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Made in us
Cosmic Joe





This is for people who left GW games (Partially or completely) and went on to play other games. This is not a place for rants against GW or for GW. I don't want to hear name calling such as "whiners" or "White Knights." What I do want to hear is why you left GW. Then tell us what games you went to and why you chose those over the numerous other options. Maybe a little background for context might help too.
So, no. This is not a GW bashing thread. Think of it as a celebration of diversity or something.

I'll start.
I started playing when my older brother bought a Rogue Trader from a friend. I was but a wee lad at the time but I fell in love with the darkness and warfare in the game. I loved the mixture of magic and technology and instantly started buying some space marines. After a while, me and my brother had a nice little collection of different factions. When 2nd hit, I started Sisters of Battle and they have been my primary army ever since. (by no means my only one though.)
Fast forward.
I took a little break in 5th and came back in 6th. I really liked 6th but was discouraged by the gross power differences in codexes. I heard much complaining that at the time I didn't understand. Then, when 7th came out, I saw all the things I didn't like about GW magnified and coupled with the business practices I had tried to ignore finally burst and I said "No more."

I started looking for alternatives. I had already been eying up Warmachine and Infinity. I heard they were both balanced and didn't have units that were usless rubbish or OP. They both looked very good and I'd hear players sing their praises. So I did my research carefully. The more of the fluff I read, the more I fell deeper into it. The world of Warmachine was far more deep and nuanced than I thought. Then I found the Iron Mother figure from Convergence of Cyriss from Warmachine and fell in love. I started a small army of Convergence. But I just couldn't escape Infinity either. The models were so dynamic and full of character (not to mention gorgeous details and proportion) that I couldn't resist. Also, the more I read up on the rules, the more fascinating they sounded. It was a deeply tactical game with realistic movements and a lot of thought put into it.

So, now I have a bunch of Lovecraftian machine worshiping cultists for Warmachine and a bunch of scrappy Nomads for Infinity. The more I play these games, the more excited I become about them.

Next is X-Wing.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/01 20:42:26




Also, check out my history blog: Minimum Wage Historian, a fun place to check out history that often falls between the couch cushions. 
   
Made in nz
Heroic Senior Officer




New Zealand

I stopped buying GW products and broadening out the day I purchased some Victoria Miniatures squads in a whim. Once I say them i started seeking out alternatives and found so many amazing models for better prices etc.

Then I got Flames of War rules for very cheap and that rule book is far superior to GW so I ended up searching for other rules that I could enjoy and play as well.

So while I dont buy from GW anymore (no more books either) I will still play the game. So I guess I have partially left.

I do think all Wargamers need to play at least 3 different games standard to broaden their experience and so on.

So now I have 1 fantasy and 40k army only. 1 armada fleet. 1 FLames of War force, a crap ton of roleplay stuff (not a serious roleplayer at all though, just a casual thing here) and very few GW models.

So I guess what drives me away from GW is their doing just enough. For example the 6th edition guard codex has the bare minimum display/writing of non cadian regiments. Their models are largely really weird proportions and many have the laziest detail I have ever seen. The rules are somewhat lazy too. Plus the huge costs.

I enjoy the good bits enough to stick with the game itself.

So if you can play more than one wargame guys, I highly suggest you and a mate start a new game just to try it. There is a reason most people who have branched out recommend it.
   
Made in gb
Is 'Eavy Metal Calling?





UK

Why I left GW:
From the start of my 40k days, I've been an advocate of using whatever models you can, GW, FW, converted or stock 3rd party models, so in that regard, I've been moving away from GW from the beginning. My Imperial Guard were the first army that used only 3 GW minis (2 Commissars and a Russ), and I also have a pre-Heresy army using Anvil Industry Exo-Lords.

My abandonment of, or rather a refusal to catch up with, the rules, came with the release of the new Imperial Guard and then 7th edition. For a start, I didn't feel the need to buy a new codex given that the 'current' (at the time) one worked perfectly well for what I wanted it for, and the changes could be summarised on a single side of A4 paper to tuck inside the codex.

