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Librarian in TDA with Storm Shield, chaplain in TDA with power fist, Sanguinary priest with TDA, 5 TH/SS terminators

2x 5 close combat scouts, powerfist on the sarg, teleport homer, camo cloaks

5 bolter scouts, combi-plasma, teleport homer, camo cloaks

5 sniper scouts, camo cloaks

4 sniper scouts, 1 missile launcher, camo cloaks

15 death company, 10 bolters, 2 powerfists, 3 hand flamers, 3 power weapons

2x 5 devestators with missile launchers

5 devestators with plasma canons.



63 infantry, no vehicles. Approximately 2,000 points.

__________________________________________________________________








I have the following models to choose from and am able to do conversions. Please give advice on this list for an all comers meta:


5 TH/SS terminators, parts to build a 6th.

1 Librarian in terminator armor with storm shield

1 chaplain in terminator armor

1 sanguinary priest with terminator armor

1 terminator with assault cannon

1 tactical terminator,

2 assault terminator assault cannons

3 bikes, 1 with melta

10 converted sternguard which could be fielded as death company. They have bolters in 1 hand and combat knives in the other.

1 dreadnought, converted poorly from hellbrute.

2 chaplains in power armor, multiple weapons to choose from for both

3 marines w Heavy plasma

2 marines w missile launchers

3 marines w plasma guns

1 marine w flamer

1 marine w melta

approximately 3 to 5 tactical squads worth of bolter marines with 4 or 5 models to represent sergeants. I am open to using these as bolter death company.

9 sniper scouts, 1 scout with missile launcher

12 close combat scouts

3 bolter scouts

1 company captain with power fist and bolter in power armor.


Miscelaneous weapons to include hand flamers, plasma pistols, power fists, fusion pistols, bolt pistols, power swords, etc.

4 jump packs which I can put on anything

Are those models beyond what you have in your list, or are those what you have total, with the list built from them?

A scout based army is going to hurt very bad, they're not very survivable depending on what the other guys have. :/

The problem with this list is that your scouts will get ravaged hard by any kind of dedicated gunfire, which is sadly most of what you'll face. I like the Terminator heavy aspect, they will survive quite a bit, but you should try and run Corbulo if you can since he can tank wounds like a champ. Stick him in with Terminators and watch them survive the apocalypse lol!

Death Company are great, but you need something to get them to their targets quickly. No vehicles=dead DC. Consider vehicle. If you have the cash, a stormraven or land raider are optimal.

Also, when it comes to holding objectives, you might find that your scouts are very squishy and easy to kill.

Devastators can be good, missile launchers are ace, so you have at least some way to deal with armor, but in the end, I would drop a squad of the PG ones and add a squad of Tactical Marines since it doesn't look like you have much for assault marines.

You need vehicles, I can't stress that enough. That much footslogging will just get creamed in the open field. Terminators will fare slightly better, but at the end of the day they can't weather everything...

This is a great list to play for fun, and if you have fun with it go with it, but winning will be an uphill battle in the best of scenarios.

this list will die. you have models that would be better used in a SM list. try them.

 Glorywarrior wrote:
this list will die. you have models that would be better used in a SM list. try them.

Not much of a critique, and overtly blunt but he does have a point.

 Murdius Maximus wrote:
The problem with this list is that your scouts will get ravaged hard by any kind of dedicated gunfire, which is sadly most of what you'll face. I like the Terminator heavy aspect, they will survive quite a bit, but you should try and run Corbulo if you can since he can tank wounds like a champ. Stick him in with Terminators and watch them survive the apocalypse lol!

Death Company are great, but you need something to get them to their targets quickly. No vehicles=dead DC. Consider vehicle. If you have the cash, a stormraven or land raider are optimal.

Also, when it comes to holding objectives, you might find that your scouts are very squishy and easy to kill.

Devastators can be good, missile launchers are ace, so you have at least some way to deal with armor, but in the end, I would drop a squad of the PG ones and add a squad of Tactical Marines since it doesn't look like you have much for assault marines.

You need vehicles, I can't stress that enough. That much footslogging will just get creamed in the open field. Terminators will fare slightly better, but at the end of the day they can't weather everything...

This is a great list to play for fun, and if you have fun with it go with it, but winning will be an uphill battle in the best of scenarios.

This post has a couple horrible pieces of advice. DC are terrible. All their mobilization options suck out loud. Also, missile launcher devs are the worst possible heavy choice in the whole codex. Never, ever use BA devs, and if you must, NEVER use MLs.

However, fast vehicles are the one of the few things in the codex that aren't total garbage. Just mostly garbage because of hull points. And no assault out of razor/rhino ever.

Then what is your advice, Martel? I understand that you like to say how much BA is garbage, but at least give some advice on what to do, not just what to avoid, with it.

Ah Martel...our resident BA troll.

 Murdius Maximus wrote:
Ah Martel...our resident BA troll.

