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I have been making many attempts at more close combat oriented Dwarf lists which, while maintaining some ranged attacks, also do well in combat and have plenty of support.

Belegar Ironhammer- 305pts

Thane: BSB, Shield, MRoGroth One-Eye, RoBattle(1)- 203pts

Thane: Shiele, Oath Stone, RoWarding, RoFortitude, RoStone- 168pts

Runesmith: Shield, RoSpellbreaking, MRoBalance- 113pts

Runesmith: Shield, RoSpellbreaking(2)- 108pts

12 Longbeards: FC, Shields, Strollaz's Rune, Rosanctuary- 236pts

12 Longbeards: FC, Shields, Strollaz's Rune- 221pts

15 Ironbreakers: FC, RoSlowness, RoSanctuary, Cinderblast Bombs- 311pts
(Belegar, Thane-BSB, Runesmith)

16 Ironbreakers: FC, RoSlowness, Cinderblast Bombs- 304pts
(Thane-Oath Stone, Runealsmith)

12 Hammerers: FC, MRoValaya- 263pts

12 Miners: FC, Steamdrill- 175pts

12 Rangers: FC- 198pts

Cannon: RoForging- 145pts

Grudge Thrower: RoAccuracey, RoForging- 130pts

Gyrobomber- 125pts

TOTAL: 2,991pts

I believe the total is around that though I may have missed somethig during some revisions. The Longbeards would Vanguard ahead to get into combat while the Ironbreakers follow up, I would run the Hammerers in the middle possibly or on flank depending on the scenario. The Cannon and Grudge Thrower would obviously stay behind and focus on any outliers or threats. And the Rangers and Miners would come in one rear or flanks where neccesarry to support the Ironbreakers, along with the Gyrobomber which can prorect the War Machines or the Ironbreakers and others as needed.

The base for this army is of course the Ironbreakers, as they both units will have an Oath Stone in them, and will be Armour Piercing, giving them extra defensive and offensive help. I intemd to keep everythig in pretty close proximity, so as to benefit from the Stubborn bubble.

I am skeptical however on the unit sizes as well as the smaller amount of overall shooting. Any questions and commentd welcome! I would very much like some advice and to know what others think.

 Mountain-Breaker wrote:
I am skeptical however on the unit sizes

This is my concern with the list.
Your units will be loosing combat due to combat resolution (having next to no ranks, especially after a couple of casulties), and you'll almost never be steadfast with those numbers.

I'm also not seeing the point of cinderblast bombs on your Ironbreakers. If you're in 8" range you're almost always better off charging instead.
And they can't be used for a "Stand and Shoot" reaction. I can't see a time they'll ever get used.

First major issue I see at first glance, You also are most definitely not making minimum core at 3k ( 625 at 2.5k, your not at 500 currently)

All those hq choices are wasting points, drop the extra non bsb thane.

Personally those units need to be combined and bulked up

Your wasting so many points on full command and runes across all these small units

Yeah the unit sizes are really the sticking point, and now that you mention it I may just remove the Cinderblast Bombs. I intended to use them in the case a more defensive scenario arose, but I will see what else there is.

However, the Ironbreakers will be in close enough proximity to the MRoGroth One-Eye to always be Stubborn, therefore gaining Steadfast, and although losing some will be detromental of course, they will have a 3+ save and a 5+ Parry at all times. But again, I do know what you are saying as losing some models on the back could be bad.


Also the reason for the second Thane is to have an Oath Stone in both units, and AP from the Runesmiths, I can't put the BSB on an Oath Stone because he will have to accept challenges and will probably not hold up against whatever is gunning for him. I will probably combine the Longbeards into one unit keeping Strollaz's, and either get rid of the Miners and take more Rangers to make the unit larger, or keep the Miners and reduce their command to probably just a Champion.

As for the Core, I knew I was below the minumum I have been looking at some additions and alternatives. Additionally, the reasons for the extra Banner Runes and commands is to benefit the totality of the army as well as gain combat res. The only units that can probably afford bot to have full commands would be the Miners and Rangers I suppose, and possibly the Hammerers as the won't neccessarily need a Musician.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Alao with the points left over I may be able to add some Thunderers or other additional Core.

why would you ever take belegar? the chap will never get his points back and even basic chaos warriors will bring him down in a round or two of combat. if you want a combat character take the slayer king

Well Belegar has an Oath Stone, and him being in Ironbreakers will assure that both he and the unit is at maximum effectivness. He also is immune to any Killing Blow, has Always Strikes First, +1 to hit, and a 3+ 6++ save. No ward save which could be bad, but I have a feeling like in the case one is needed it would be against a form of KIlling Blow. Also if he is with the Ironbreakera he will benefit from the Runesmiths AP, which he may need being S4, and that will match well with his +1 to Hit and double attacks ability in the case he faces a big challanger.

Ungrim is excellent and definitely one of my favorite Lords to have, but he is also 45 more points, doesn't have an Oath Stone, and can't join Ironbreakers or any unit except Slayers, due to the Slayer Cult rule. So, I would certainly take him, but that would also mean changing the main part of the list.

 Mountain-Breaker wrote:
However, the Ironbreakers will be in close enough proximity to the MRoGroth One-Eye to always be Stubborn, therefore gaining Steadfast, and although losing some will be detromental of course, they will have a 3+ save and a 5+ Parry at all times. But again, I do know what you are saying as losing some models on the back could be bad.

Bear in mind, a Ranks aren't just for gaining Steadfast.
It's a lot harder to win a combat if your opponent has full rank bonuses and you have none.
You'll be loosing a lot more combats.