Then, with 7th, it got worse; I had only 2 years mileage out of the book I paid £45 for on the week of release, and the new product I was being asked to buy contained huge amounts of recycled background, far less non-rules content, and the one major rules change (the introduction of a Psychic phase) was not something that was a part of the 40k I wanted to play. Fantasy can keep it's game-changing Wizards, I prefer Psykers as a more subtle and supporting role in sci-fi games. That, and the increased cost, meant 6th is here to stay for me.

Where I went afterwards:
Even before 40k took something of a back seat (and I do still play whenever I can, but the opportunities for that get fewer every week) I have opened myself up to other games. I've given Mantic's Warpath a shot in both iterations, vastly preferring the 2nd edition and if I could, I would get my dwindling gaming group to try that instead. I bought Deadzone on pre-release as I love the models, the rules, the gameplay, the aesthetic and the setting. Most recently, I've got into Malifaux with the money I would have otherwise spent on updating 40k books, and after only a couple of games I'm blown away with the quality of the rules. Having what are (in my opinion) the best models on the market for any game helps too

I've not left 40k behind, but it's not, and never really was, my only game.

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Los Angeles

I just jumped into All Quiet on the Martian Front, a 15mm scale game set in an alternate 1914 where the events described H.G. Wells' War of the Worlds actually took place. The game was designed and written by Rick Priestley, Alessio Cavatore and Ernie Baker.
It is a very new game and only recently became available at retail after fulfilling an extensive Kickstarter campaign. I didn't get involved during the Kickstarter, but I snagged a Kickstarter pledge on Bartertown and have two very large human and Martian armies. I am still muddling through the rules and haven't played a game yet, but the mechanics seem solid and the setting is really fun. The models are okay, not the best and certainly not the worst ones out there, and are reasonably priced. So far it seems that the company behind the game is very interactive with their fans, and there is a big emphasis on fun and creativity in the game. I need that. I was getting into a gaming funk, so to speak, and really began to lose interest in the endless purchasing cycle that I was starting to associate with 40k so something light hearted and fun has been most welcome.

I have also started playing Battletech again, and taught a friend of mine (and regular 40k opponent) to play. Battletech was my first game and holds a very dear place in my heart so it feels good to be stomping around in `Mechs again.

I haven't completely given up 40k, but I have not bought 7th edition and have no real plans to buy into that edition any time soon. The last 6 months have turned me off of 40k and 7th edition's release was the final nail in the 40k coffin. I just have no desire to deal with the negotiation required for 7th edition pick up games, and my regular gaming group of 4 guys was reduced to just me and another friend shortly before 7th's release. To be honest if that group of regular opponents was still functioning I'd likely still be playing 40k as my primary game, but now it is relegated to a tertiary spot on my priority list because dealing with all of the different codicies, formations, and expansions is just too much work.

So, for now I am going to push Martian tripods around and try to vaporize humans with heat rays. The lasguns and splinter weapons will have to sit on the shelf for a while.
   
Made in us
Cosmic Joe





 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
I just jumped into All Quiet on the Martian Front, a 15mm scale game set in an alternate 1914 where the events described H.G. Wells' War of the Worlds actually took place. The game was designed and written by Rick Priestley, Alessio Cavatore and Ernie Baker.
It is a very new game and only recently became available at retail after fulfilling an extensive Kickstarter campaign. I didn't get involved during the Kickstarter, but I snagged a Kickstarter pledge on Bartertown and have two very large human and Martian armies. I am still muddling through the rules and haven't played a game yet, but the mechanics seem solid and the setting is really fun. The models are okay, not the best and certainly not the worst ones out there, and are reasonably priced. So far it seems that the company behind the game is very interactive with their fans, and there is a big emphasis on fun and creativity in the game. I need that. I was getting into a gaming funk, so to speak, and really began to lose interest in the endless purchasing cycle that I was starting to associate with 40k so something light hearted and fun has been most welcome.

I have also started playing Battletech again, and taught a friend of mine (and regular 40k opponent) to play. Battletech was my first game and holds a very dear place in my heart so it feels good to be stomping around in `Mechs again.

