I made an order late October (#*****) that was dispatched the day after (26/10/12) and have yet to receive it. Kindly advise.

Kind regards,

-*******


I did this on a weekly or monthly basis until I made the following additional comment with my next order (~1 year later).

Ehsteve wrote:DATED 27/9/13
Hello,

I have sent a dozen emails regarding my order (#*****) that was supposedly
sent out in October of last year but never received. Your
******** email account has ceased receiving emails and your
Contact Us option on your website has proved fruitless. Please advise.

Kind regards.

-*******


Finally on 23/10/13 I had not received my order that was made on 27/9/13, so I expected the worst (that it was also lost). So as usual, it was an email and a Contact Us with the following message:

Ehsteve wrote:DATED 23/10/13
Hello,

This is notice that it has been nearly a month since my order (#*****) [EDIT: this was the 29/9/13 order] has
shipped and accordingly this is to advise you that I shall be making a
Paypal claim to reclaim funds. I am taking this action to order to avoid
what happened with a previous order (#*****) [EDIT: this was the 26/10/12 order] which was never received and
despite many emails you have yet to respond to any of them regarding this
matter, even though the order is now over one year overdue.

Your unprofessionalism up to this point in regards to responding to emails
has been noted. Though you seem very capable of sending out advertisements
of restocks and sales, you seem incapable of responding to any form of
correspondence sent to you. Whilst I wish this matter to be resolved in a
timely and cordial manner, your complete silence for one whole year on one
matter has left me with little confidence that you are willing to address
this matter yourself (as noted by lack of correspondence).

Kind regards,

-*******


Finally! With the threat of rightfully pulling money after 2 weeks I got a response:

BitsandKits wrote:DATED 5/11/13
Hello *******

Sorry to hear you have had issue with some orders, order #******* [EDIT: this was the 29/9/13 order] could still be on its way to you but if you feel you need to contact paypal thats fine we can go through that process if you prefer, but being that your on the other side of the world, it can take a while for anything to get delivered or pass through customs or get rejected and returned to me here in the UK.
As for your previous order of a year ago, i have to admit i have no record of you contacting us about it,either by email,letter or you could have dropped us a message on the two orders you placed after that order and i would have looked into to it sooner and chased the mail companies for a refund or through paypal at the time. As such a long time has passed i assume replacing the order would be pointless and i cant refund #******* [EDIT: this was the 26/10/12 order] directly as too much time has passed , but i can send you a paypal payment to cover your loss if that would be ok?.-*******


This message annoyed me to no end, having sent so many emails, stressing so much over just getting a response but still...Success! That very same day however, a miracle happens and I receive the 29/9/13 order! Here is my response:

Ehsteve wrote:DATED 5/11/13
Hello,

The first order did in fact arrive a week after the email thankfully. However regarding previous emails I have used the contact function on your website a dozen times (within 4 weeks of the order which would put it square in November) to no effect. The most direct manner of contact I have ever had (prompting a response) is when making an order after the fact and using the comments section.

Yes, I believe that it would be best to use the method described.

Kind regards,

-*******


3 weeks went by...with no response, I felt that this was just a return to the status quo (getting nothing and no word on anything). So I sent an email to chase this up:

Ehsteve wrote:DATED 29/11/13
Hello,

I'm just chasing up the refund for this item. It has been nearly four weeks and I have not yet received any notification of payment or response.

Kind regards,

-*******


4 days later I receive this response:

BitsandKits wrote:DATED 3/12/13
Hello *******
Sorry about the delay, got a staff member gone on long term sick so im running behind, I owe you a sum of money as a refund can you tell me how much and how you would prefer payment and your paypal address if that is the preferred method and I will get it sorted today (Tuesday)

Many thanks
-*******


I leap for joy. TOMORROW! TOMORROW IS THE DAY! I leap to the computer with early christmas cheer.

Ehsteve wrote:DATED 3/12/13
Hello,

The order came to the amount of £31.10. My preferred Paypal address is: ********.

Kind regards,

-*******


I wait with baited breath. For 2 and a bit weeks because it is nearing Christmas after all, so why not give him a couple of weeks instead of the NEXT DAY as quoted.

