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Made in gb
Sinister Shapeshifter




The Lair of Vengeance....Poole.

With the advent of Naestra and Arahan on a single mount, and there being nothing set for that, I propose that we do the following to solve it:

"If two characters are on the same mount, any ranged weapons targetting them halves the wounds dealt, as well as the characters having a 5+ ward, or a -1 to hit against them."


This way, their special rule 'Conjoined Destiny' can still do something, with the average cannonball doing 2 wounds.

Lemme know what you think! First time I've done something like this. I'd appreciate any input.

Malifaux masters owned: Guild(Sans McCabe), Outcasts(Sans Misaki), Arcanists(Sans Marcus)

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Made in de
Decrepit Dakkanaut





I would rather use it the same way as Ridden Monsters work. Seems to be the most intuitive approach to me. (aka Randomize who's hit).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/06 21:23:02


   
Made in gb
Sinister Shapeshifter




The Lair of Vengeance....Poole.

You could do it that way, but this way works against both template weapons, and BS shooting in a sensible manner.

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Made in us
Killer Klaivex




Oceanside, CA

I think treating the eagle as a monstrous mount in this case is the best solution.
I'm ok with the templates hitting all 3 (after all, unless you kill both sisters the other comes back).


 thedarkavenger wrote:

So. I got a game with this list in. First game in at least 3-4 months.
 
   
Made in gb
Sinister Shapeshifter




The Lair of Vengeance....Poole.

 HawaiiMatt wrote:
I think treating the eagle as a monstrous mount in this case is the best solution.
I'm ok with the templates hitting all 3 (after all, unless you kill both sisters the other comes back).




You could do that, but why stop there ? Why not make all eagles monstrous?

Malifaux masters owned: Guild(Sans McCabe), Outcasts(Sans Misaki), Arcanists(Sans Marcus)

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Made in de
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 thedarkavenger wrote:
 HawaiiMatt wrote:
I think treating the eagle as a monstrous mount in this case is the best solution.
I'm ok with the templates hitting all 3 (after all, unless you kill both sisters the other comes back).




You could do that, but why stop there ? Why not make all eagles monstrous?


To be fair, it's not "just" an eagle they're riding, it's a named one. Furthermore, a mount for a character should definitely be different than the one for regular troops. Regular eagle cavalry riding regular eagles can easily work after the regular MC rules. Characters, however, should be different. And I am someone who prefers using intuitive solutions to problems, trying to avoid introducing new rules into the game - and thus prefer the "treat like Ridden Monster" solution.

Templates should definitely hit all of them and against regular BS, you can just assume that the characters try to duck behind their mount - sounds logical to me

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/10 18:10:54


   
Made in gb
Sinister Shapeshifter




The Lair of Vengeance....Poole.

 Sigvatr wrote:
 thedarkavenger wrote:
 HawaiiMatt wrote:
I think treating the eagle as a monstrous mount in this case is the best solution.
I'm ok with the templates hitting all 3 (after all, unless you kill both sisters the other comes back).




You could do that, but why stop there ? Why not make all eagles monstrous?


To be fair, it's not "just" an eagle they're riding, it's a named one. Furthermore, a mount for a character should definitely be different than the one for regular troops. Regular eagle cavalry riding regular eagles can easily work after the regular MC rules. Characters, however, should be different. And I am someone who prefers using intuitive solutions to problems, trying to avoid introducing new rules into the game - and thus prefer the "treat like Ridden Monster" solution.

Templates should definitely hit all of them and against regular BS, you can just assume that the characters try to duck behind their mount - sounds logical to me


So, by that logic, I can claim Seraphon isn't a monster. Because it's a named dragon.


The eagle is named, but still an eagle. And making the characters T4, 3 wound models still makes little to no difference if they get hit by a cannon, which is the main issue as to why I suggested adding the things I did.

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Made in de
Decrepit Dakkanaut





So they should get a strong buff because...they're new?

The issue isn't their strength, it's the lack of rules for them.

   
Made in gb
Sinister Shapeshifter




The Lair of Vengeance....Poole.

 Sigvatr wrote:
So they should get a strong buff because...they're new?

The issue isn't their strength, it's the lack of rules for them.


You miss the point. If we start making a precedent for one monstrous beast being treated as a monster, we open up the route for others. Hence I can claim that Seraphon isn't a monster because it's named.

Sure, they don't need a super buff, but they certainly don't need to be treated as something they aren't. Hence the half wounds. It means that their unique rule actually does something, without changing the character's rules. After all, they have a monstrous mount, why give them another.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/14 11:12:23


Malifaux masters owned: Guild(Sans McCabe), Outcasts(Sans Misaki), Arcanists(Sans Marcus)

Check my blog that I just started: http://unionfaux.blogspot.co.uk/ 
   
Made in us
Killer Klaivex




Oceanside, CA

 thedarkavenger wrote:
 Sigvatr wrote:
So they should get a strong buff because...they're new?