I haven't completely given up 40k, but I have not bought 7th edition and have no real plans to buy into that edition any time soon. The last 6 months have turned me off of 40k and 7th edition's release was the final nail in the 40k coffin. I just have no desire to deal with the negotiation required for 7th edition pick up games, and my regular gaming group of 4 guys was reduced to just me and another friend shortly before 7th's release. To be honest if that group of regular opponents was still functioning I'd likely still be playing 40k as my primary game, but now it is relegated to a tertiary spot on my priority list because dealing with all of the different codicies, formations, and expansions is just too much work.

So, for now I am going to push Martian tripods around and try to vaporize humans with heat rays. The lasguns and splinter weapons will have to sit on the shelf for a while.


I've never heard of that game. Seeing as how War of the Worlds if one of my all time favorite books, I'll have to check it out!



Also, check out my history blog: Minimum Wage Historian, a fun place to check out history that often falls between the couch cushions. 
   
Made in ca
Pustulating Plague Priest






I haven't completely left GW, I still play their games, but I try to find much cheaper alternatives so its more like I've partially left.. (Hopefully that counts) The price range of GW's models is for me is quite simply, ridiculous.

I don't buy much from GW. The models, I've found, are too expensive for my taste. Instead, I buy the codex or army book related to an army that I want to play. After that, maybe I'll buy a commander model, but the majority, and sometimes all, of the army will be paper tokens or entirely proxied armies. I also make my own terrain, usually made out of cardboard. (I can't find foamboard) The unofficial WHFB army books also lower the costs I pay and appear to be quite good without being overpowered. There have also been some games where I've found FREE rules without the expectation of selling models, such as a Doctor Who miniatures game.

No idea if I will return to GW, but I will continue down this path until they change for (at least what I see as) the better.

Faithful... Enlightened... Ambitious... Brethren... WE NEED A NEW DRIVER! THIS ONE IS DEAD!  
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






Los Angeles

Definitely!

Here is the store: http://www.architectsofwar.com/allquietonthemartianfront.aspx
Here is the Kickstarter page: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1117201778/all-quiet-on-the-martian-front-miniature-tanks-vs (Check out the Land Iron Clad model...whoa!)
Here are the forums dedicated to the game: http://robotpeanutstudios.proboards.com/board/5/all-quiet-on-martian-front

Wow, I hope I get my check in the mail from Architects of war!
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Hampton Roads, VA

I started out with Tau when they where first released. I played them even when the codex was showing its age compared to the other codexs. I started playing IG as a second army in part because of the OOP models. I even made an entire army full of them. But I got tired of my well painted figures staying in a transport only to exit be on the table for one or two turns and being shot off the board. Also the price increases made fell that I was starting to not get my bang for my buck.

I took a break from 40k, turning to Infinity and now have at 4 factions (I might purge down to 2 soon) and painted terrain for at least two different boards. I got into malifuax as I liked the new plastic models, and the western, victorian, gothic horror style appealed to me and it gives me a nice non science fiction game to play. I am sticking to 3 factions, Guild, Outcasts, and 10 Thunders (But 10 Thunders lets me use models from each faction so I get a lot of mileage out of the minis) and enough terrain for at least one board.
Finally I play X-wing. I have a good mix of rebels and imperials and I always feel that I can make interesting lists for the rebels and the imperials.

I moved away from 40k and never got into fantasy despite trying a high elf army for short while because the game seemed too tired and the price increases made me feel that i was not getting my monies worth for what I was buying. I still like the lore even if I find it a little dull with the never ending war and grimdark, but I think I just got tired of the whole thing. Plus losing with my Tau constantly and then either winning big or losing big with IG did not help. I am not sure when I got tired of 40k and its setting but when I did, it was a hard fall and it felt like GW was not doing anything that was making me come back. Compared to CB, Wyrd, and FF they where able to grab my imagination, excitement, and my money.

Despite having a new tau codex come along that was good and the ability to play a all battlesuit army via farsight, I had sold all of my other GW stuff by then and the entry price for a new tau army was to much for me. I would have to sell all of my infinity minis and terrain, along with my malifaux minis terrain, and my X wing ships to get back to my old tau level where I had at least 4,000 points of tau. And selling three games just to get into one game in my mind is dumb.

My story at least.