It's hard to troll a list as bad as the BA.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 troa wrote:
Then what is your advice, Martel? I understand that you like to say how much BA is garbage, but at least give some advice on what to do, not just what to avoid, with it.

My first advice is not play BA. I myself have been using them less and less as BA.

Secondly, units that were overcosted in 5th are STILL overcosted in 6th. And some new ones became overcosted that weren't.

My advice is to go mass jumpers, mass mech, jumper/pod hybrid, fear circus, or raven spam.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Murdius Maximus wrote:
Ah Martel...our resident BA troll.

"Devastators can be good, missile launchers are ace"

At least I'm not throwing out gems like that one.

K, the list on the bottom is my total count of models including the list above it. Could someone explain why the missile launcher devestators are bad? On B&C everyone seems to recommend them.

Would Corbulo be better than a terminator sanguinary priest? If so, I can add him with a conversion. Not a problem.

What particular aspect of BA devestators makes it so I should "never ever" take them?

Scouts will die, I understand that. Are the camo cloaks with cover saves not enough to keep them alive?


Since I dont own the space marine codex, what kind of list would be best with these models? If I insist on running BA, how many vehicles are optimal to keep any one from taking too much focused fire? What mix of vehicles would y'all recommend?

Devs are bad because they use the same slot as the Thunder Guppy ...probably the best unit in the BA Codex. 100 points more than a 5 man ML squad gets you a Thunder Guppy that has TL MM, TL LC/TL AC ( I use the LC mostly ) 4 S8 AP1 Missiles, and Hurricane bolters. It moves, is hard to hit for most things, and can carry a squad of guys (Which I never use it for transport other than Dreads).

micahwc wrote:
K, the list on the bottom is my total count of models including the list above it. Could someone explain why the missile launcher devestators are bad? On B&C everyone seems to recommend them.

Would Corbulo be better than a terminator sanguinary priest? If so, I can add him with a conversion. Not a problem.

What particular aspect of BA devestators makes it so I should "never ever" take them?

Scouts will die, I understand that. Are the camo cloaks with cover saves not enough to keep them alive?


Since I dont own the space marine codex, what kind of list would be best with these models? If I insist on running BA, how many vehicles are optimal to keep any one from taking too much focused fire? What mix of vehicles would y'all recommend?

I didn't realize the B+C guys were so ignorant. Here's why MLs are bad: both ammo types suck at their job.

Krak missiles are supposed to be anti-tank anti-heavy unit ordnance. Except, most hard targets now have a 2+ save, not a 3+. Furthermore, AP 3 gets not bonus on the vehicle damage table. So even if the missile pens (only 33% against AV 12), you can never count on it eliminating the target (16% chance). That leaves you scrubbing hull points with an ROF 1 weapon. It doesn't get more gak than that. The only real niche for the krak missile is doubling out T4. But many multiple wound T4 models have a 2+ save.

Frag missiles are also completely unefficacious. Small blasts are bad in general, but forgivable on plasma cannons because of the potential value of the targets. Frag missile targets need to be killed wholesale, not in little blast marker quantities. Furthermore, at ST 4 AP 6 too many will survive the hits anyway. Total garbage ammo.

Now lascannons are overcosted in the BA codex, so I would just avoid devs at all costs. Devs were made basically unplayable when CSM dropped because Helldrakes just said, "Nice devs, brah. Too bad they're dead!" It's just not being in the slot with the Stormraven (which is not really that great, imo), devs are just dysfunctional on the battlefield.

If you want to spam BA vehicles, I'd go with AV 13 fronts like preds and Baals and then razors for the troops. Shoot away and hope. BA is the worst list in the game by a pretty good margin at the moment. Don't expect much.

"Scouts will die, I understand that. Are the camo cloaks with cover saves not enough to keep them alive? "

No, because of so much ignores cover in the game. Scouts do have the merit that you lose fewer points when they die.

Martel, I was basing off what he had available in his list. Read the OP. What you offer as options are viable, I won't disagree with you, but I was trying to work within the confines of his list, offering that if he had the cash maybe try this or that option. What you are suggesting is hundreds of dollars that he may not have, and if he does, may not have the time to build and thus all you succeed in doing is once again trolling a BA thread and essentially telling someone they are dumb for playing BA. Get over yourself, it is his choice to play them so try being constructive. Your last post was a great one, do that more often

I realize you have some sort of problem with my opinions on BA, and that is fine, but directly attacking my opinions and acting holier than thou is disrespectful no matter how you look at it. Taking every opportunity that you can to try and make me and my opinions look bad when I am simply trying to help someone is just rude. What is your problem with me anyway? Because frankly I don't get it...

Then please don't tell people to include horrible weapon systems in their lists and I won't attack your opinion. Players, especially new ones, need to know the truth about weapons like the missile launcher and units like BA devs.

As for the models available issue, given the list of models, I don't think it much matters which ones get used.

The BA lists that begin to approach passable are mass jumper, mass mech, jumper/pod hybrid, fear circus and raven spam. I don't see the models to do any of those.