The issue isn't their strength, it's the lack of rules for them.


You miss the point. If we start making a precedent for one monstrous beast being treated as a monster, we open up the route for others. Hence I can claim that Seraphon isn't a monster because it's named.

Sure, they don't need a super buff, but they certainly don't need to be treated as something they aren't. Hence the half wounds. It means that their unique rule actually does something, without changing the character's rules. After all, they have a monstrous mount, why give them another.


It doesn't have to be a precedent. Ruling for one special character with a special mount doesn't mean that it would apply to others. If we're making up rules to fill the gap, we can just make up clear rules.
Like this:
The Sisters eagle is of exceptional size and training. Unlike every other eagle, their eagle is a monster and follows all the rules for monstrous mounts.


 thedarkavenger wrote:

So. I got a game with this list in. First game in at least 3-4 months.
 
   
Made in gb
Sinister Shapeshifter




The Lair of Vengeance....Poole.

 HawaiiMatt wrote:
 thedarkavenger wrote:
 Sigvatr wrote:
So they should get a strong buff because...they're new?

The issue isn't their strength, it's the lack of rules for them.


You miss the point. If we start making a precedent for one monstrous beast being treated as a monster, we open up the route for others. Hence I can claim that Seraphon isn't a monster because it's named.

Sure, they don't need a super buff, but they certainly don't need to be treated as something they aren't. Hence the half wounds. It means that their unique rule actually does something, without changing the character's rules. After all, they have a monstrous mount, why give them another.


It doesn't have to be a precedent. Ruling for one special character with a special mount doesn't mean that it would apply to others. If we're making up rules to fill the gap, we can just make up clear rules.
Like this:
The Sisters eagle is of exceptional size and training. Unlike every other eagle, their eagle is a monster and follows all the rules for monstrous mounts.




Again, by your logic, I can make up a rule to make Malekith and Seraphon not be treated as a monster. It may not be a precedent, but it makes the way for one to be set.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/14 14:56:06


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Made in ie
Sniping Hexa




Dublin

I'm with Matt on this one
Not because "it makes sense" or "it's logic"
But because it's simple and efficient, two qualities of all good (home)rules
Those sisters need home ruling, Malekith doesn't (well kinda, he's too expensive like most SC)

 
   
Made in gb
Sinister Shapeshifter




The Lair of Vengeance....Poole.

I never said malekith needs to be ruled that way. He's just the first character that came to mind for use as an example.

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Made in us
Inspiring Icon Bearer






The last book was pretty clear on these two on an eagle. IIRC One is hit the other is not, nothing affects the eagle. Each rider has 3 wounds. If both killed eagle is as well.

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Made in gb
Sinister Shapeshifter




The Lair of Vengeance....Poole.

 Acardia wrote:
The last book was pretty clear on these two on an eagle. IIRC One is hit the other is not, nothing affects the eagle. Each rider has 3 wounds. If both killed eagle is as well.



Yes. But in this book, that isn't there. So, they are pure MC. Which means, that the riders are killed with the eagle. But you use the eagle's toughness and wounds. And it's treated as a single model as per the rules.

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Made in us
Liche Priest Hierophant






What is the actual army-book entry say that 'unit' is?

Tomb Kings has the Warsphinx- a Sphinx that is being ridden by 4 Tomb Guard. The Tomb Guard have their own profile, weapons, attack with their own characteristics- But the "Warsphinx" as a unit considers the 4 Tomb Guard and the Sphinx they are riding to be a single "model", using the Sphinx's Wound and Toughness, etc., and when the Sphinx dies, the Tomb Guard die- plus, you cannot target them separately- all wounds are directed against the Sphinx.

Now, for that model, there's specific rules in the entry describing how they work. Is there anything similar in the Elves' book?

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Made in gb
Sinister Shapeshifter




The Lair of Vengeance....Poole.

Anvildude wrote:
What is the actual army-book entry say that 'unit' is?

Tomb Kings has the Warsphinx- a Sphinx that is being ridden by 4 Tomb Guard. The Tomb Guard have their own profile, weapons, attack with their own characteristics- But the "Warsphinx" as a unit considers the 4 Tomb Guard and the Sphinx they are riding to be a single "model", using the Sphinx's Wound and Toughness, etc., and when the Sphinx dies, the Tomb Guard die- plus, you cannot target them separately- all wounds are directed against the Sphinx.

Now, for that model, there's specific rules in the entry describing how they work. Is there anything similar in the Elves' book?



It considers both characters to be a single monstrous cav model. Which is the ENTIRE problem.

Malifaux masters owned: Guild(Sans McCabe), Outcasts(Sans Misaki), Arcanists(Sans Marcus)

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