"Hi, I'am Cthulu. I tried to call, but I kept getting your stupid answering machine."
Love's Eldritch Ichor

Blood is best stirred before battle, and nothing does that better than the bagpipes.

 
   
Made in us
Scouting Shadow Warrior




I saw a statement on here that I agree with wholeheartedly and that is to play at least 3 different war games. I've only been playing 40K since 2012 and since then I've branched out into quite a few different games. I play Deadzone, Dust Tactics, Bolt Action, Sedition Wars, Battles of Westeros, Battletech, and a few others whose names are escaping me at the moment. I love war and strategy games.

I can definitely understand the resentment towards GW's prices, especially when you can sometimes get a complete game for 25 bucks more than a standard unit for 40K costs. I've also recently discovered that certain games models make for excellent stand ins for some 40K armies. It's been a while since I've bought a new GW model, too busy spending money on other games. I love 40K but I left GW shortly after I got into the hobby....I think the thunderfire cannon might have been the last straw for me, 60 dollars for two shoddy models was asking a bit much.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




When I started 40k, it was right before 3rd edition came out. I saw my cousin painting khorne berzerkers one night and was fascinated. I ended up getting into blood angels.

I was in 7th or 8th grade, and I tried to recruit some friends to play. I successfully got 3 or 4 to purchase some models, but only ended up playing a few pick up games with two of them. I mostly played once a week with my cousin and his friend. It was a great time in my life.

Then I went to college and left it behind. About this time last year, I found an old box of my valhallan models and got the itch to paint again.

Having a pretty big army painted, and a new project to paint, I really wanted to start playing again, and I still do.

What is burning me out is the LAYERS and LAYERS of rules. Honestly I consider myself a reasonably intelligent person but the rules are a pain in the ass to keep track of and I don't'haven't played enough games against enough opponents to even know what I'm up against half the time.

You could completely make up a rule and I wouldn't even bother to argue it. It just seems like its gotten SO complex since 3rd edition.

That said, it is still my goal to fnish my guard army, combine it with my blood angels, and I have a 2k list of imperial fists that I'm happy with and about 25% painted.

So, I really haven't left GW, but I am at the point where I will never invest in another game of theirs. I REALLY love the look of fantasy, but with the way I paint, and the amount of money I'd be looking at I can't even begin to imagine starting fantasy.

Not to mention problem number 1 for me- recruiting players. I don't know many people that play fantasy, and the ones that do are the annoying young ones that have an obscene model count of unpainted stuff. Sorry, but I spend a gakload of time on my models and I want to see a good looking game unfold.

I'm lookint at pulling the trigger on Kings of War by Mantic soon. I think it will be an easier game to learn and teach to others and I can still use fantasy models if I really like. I'm really excited by this game for some reason, and I hope it can keep me out of fantasy. We'll see.

 
   
Made in gb
Raging Rat Ogre




I supplement my Games Workshop gaming with a bit of X-Wing , I paint and collect the occasional Corvus Belli Infinity model but I've not yet got around to playing a proper game.

At the moment I'm looking into Flames of War, I've got some PSC Panzer IV's and Tigers and they've been a blast to put together, hopefully the start of a DAK force.

I've not left GW but I've broadened my horizons, It's all great fun
   
Made in gb
Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle





Oxfordshire UK

Still an avid player of 2nd Ed 40k. I've played every version since Rogue Trader, and 2nd sits best with me. I've not really left GW games, I still play Blood Bowl, Warhammer Quest and Mordhiem, but just recently I've been getting into Dropzone Commander and I'll be playing some Deadzone for the first time soon.

As for the prices of miniatures, eBay is my friend.

I never really played Warhammer Fantasy, but I have every army book for 5th edition and the Perry's make some spot on Empire stand ins with their War Of The Roses minis. So I'll be doing that in the future. Although I still play GW games, it's the older versions and the specialist games that get my love and attention.


 
   
Made in us
Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine






While I haven't left, I have picked up X-Wing and it's been fun so far.

That being said, TC, "why you left GW" doesn't really have a relevance to the conversation here, so if you want to not let it devolve at some point, I'd take that part out. The core of your post is "what games do you play beyond GW, and why do you enjoy them?", keep it simple.