Ehsteve wrote:DATED 20/12/13
Hello,

I am chasing up this refund again. It has been over two weeks since I provided details. Whilst I understand this is a busy time of year, it was stated that this would be resolved the day after. Kindly advise.

Kind regards,

-*******


I send that same email on 8/1/14. Then I make a slight change to the wording on the 31/1/14, because this is starting to get a little ridiculous:

Ehsteve wrote:DATED 31/1/14
Hello,

I am chasing up this refund again. It has now nearly been two months since I provided my details for the refund. Please note that again, it was stated that this would be resolved the day after details were provided. Kindly advise.

Kind regards,

-*******


And now I send this email quite recently:

Ehsteve wrote:DATED 5/3/14
Hello,

I am chasing up this refund yet again. It has now been three months since I provided my details for the refund of the missing order (#*****). I would like to make clear that it was stated at the time that this would be resolved the day after my details were provided. Please advise on the status of this item.

Kind regards,

-*******


I gave a very generous time frame because February was a particularly busy period of year at work.

This is not just bad customer service, this is near CONTEMPT for the customer. Because of that I will endeavour to have my £31.10 returned and maybe ask to have it accompanied by a short message along the lines of "I apologize for the inconvenience."

That is all I require. $50 and a short apology.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/12 01:02:19



just hangin' out, hangin' out
 
   
Made in gb
Worthiest of Warlock Engineers






preston

Sheesh, this makes GW customer service look godlike by comparison.

have you tried looking into your customer rights? There might be some way that you can legally challenge them and get your money back that way. There is no excuse to leave someone hanging for that long.

Free from GW's tyranny and the hobby is looking better for it
DR:90-S++G+++M++B++I+Pww205++D++A+++/sWD146R++T(T)D+
 
   
Made in gb
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord







GW does have good customer service though?

   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Omadon's Realm

B&K have a really bad rep, my own experiences with them have been mixed.

BitzBox on the other hand were excellent in every transaction I had with them and I ordered a lot of ork stuff over several years. I recommend them strongly.



 
   
Made in gb
Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan





Bristol, England

They are in the wrong here but I'd have chased harder and sooner in order to get results.
It's amazing how putting pressure on a company right from the initial order will force them to get bored of both you and the matter and just get it sorted.
Generally I'd recommend 2x phone calls and 2x emails per day until you're happy.

Oli: Can I be an orc?
Everyone: No.
Oli: But it fits through the doors, Look! 
   
Made in us
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

This isn't salient to your specific issue, but how others who might be reading this should react in similar situations:

1.) If you paid with Paypal, open a dispute in the resolution center within 45 days. Do not close this dispute until you have been made whole, i.e. you have product or a refund. Some vendors have been known to ask disputes to be closed with promises of refunds and then not provided. You can always close it early if they come through, no reason to do it beforehand.

2.) If you paid with a credit card, contact them and file a chargeback for the order. The timeframe you have to do this will vary depending on your card but it's usually 90-120 days.


I think you waited too long, OP. I think Name & Shame, as you have done here, is the best hope you have, and since these guys already have a lousy reputation it may not be effective.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/03/11 13:45:46


 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.

 Flinty wrote:
The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
 
   
Made in gb
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





I recommend something much stronger now, with a clear date. Always put dates you expect a reply by otherwise stuff gets put off. If possible get someone in the UK to send them a demand for payment by recorded delivery. It will cost about £3 (I dread to think how much it would be overseas). Probably not worth it realy, as it looks like your not getting the money back now, but if this is personal rather than about the costs then it might be worth a try.

 master of ordinance wrote:
Sheesh, this makes GW customer service look godlike by comparison.


Um... The one thing almost everyone agrees on with GW is that their customer service is excellent.

 insaniak wrote:
Sometimes, Exterminatus is the only option.
And sometimes, it's just a case of too much scotch combined with too many buttons...
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Biloxi, MS USA

I'm still trying to work out in my mind why you'd make another order after the first never arrived.

Maybe it's just me, but if I order something and never receive it or hear from them, I wouldn't even consider doing business with them again.