Your opinion is that they are horrible. Telling a beginning player who probably invested quite a bit into his first army that it sucks and he made the wrong decision is deplorable and frankly as a veteran you should know better. My advice isn't bad for what he has and at least I was working in the confines of his list. You are shooting it down because it doesn't have what YOU think it should have. Seriously man you sound like a really good player and I think it's awesome how much you know about something you hate so much but honestly stop pushing what you would use as a veteran player and offer to help with what he has. Pretty sure you were a beginner once.

Yup. I started off 0-21 in 2nd edition with BA. Killed by Tyranids, CSM, Eldar, and IG over and over and over and over and over.

He has the right to know what is efficacious and to have realistic expectations with BA.

And its not what *I* think he should have. It's what GW thinks he should have. I stand by my statement that is literally doesn't matter which of the models listed gets fielded. A random grab bag of anything from C:Eldar or C:Tau will just win. Through no fault of the OP, either.

And it's not just my opinion that makes MLs horrible. Their effect within the game has gotten less and less every edition. Compare frag missiles to the Wyvern. Really, dude?

I never told him that my recommendations would guarantee victory, merely that with his options every battle would be uphill at best. You can't pick and choose parts of what I post and then argue a whole point.

Your posts are rude, and even if you have a good head about you as far as 40K goes (and you do) that doesn't mean you get to be all hoity toity about how superior you are. Congrats on your precious TauDar being the best army. But seriously man stop shooting down every single BA thread that comes up.

It is a well established fact that you hate the BA. It is a well established fact that they are easily the worst codex in the format right now, but they are by no means the completely broken mess that you think they are. I am suspecting that you feel this way because you play a WAAC list...wait.

Before you inevitably use your broken record response "why is it bad that I play the best army available" argument, I am not saying that it is a bad thing.

What I am saying however, is that just because he doesn't play the most WAAC option out there doesn't mean that you get the right to bash his choices into oblivion. I keep telling you to use the knowledge that you have and help new BA players at least have fun with the codex instead of automatically assuming that losing=having no fun. You also assume that he will undeniably lose every singe game.

I've seen BA beat Tau. That's right. I've seen DC ruin a Riptide's day. I've seen TH/SS Terminators squash Wave Serpents. It does happen, even if it is uncommon it still happens.

Sorry to rant but I've honestly had about enough of you ruining every single BA players day with your negative comments. If nobody else here will tell you fine, but where I come from we help new players and support their choices, not tell them what a bad choice they made and run them into the ground.

I can imagine the day that every single player runs TauDar lists. I would still love being an inefficacious BA player with my old and uncompetitive codex because BA is cooler looking army (yes it is ^) and at least, TLMM/AC Thunder guppies and pod fragiosos could have a chance to save my day.

 Murdius Maximus wrote:
I never told him that my recommendations would guarantee victory, merely that with his options every battle would be uphill at best. You can't pick and choose parts of what I post and then argue a whole point.

Your posts are rude, and even if you have a good head about you as far as 40K goes (and you do) that doesn't mean you get to be all hoity toity about how superior you are. Congrats on your precious TauDar being the best army. But seriously man stop shooting down every single BA thread that comes up.

It is a well established fact that you hate the BA. It is a well established fact that they are easily the worst codex in the format right now, but they are by no means the completely broken mess that you think they are. I am suspecting that you feel this way because you play a WAAC list...wait.

Before you inevitably use your broken record response "why is it bad that I play the best army available" argument, I am not saying that it is a bad thing.

What I am saying however, is that just because he doesn't play the most WAAC option out there doesn't mean that you get the right to bash his choices into oblivion. I keep telling you to use the knowledge that you have and help new BA players at least have fun with the codex instead of automatically assuming that losing=having no fun. You also assume that he will undeniably lose every singe game.

I've seen BA beat Tau. That's right. I've seen DC ruin a Riptide's day. I've seen TH/SS Terminators squash Wave Serpents. It does happen, even if it is uncommon it still happens.

Sorry to rant but I've honestly had about enough of you ruining every single BA players day with your negative comments. If nobody else here will tell you fine, but where I come from we help new players and support their choices, not tell them what a bad choice they made and run them into the ground.

Supportive comments won't help new players understand why they lose over and over. I don't want any of them to think that it is their fault. It isn't at all.

And BA really don't have WAAC options. They have the options that won't get you tabled against most of the lists out there now and then they have the options that WILL get you tabled.

I've beaten Tau with BA. Whooptee-do. Being bad in 40K is like being bad in baseball. You are still going to win sometimes. And you don't need TH/SS terminators to squash WS. Regular schmucks with krak grenades work fine. Catching them before all your guy die is the problem.

I don't ruin BA players' day. GW already did that. Ignorance is not going to help them. In fact, if they understand that the codex is at fault, not them, they are more likely to stick around.

Well whatever you need to think to justify your comments I guess. Sheesh.

I prefer bluntness over sugar-coating it doesn't actually help; just soothes egos.