4500
 
   
Made in de
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Still got all my miniatures, but rarely play anymore. Last thing I bought was in November '13. Scratch-built some stuff.

Went on to Flames of War due to far superior rules. Lik, holy god, SO. MUCH. SUPERIOR.

   
Made in us
Cosmic Joe





 troa wrote:
While I haven't left, I have picked up X-Wing and it's been fun so far.

That being said, TC, "why you left GW" doesn't really have a relevance to the conversation here, so if you want to not let it devolve at some point, I'd take that part out. The core of your post is "what games do you play beyond GW, and why do you enjoy them?", keep it simple.

But the reason for this post was about exodus. I want to find out who left, why, and where they went.



Also, check out my history blog: Minimum Wage Historian, a fun place to check out history that often falls between the couch cushions. 
   
Made in us
Bounding Ultramarine Assault Trooper






It's hard to say why I got out of GW without going on a rant so I'll just say: an expanding interest in other games, maturing as a person, developing a life (college, job, wife, pets, house, etc...) and the ever rising cost of anything GW.

I was looking at other, smaller games. I found Warmachine back in Mk. I, but that didn't work out and I quickly became disillusioned with the game. I always loved Historicals, so when Flames of War came out I dove head first into that and haven't regretted it for a moment.

In general though I now look at smaller games that involve less of a financial commitment, be they miniature or collectible or what, that are stand alone or I just collect various figures for use with independent rule sets. There are a ton of 15mm rule sets out if you don't like FoW. I can use my small collection of 28mm cowboys with about any rule set. I also write my own rule sets for various games.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/01 22:48:36


You can't fix stupid. 
   
Made in us
Androgynous Daemon Prince of Slaanesh





Norwalk, Connecticut

I quit buying GW for the prices, and stopped playing the game for the terrible rules. Sure, some people like them still. Some people are also into poo-porn. I try not to judge.

I started playing KoW right after GW, Deadzone and X-Wing followed, and now I'm starting Warmachine. Individual model costs are high, but I have a pretty large Khador force for $200: widowmakers, starter set, winter guard, Kovnik joe, standard/sergeant, eButcher, 3 units DRs and Fenris. All of that is metal except the starter, and I don't feel overwhelmed. The basics were taught to me within an hour and it feels less complex and more gratifying.

Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.

Manchu wrote:I'm a Catholic. We eat our God.


Due to work, I can usually only ship any sales or trades out on Saturday morning. Please trade/purchase with this in mind.  
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Thoughts on KOW?

 
   
Made in au
Norn Queen






Why I left: Prices.

I haven't 'left' them really, I still have my Tyranids, and even bought the 5th edition codex. I haven't played for over a year though.

But what really put me off was simply Australian pricing. $40 for a box of infantry I can grudgingly swallow. $75 for 3 Warriors even more grudgingly. $100 for a single monstrous creature? Cast in the cheapest material you can for a miniature? No. $115 for something about the same size but with wings? feth off. When I need so many to make a standard sized army? I'm gone.

I stuck with 40k for a long time because it's what my group played. We tried forays into other game systems, almost always still GW games, but nothing really stuck. We always went back to 40k, and joked that 'the next price hike would be the last'. Well, it's ironic that GW's last actual price hike (before they moved to increasing prices only on repacks) was the last straw. I'm done. I'm not paying their prices, and haven't since I bought the 5th edition Tyranid codex. 7th edition 40k? Nope.

What I moved on to: Infinity

Here's a game that appeals to me. The small model count lets me paint one model at a time and still feel like I'm getting somewhere. Here's a game that lets me indulge in fantastic terrain that actually makes a difference on the table. And run by a company that not only interacts with the community but has studio members that play at tournaments and know their game, and playtest it properly. I can make a game out of a bunch of models I like the look of and have a competitive army - what a concept!

The challenge was getting people I knew to play it. As above, we never managed to break away from 40k before, but I wasn't giving up Infinity. I managed to talk my brother into trying it, and now he's as interested in the system as me. I got a friend into it as well, though a bit less enthusiastically. We're still working on getting the other two into it.