You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
Hallowed is the All Pie
The Before Times: A Place That Celebrates The World That Was 
   
Made in gb
Worthiest of Warlock Engineers






preston

 Steve steveson wrote:
 master of ordinance wrote:
Sheesh, this makes GW customer service look godlike by comparison.


Um... The one thing almost everyone agrees on with GW is that their customer service is excellent.


Sorry, i came from a GW bashing thread to here on very little sleep and a lot of stress. Mistakes where made.

Free from GW's tyranny and the hobby is looking better for it
DR:90-S++G+++M++B++I+Pww205++D++A+++/sWD146R++T(T)D+
 
   
Made in gb
Dipping With Wood Stain



Welwyn Garden City, Herts

Google Street Map of the address they give as their base of operations

What you *could* do is 'sell' your debt to a UK based Dakkanaut for £0.01. They could then use the small claims court Link ( to sue Bits and Kits which would cost £25 to file the paperwork plus Bailiffs fees on top to recover the money (all the court and bailiffs fees could be added to the debt). Whether you'd want to fund this or could find anyone to do it for you is the barrier.

   
Made in gb
Tunneling Trygon






Carrickfergus, Northern Ireland

It's interesting to note that all of the detractors of B&K in this thread are in America. I'm in the UK and have never had any problems with them after many transactions. That is quite odd.

Really, though, it's always better to go through the service you paid by. Paypal is especially known for being harsh on the seller in this sort of situation. I understand the desire to place trust in the seller, though, and give them the benefit of the doubt (I imagine that immediately going to Paypal without giving them a fair chance would feel quite underhanded, even though it isn't).

About what Richred_UK said, I think that the mere threat of this would be enough (provided they actually get the email/read it).

Sieg Zeon!

Selling TGG2! 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Biloxi, MS USA

 Frozen Ocean wrote:
It's interesting to note that all of the detractors of B&K in this thread are in America. I'm in the UK and have never had any problems with them after many transactions. That is quite odd.


I think your eyes are playing tricks on you. Lord_Blackfang isn't American.

You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
Hallowed is the All Pie
The Before Times: A Place That Celebrates The World That Was 
   
Made in gb
Dipping With Wood Stain



Welwyn Garden City, Herts

 Frozen Ocean wrote:
About what Richred_UK said, I think that the mere threat of this would be enough (provided they actually get the email/read it).


Indeed - when I had to chase debts for my company a few years ago, I found that a filled in small claims court form sent to the debtor with the message that it would be filed in X Days if no payment was received tended to focus the mind somewhat.

   
Made in lu
Witch Hunter in the Shadows





Earth

I ordered once from Bits and Kits while I was living in the Netherlands. Order didn't show up, so after around 40 days I fired off an email informing them my order hasn't showed up. No response. I then filed a dispute on PayPal, asking for some news about my order, thinking that would do the trick. No response. Once the dispute time was almost up I escalated it to a claim. The donkey-cave let it run all the way to end, without even a response. In any case, I recovered my payment just fine.

Iirc there are several threads on here about Bits and Kits and their unprofessional behaviour. As for you OP, I think you are gak out of luck. You should have filed a dispute as soon as the time is about to expire, and you have not received your goods. Best now to just spread the word about how gakky Bits and Kits is, and to order at your own discretion.

In any case, good luck to you.

   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka





Southampton

Hmm... ordered from him a couple of times with no problems at all. Shame others are having hassles because he's currently on my good list.

   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Biloxi, MS USA

 Flashman wrote:
Hmm... ordered from him a couple of times with no problems at all. Shame others are having hassles because he's currently on my good list.


It seems to be a trend that everyone without issues is from the UK whilst everyone with them has been from other countries.

You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
Hallowed is the All Pie
The Before Times: A Place That Celebrates The World That Was 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Oceanic

Good info, never heard of them but definitely will never! Buy from this company in the future.

On the other hand, even though they rarely have the items I want in stock, I've had a good experience with Bitzbox

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCiJ5Xnv1ClgVcGmmb-zQBlw

Perils of the Wallet - YouTube Channel 
   
Made in si
Foxy Wildborne







 Ouze wrote:
1.) If you paid with Paypal, open a dispute in the resolution center within 45 days. Do not close this dispute until you have been made whole, i.e. you have product or a refund. Some vendors have been known to ask disputes to be closed with promises of refunds and then not provided. You can always close it early if they come through, no reason to do it beforehand.


