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Hey guys, so while I'm constantly hunting around alternates and conversions for my foot-slogging line infantry, I find I'm having a problem scouting out bitz/conversion sellers that aren't tailored specifically to 40k. If someone could post a picture of a Winterguardsman beside a GW Imperial Guardsman that would help infinitely with figuring out whether GW is simply too chunky and heroic to fit in with Warmachine infantry models.

Believe it or not, Warmachine models are even chunkier than GW ones most of the time.

Are they really? Unfortunately the only human individual I own is Scorscha who has probably given me the wrong impression that PP are a grade more slender than GW lol

They do have more normal human proportions, but they're still basically the same scale.

Sorscha is particularly slender.

Winter Guard on the other hand are fairly chunky guys.

I could probably do this, it might help if I knew what kind you were thinking of. I assume since it's Winterguard you want something like Valhallans or Vostroyans. I've got those + Cadian/Rambo/Armageddon dudes.

Basically, most 40k scaled figure will fit comfortably on the appropriate sized Warmachine base.

Warjacks are about the same size as a Dreadnought, with the Jack being a little taller and the Dreadnought being wider.

 Desert Fox wrote:
Are they really? Unfortunately the only human individual I own is Scorscha who has probably given me the wrong impression that PP are a grade more slender than GW lol

PP Scale is all over the place for sure, some models say (Black 13th) being near realistic scale, while others Khador Manhunter are full on cartoon proportions. The thing with Scorscha is likely just PPs particularly brand of sexual dimorphism in effect, which can also be rather extreme.

 Gyrtop wrote:
I could probably do this, it might help if I knew what kind you were thinking of. I assume since it's Winterguard you want something like Valhallans or Vostroyans. I've got those + Cadian/Rambo/Armageddon dudes.

Oh, Cadians in particular since most 3rd party bits are tailored for them. I wouldn't quite mind seeing Catachans or Steel Legionnaires paired up either (Or hell the good 'ole Vostroyans and Valhallans).

 Chongara wrote:

 Desert Fox wrote:
Are they really? Unfortunately the only human individual I own is Scorscha who has probably given me the wrong impression that PP are a grade more slender than GW lol

PP Scale is all over the place for sure, some models say (Black 13th) being near realistic scale, while others Khador Manhunter are full on cartoon proportions. The thing with Scorscha is likely just PPs particularly brand of sexual dimorphism in effect, which can also be rather extreme.

But then again, GW's scale isn't very brilliant, either. Guardsmen is the biggest offender, while a human male with the expected nutrient intake of the Imperium would be average height similar to aged 35-50 Japanese men (since Japanese men aged 20-35 are actually not stereotypically short any more), they still stand as tall on the table as 250cm towering monstrosities of Space Marines or the 200cm+ Eldar whom would make Thor feel like a couch potato. Also, GW likes to make huge hands and large heads (although this may be past tense as of 2012 and onwards).

I'm sorry. I do not have any wintergaurd or IG. However here are some other comparison photos I have taken in the past that might help.

Terminator, Bane Thrall, Space marine

Bane thralls are large for most small based models in warmachine, but not all. Also note that a warmachine base is 30mm instead of one inch when you are comparing them.

Slayer vs Dreadnaught (not dread doesn't have a base)


Overall they are very similarly sized. I was actually looking at Retribution models to use as Eldar when I still played 40k. Then I decided why not just play warmachine instead?

Jabers I didn't realize how huge Bane Knights are. I'm still looking for WG vs. IG but these were pretty helpful, thanks! (I was thinking of playing Cryx using alts for Bane Knights but I'll have to knuckle down and get the real molds or figure out how to buff Mantic's Revenant Knights)

I'm pretty sure that pretty much all of GWs minis are the same height, regardless of how big they're "supposed to be". I know that Tau and Space Marines are pretty equivalent anyway (even though one is about 5.5 ft and the other is ~7-8 ft). I would presume that PP might very the height a little bit more? Presumably that's why a Bane Knight would look so big relative the the pictures above.

SM would probably be a medium base faction in PP terms

Yeah, bane thralls are a bit larger than your typical "human" in the PP line of models.

I have shocking data relevant to this conversation!









I can get you a Winterguard/IG comparison later tonight or tomorrow.

I have no IG anymore but Space Marines are pretty much the same height.

I got the Black 13th after my battlebox and after I assembled and painted them and put them next to stryker, I noticed something. They were about 3/4 Stryker's height if that! Privateer Press has a very odd scale in some cases.