I haven't sold my Tyranids, nor do I intend to. If GW ever actually wake up, fix their pricing and fix their rules, I'll get back into 40k. But for now, I don't see the point.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/01 23:46:53


 
   
Made in us
Androgynous Daemon Prince of Slaanesh





Norwalk, Connecticut

VanHallan wrote:
Thoughts on KOW?


Fantastic. Rules wise, it's similar to 6th edition fantasy, but with much less dependence on magic. Magic is a supplement, not a requirement. The rules are tight and blow WHFB out of the water.

Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.

Manchu wrote:I'm a Catholic. We eat our God.


Due to work, I can usually only ship any sales or trades out on Saturday morning. Please trade/purchase with this in mind.  
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





I started 40k in 4th edition and played most of my games in that edition, playing several games a week at a local store. 5th edition, I bought the big book and the starter for the paperback rulebook just for transporting. 6th edition came out and I didnt even buy the big rulebook, just the paperback/starter. I honestly don't play anywhere like I did: life, family, work, local store closure all seems to affect time. I get maybe 2 games in a month (on a good month)...

Now, I'm looking at 7th edition with no starter paperback rule book. Since I play Orks I have that new codex and the source book I'm eying too. The big question is

Do I really wanna drop 85+50+50 for new books AND cash on models to tweek my orks to get them enjoying the new codex? Or just stop GW and try out another game entirely like Dropzone Commander? I could easily drop $350US. Do I? or do I look into a "lighter" game like one of those skirmish games from infinity, manic, or mallifaux that don't seem to require as much time and cash to play?




 
   
Made in us
Cosmic Joe





 Phydox wrote:
I started 40k in 4th edition and played most of my games in that edition, playing several games a week at a local store. 5th edition, I bought the big book and the starter for the paperback rulebook just for transporting. 6th edition came out and I didnt even buy the big rulebook, just the paperback/starter. I honestly don't play anywhere like I did: life, family, work, local store closure all seems to affect time. I get maybe 2 games in a month (on a good month)...

Now, I'm looking at 7th edition with no starter paperback rule book. Since I play Orks I have that new codex and the source book I'm eying too. The big question is

Do I really wanna drop 85+50+50 for new books AND cash on models to tweek my orks to get them enjoying the new codex? Or just stop GW and try out another game entirely like Dropzone Commander? I could easily drop $350US. Do I? or do I look into a "lighter" game like one of those skirmish games from infinity, manic, or mallifaux that don't seem to require as much time and cash to play?

I'd also throw in 'time' as another variable. Time to paint up a force, time for set up and time for play. Me, I just can't justify the time it takes for 40k anymore. I have deadlines to make. But the smaller games I can get in and often get more of my strategy ich scratched.



Also, check out my history blog: Minimum Wage Historian, a fun place to check out history that often falls between the couch cushions. 
   
Made in us
Nervous Accuser




South Carolina

I started playing 40k at the tail end of the Rouge Trader days and left after (I think) 4th edition came out. I had a really nice crimson fist army and a awesome steel legion army. When the rules came out, GW saw fit to delete two of my main tanks, te griffon and the exterminator. Two models that I had paid good money for. I was already tired of buying a new rule book every couple years. Everything was going up in price. I played bloodbowl, man o war, necromunda, gorka morka, battlefleet gothic, and a few others. I got tired of the lack of support for the smaller games and increased costs and stupid rules changes with 40k. I still read the books though. Love the fluff.
   
Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




Tampa, FL

I played 40k from 1996-2001, then ended up stopping playing because there was a falling out with my then-local FLGS that basically blacklisted me from the store, the next-closest FLGS was like an hour away and the people there weren't friendly (very cliqueish and seemed like they didn't take well to "outsiders") the few times I had gone over. I tried to start again in 2006 but got sidetracked and abandoned the idea. I wanted to start yet again the end of 2013/early 2014, but I saw what GW had become and didn't want to touch a broken game after reading and watching some things on how 6th edition played, it seemed like they took the worst qualities of everything and threw it out there with a refusal to care about making it good. I looked at the prices, and vowed to never pay such outrageous costs for so little.