I had thought about this and considered swapping MRoGroth for MRoStromni for the extra combat res. The unit with Belegar will be Stubborn still and I could put a RoStocisim with the other unit to make them Stubborn as well.... Losing combats could be bad but they will also always be using Ld10 and most likelt be able to re-roll with the BSB being nearby. The Ironbreakers will also be able to outlast many opponents i'd say, though them being only 3 ranks deep could still be potentially problematic.

 Mountain-Breaker wrote:
I had thought about this and considered swapping MRoGroth for MRoStromni for the extra combat res. The unit with Belegar will be Stubborn still and I could put a RoStocisim with the other unit to make them Stubborn as well.... Losing combats could be bad but they will also always be using Ld10 and most likelt be able to re-roll with the BSB being nearby. The Ironbreakers will also be able to outlast many opponents i'd say, though them being only 3 ranks deep could still be potentially problematic.

It takes a long time to destroy a unit through simply killing each model in combat.
During that time your unit is slowly being chiseled away.

Simply not running away, and killing a few models each turn won't win you much.
You need to break units.

Stubborn is nice. Never needing it is better, due to taking less casualties, causing more, and ending with a combat result that sees the enemy running and destroyed.

I see what you mean, this is why I intended to thin down the enemy units a bit with the war machines and give them support with from the Miners, Rangers ans Gyrobomber. I also did a revision in which I combined the Lonbeards into one large unit, and added a unit of GW Quarrellers.

 Mountain-Breaker wrote:
Belegar Ironhammer- 305pts

Lotta' points for this guy. If you want two Oathstones, why not just go with a standard Lord? Or, if you really want to save points and add bodies, just drop this guy and use the non-BSB Thane below. T5 and Ld10 is still pretty solid.

 Mountain-Breaker wrote:
Thane: BSB, Shield, MRoGroth One-Eye, RoBattle(1)- 203pts

I really don't like to see anything except Grungi on the BSB. A 4+ Ward save is awesome. A 5+ bubble against shooting on everyone nearby for 15pts more? That's incredible.
I'd also consider giving this guy a great weapon instead of a shield. S6 might come in handy in a list where you're packing so much S4.

 Mountain-Breaker wrote:
Thane: Shiele, Oath Stone, RoWarding, RoFortitude, RoStone- 168pts

One Rune of Warding? I'd save the 15pts. Or drop some of the other stuff and bump that to a 4+. Again, I'd go with a great weapon.

 Mountain-Breaker wrote:
Runesmith: Shield, RoSpellbreaking, MRoBalance- 113pts
Runesmith: Shield, RoSpellbreaking(2)- 108pts

I'd stick Runes of Stone on these guys, if possible.

 Mountain-Breaker wrote:
12 Longbeards: FC, Shields, Strollaz's Rune, Rosanctuary- 236pts

12 Longbeards: FC, Shields, Strollaz's Rune- 221pts

I'd get these units to at least 15 strong. And maybe swap one out for Quarrelers with great weapons? Some ranged ability and some S5 might come in handy.

 Mountain-Breaker wrote:
15 Ironbreakers: FC, RoSlowness, RoSanctuary, Cinderblast Bombs- 311pts
(Belegar, Thane-BSB, Runesmith)

16 Ironbreakers: FC, RoSlowness, Cinderblast Bombs- 304pts
(Thane-Oath Stone, Runealsmith)

I'd drop the Bombs, for sure. Even when you can use them, they're unreliable and ineffective. I'd also put your Runesmiths in your Core blocks, just to spread your points out, which is important in MSU lists.

 Mountain-Breaker wrote:
12 Hammerers: FC, MRoValaya- 263pts

Drop the Champion and put your General in here. Valaya is nice, but if you put Grungi on the BSB, I'd put Groth on these guys.

 Mountain-Breaker wrote:
12 Miners: FC, Steamdrill- 175pts

I'd drop the banner, at least. These guys aren't meant for big combats. It's just a liability, really.

 Mountain-Breaker wrote:
12 Rangers: FC- 198pts

Trying to find some love for these guys. It's hard. I'd rather have more Miners.

 Mountain-Breaker wrote:
Cannon: RoForging- 145pts

Grudge Thrower: RoAccuracey, RoForging- 130pts

Gyrobomber- 125pts

Not too impressed with the Gyrobomber. Gyrocopters, though, are awesome.

Also, wouldn't some Irondrakes fit right in with your Ironbreaker theme? They also compliment the MSU approach oh-so-well.
With the above revisions, I'd do something like:

1 Thane + great weapon + Master Rune of Gromil + Rune of Warding X3 + Oathstone (176, assuming Oathstones are 30pts. Can't recall)
1 Thane + great weapon + battle standard + Master Rune of Grungi + Rune of Battle + Oathstone (186)
1 Runesmith + shield + Rune of Stone + Rune of Spellbreaking X2 (108)
1 Runesmith + shield + Rune of Stone + Rune of Spellbreaking (93)

17 Quarrelers + great weapons + full command (268)
17 Quarrelers + great weapons + full command (268)
17 Longbeards + shields + full command (251)

15 Hammerers + musician + standard + Master Rune of Groth One-Eye (305)
15 Ironbreakers + full command + Strollaz Rune + Rune of Sanctuary (290)
15 Ironbreakers + full command + Strollaz Rune (275)
11 Miners + Prospector + Steam Drill (145)
1 Cannon + Rune of Forging (145)
1 Grudge Thrower + Rune of Accuracy (105)
1 Gyrocopter (80)

15 Irondrakes + full command + Drakefire Pistols + Rune of Slowness X2 (305)

Total: 3000, I think.