Not sure if the B13th are in this category but some war machine models were originally made for IKRPG so might be a slightly different scale.

You should compare the B13th to the regular Gun mages. Apparently being awesome makes you shrink.

 welshhoppo wrote:
You should compare the B13th to the regular Gun mages. Apparently being awesome makes you shrink.

Or they're half-Rhulic

 Grey Templar wrote:
Not sure if the B13th are in this category but some war machine models were originally made for IKRPG so might be a slightly different scale.

B13th aren't one of those and the IKRPG models are the same scale anyway.

inferno445 wrote:
I got the Black 13th after my battlebox and after I assembled and painted them and put them next to stryker, I noticed something. They were about 3/4 Stryker's height if that! Privateer Press has a very odd scale in some cases.

While the scale is variable a little bit, the black 13th is a very special case of it, and the most obvious scale problem in the game by a fair margin. Rumor is that they were sculpted in true (rather than heroic) scale by the contracted sculpter, back in the early days of MKI when PP was a far smaller company. They're the unit in Cygnar that generally gets the most requests for a re-sculpt, because they are very obviously off-scale, even though they're reasonably nice sculpts otherwise. They did end up writing a bit of fluff about how they were from an area of Cygnar known for it's short people, and it's become a bit of an in-joke.

 Maddermax wrote:

inferno445 wrote:
I got the Black 13th after my battlebox and after I assembled and painted them and put them next to stryker, I noticed something. They were about 3/4 Stryker's height if that! Privateer Press has a very odd scale in some cases.

While the scale is variable a little bit, the black 13th is a very special case of it, and the most obvious scale problem in the game by a fair margin. Rumor is that they were sculpted in true (rather than heroic) scale by the contracted sculpter, back in the early days of MKI when PP was a far smaller company. They're the unit in Cygnar that generally gets the most requests for a re-sculpt, because they are very obviously off-scale, even though they're reasonably nice sculpts otherwise. They did end up writing a bit of fluff about how they were from an area of Cygnar known for it's short people, and it's become a bit of an in-joke.

It's a bit sad that they're so tiny since I agree that they're very nice sculpts otherwise. I'd definitely get the resculpt in the future because the other day Lynch's arm (the one that was attached to his body, not the hand that you glue on) fell off. It went back on with some glue but I'd appreciate having a backup in case the arm somehow gets lost. Also I find it highly unlikely that they're all from the same part of Cygnar, but whatever PP is happy with will have to do for now.

Khadorans are HUGE, as per the fluff.

inferno445 wrote:
I got the Black 13th after my battlebox and after I assembled and painted them and put them next to stryker, I noticed something. They were about 3/4 Stryker's height if that! Privateer Press has a very odd scale in some cases.

B13 are not that bad. I have both and did not even realize there was a difference till I read it online somewhere and then I had to go look for myself. If you compare gunmages side by side, yes the B13 is somewhat shorter. But you're talking about someone who may be 5'8" or 5'9" vs someone who is 6'. And the proportions are slightly thinner. However, on a tabletop with a bunch of other models during a game you'd never notice.

Truthfully, I like the B13 and would prefer the other models to have more realistic proportions like they do.

I gotta agree with Mordekiem, I really wish the entirety of Warmachine was true-scale or closer to the B13 scale. Those are gorgeous models.

But at any rate thanks for the variety of scale pics, guys! Though I'd still really love to see a Guardsman of any type base-to-base with a Winter guardsman.

WM miniatures are at 2+ mm scale compared to 40k models, and guardsmen are unusually tall, so I guess they are the same size.

So I've always figured GW aim for "28mm Heroic" scale, while PP are closer to regular "30mm" scale; that is GW models are around 28-30mm with exaggerated features, while PP models are around 30mm with slightly more realistic features. In theory. In practice...

I don't have any Winter Guard, but here's some IG models next to some other Khador infantry; note that two of the IG are characters so they might not be completely typical, and the other is on a thinner base so he looks a little shorter:


And some other Warmachine infantry:

Jeeze PP scale really is all over the place. Thanks for posting the comparison shots! It's pretty easy to eye-ball how the Tallarn would look on a 30mm base next to the shown Warmachine guys.

To be fair, human heights are all over the place.

 Surtur wrote:
To be fair, human heights are all over the place.

This. It's also well established in the fluff that Khadorans are freaking huge compared to people of the southern kingdoms.