I picked up Warmachine about two months ago, but have only played a few games. As far as games go, it's good, but the more I think about it the less I like it; I'm not 100% sure why, it just feels bland, mechanical and soulless, and I'm not sure if I'm going to continue with it; just something about it doesn't "click" with me. It feels almost opposite like 40k - where 40k didn't feel like a game, Warmachine feels too much like a game. The best way I can describe it is that it almost feels like playing an MMO or MOBA; the storyline is there, but I don't care about it, I want to win. It brings out the worst of me, tempered by several years now of playing World of Warcraft. Either I win, or I get frustrated at failure.

On Sunday I played a demo of Bolt Action, and it was amazing. I loved how the game played, how clear but cinematic it felt, and most of all how even though I lost both demo games I played, losing felt like part of the story (the "narrative" if you will), not "You messed up and failed" like I feel every time I lose in Warmachine (which is often). My Germans got overrun twice, and it didn't feel bad at all. It actually felt like that *should* have happened. I still recall some awesome "movie-like" moments in the demo games I played. It, for lack of a better way of expressing it, felt like a wargame should.

I want to play KoW, but nobody plays Fantasy here anyways and the few that did that I talked to refused to consider anything outside of GW and got openly hostile when I was talking up the benefits of Kings of War, so I abandoned that idea. It's on the slate as something I want to play with my brother at some point as many years ago he played WHFB with me. Other games somewhat interest me but there's zero interest in them, I think I was lucky enough that people wanted to try Bolt Action when someone offered to demo it, seeing as that particular FLGS had Malifaux people who disappeared (and it didn't look that great to me, but I'd have given it a try) and no longer stocks Warmachine because nobody wants to play that either. This FLGS is very much still in the GW/40k camp with people that just like 40k and can't give it up despite its failings, although hopefully with Bolt Action now being stocked and people showing interest that will be chipped away. I keep reiterating to everyone and anyone within earshot at the store that there is so much more out there than just 40k. I'd love to try more historicals like Ancients or Napoleonics or Civil War, I'd love to try FOW or DZC or Deadzone, even something I really have zero interest in like Dreadball. But nope, it's been all 40k all the time, and nobody knows or cares about the myriad of other games out there; I think it's because they've invested a bit in 40k (but ironically most of them buy secondhand on eBay) so don't want to put money into other games, so because a core group play 40k others play 40k so they have people to play with, etc. and they are kept on the treadmill.

I still think of giving 40k one final chance, since I have roughly 1,000ish points of Tau from 2006 lying around, and it's still popular at the FLGS with people who, for whatever reason, just won't look elsewhere. Of course, I'd buy anything off of eBay as I refuse to give GW any money for what they've become. For me, the prices are the biggest thing. If the prices were reasonable, I'd forgive a shoddy system because I'd only play it casually. But when the rules suck and the company charges an arm and a leg for "premium" products that in reality aren't any better than others, no way.

This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2014/07/02 02:18:03


- Wayne
Formerly WayneTheGame 
   
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Posts with Authority






It is more accurate to say that I have left the current GW - I still play and enjoy Mordheim, Necromunda, and the third editions of both Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000.

But I play Kings of War more than any other game, though I still enjoy Mordheim more than either Warhammer or 40K.

Heck, I play more Deadzone than either, these days, and I do not get to play nearly enough Deadzone. (My group plays it a lot... on a night that I am working. The bastards.)

The why... I do not much like anything about GW these days - I do not like the rules, and I do not like a lot of the miniatures.

And I really do not like the shenanigans that GW is getting up to as a corporation.

While I do not like the prices, the prices are the least of the issues.

The Auld Grump

Kilkrazy wrote:When I was a young boy all my wargames were narratively based because I played with my toy soldiers and vehicles without the use of any rules.

The reason I bought rules and became a real wargamer was because I wanted a properly thought out structure to govern the action instead of just making things up as I went along.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




I've been in and out several times:

Started in third, played into fourth. During this time I had tried out a couple of interesting new games: Warmachine (Mk 1 rules) and Flames of War, neither really took hold for me.

Then the game store I played at closed down and the fallout caused my former group to scatter to the winds, so I took a extended break.