However, this only works if you receive nothing at all. If you pick up the package and there are bitz missing, Paypal says it's not their problem and B&K keeps all the money. True story.

Posters on ignore list: 36

40k Potica Edition - 40k patch with reactions, suppression and all that good stuff. Feedback thread here.

Gangs of Nu Ork - Necromunda / Gorkamorka expansion supporting all faction. Feedback thread here
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Omadon's Realm

Frozen Ocean wrote:It's interesting to note that all of the detractors of B&K in this thread are in America. I'm in the UK and have never had any problems with them after many transactions. That is quite odd.


Platuan4th wrote:
 Flashman wrote:
Hmm... ordered from him a couple of times with no problems at all. Shame others are having hassles because he's currently on my good list.


It seems to be a trend that everyone without issues is from the UK whilst everyone with them has been from other countries.


They were hit and miss in my transactions (some small parts not included or replaced without explanation) whilst I lived in the UK. I have not used them since. I used them at the same time I used Bitz Box and found that other company a lot easier to contact and better in terms of packing, dispatching and fulfilling orders.



 
   
Made in au
Stubborn Hammerer





$1,000,000 and a 50% discount

Time to reach out again via Contact Us to try to coax out a response again (as I've now given up on the email chain ending with my last response dated 5/3/14).

Ehsteve wrote:DATED 12/3/14
Hello,

I am still chasing up my refund for order #*****. As per our email correspondence, after providing my Paypal address and details of the order on 3/12/13 (now 4 months ago) I was to receive said refund for £31.10 the next day as advised by you. I have send multiple emails chasing up this matter over the past months as a result of your lack of action on the matter.

You have ceased responding to the email chain and are now apparently content with ignoring it alongside any other means of communication. Please note that I have now been trying to chase up this order for *1-1/2 years* and am still to have this matter remedied in a satisfactory manner. Kindly advise.

Kind regards,

-*******


As for Paypal claims, I am fully aware of the time limit, and I used that as leverage when my order was overdue from him back in October 2013 (which certainly got his attention). In this case I did eventually manage to get his attention and his friggin word that I would get a refund. So far that has yet to materialize, that is all that this thread is about: chasing up that promised refund.

I use Hoard o Bits mainly because I've never had a botched order from them (and they stock Reaper miniatures, which is a bonus for me).

To this day I still receive a consistent newsletter from B&K advertising sales and restocks, they taunt me so (but keep the anger burning bright, fuelling my drive to claim my refund!).

As for selling debt and making a small claim: if this reaches 30 June 2014 and I have not received my refund, I would consider this.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/03/12 00:05:02



just hangin' out, hangin' out
 
   
Made in si
Foxy Wildborne







Oddly I have so far not found any correlation between B&K restock newsletters and actual restocks.

Posters on ignore list: 36

40k Potica Edition - 40k patch with reactions, suppression and all that good stuff. Feedback thread here.

Gangs of Nu Ork - Necromunda / Gorkamorka expansion supporting all faction. Feedback thread here
   
Made in gb
Bryan Ansell





Birmingham, UK

Ehsteve - Send a message and refer them to this thread.

I guess any concerned posters here can also send them a message referring to this thread and how it is shaping their perception.

And spread the word to other forums.

   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Moore, Ok.

OP:
Next time you message this jackass, send a link to this thread.
I will never order from them. And I order from all over, not just the US.

Edit:
And ninja's by Mr. Burning and the sexy avatar!

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/03/14 14:12:03


"But i'm more than just a little curious, how you're planning to go about making your amends, to the dead?" -The Noose-APC

"Little angel go away
Come again some other day
The devil has my ear today
I'll never hear a word you say" Weak and Powerless - APC

 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Halandri

 Medium of Death wrote:
GW does have good customer service though?
Now, now. Lets not let facts (or at least overwhelming trends) get in the way of a good GW whine.
   
Made in ca
Shas'ui with Bonding Knife





Toronto, Canada

Good thing he just took Ehsteve's money and not his daughter...

   
 
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