When I came back it was near the end of 5th. I gamely tried updating my Salamanders from their 3rd ed list (my 4th ed list would have been grossly illegal), but pricing made it difficult.

I rediscovered Warmachine with its Mk2 rules (a vast improvement) and started looking into FoW again (especially after Blood Guts, and Glory made my preferred army, US tank company, so much more viable).

Also, I discovered Dropzone Commander and its fantastic models.

Alas I was nowhere near fielding a FoW army, couldn't make it on the official WM nights (and they generally didn't show up on open gaming nights), and while people people were buying DZC armies, they just weren't bringing them in to play during 5th and 6th ed 40K
Then I had to go on hiatus again (new future gamer was added to the family), and when I came back it was 7th, with needing to buy a new $85 rulebook and a whole new meta.

Luckily another DZC player appeared around this time and people were becoming much more interested in the game after watching us play...
   
Made in us
Major




In a van down by the river

I started with GW back in the 80s when my friend's brother introduced me to the world. One of my brothers also had a decent number of 40k models from the Rogue Trader era, and I still have a few of the books he had from then too (including Rogue Trader itself). I wasn't particularly old nor was I possessed of a great deal of money so my RTB01 marines were the sum of my collection for a while. In the late 90s some of my friends from high school were playing a game and it occurred to me that I could actually get some stuff now so I ended up getting gifts here and there, shopping on Bartertown, etc. A few years passed and having a real job and a hermit-like lifestyle enabled me to amass a staggering collection of GW stuff. My not-particularly-complete inventory has 3400 models in it, and it's likely only about 60-80% finished. I'm not a casual fly-by-night customer, in other words...or particularly sane thinking about it.

My drifting away really started back when the Helldrake came out. Yeah, the near-annual price increases to that point had sucked, as did my growing pile of obsolete codexes from 3rd Edition on, but I still loved most of the armies and models. The Helldrake and other CSM releases at the time just...didn't excite me. I didn't like the models at all, and thus I wasn't going to pay a premium for them. That's a pattern that repeated itself with nearly every release from that time (Oct 2012?) with the only notable exceptions being the Tau, Vampire Counts and Imperial Knights. In that time, many of my favorite armies have been updated, but I just couldn't muster the energy to care as the new stuff was not nearly cool enough to justify the asking price for me. Over time as my interests elsewhere picked up I stopped buying the books because it was money that could go to increasing interests rather than waning ones.

The "meh" attitude towards GW was cemented by their hurried release of 7th edition. I dropped a decent bit of coin on 6th and some of the neat toys it came with, and in 2 years GW basically sent the hat back around. My lack of playing a single game in 6th combined with a lot of their other dubious actions (not getting into a rant there) made me realize that I just had had enough. It's doubtful I'll get back into GW rulesets due to the $135 price tag currently, though I wouldn't rule out buying particular models I may like in the future.

In the interim, the game that's seen the most playtime from me is X-Wing, because I was a huge Star Wars nerd before I was a 40k nerd. I have ridiculously sized fleets for both sides (including 15 Wave 4 ships waiting for me to unpack them) and enjoy the game when I get a chance to play it. I'm not particularly good at it, but what's not to love about reliving all those times spent with the toys or the classic LucasArts video games?

For more traditional miniatures game stuff I have a *huge* amount of DeadZone stuff, and have a complete collection of DreadBall (including Extreme when it ships). Dreadball is a nice change of pace as a "sports" game and DeadZone scratches the "skirmish level game" itch. The idea of using DeadZone tiles to build a Death Star trench board for X-Wing still lingers in the back of my mind since I have the battlezones to do it (did I mention it was a huge amount of stuff?). I keep eyeing my WHFB models and Mantic's KoW rules so that might be something that happens in 2044 when I get around to actually finishing a WHFB army.

I'm also waiting on a few other KS projects; in particular KD:M has me in semi-permanent "Kid before Christmas" mode.

My latest foray has been into Flames of War because I loved old school Space Marine/Epic 40,000 and I love history, WW2 in particular (nostalgia...big selling point for me apparently). I haven't gotten too far into that other than collecting up the models I want to start with, but so far it's been fun to assemble and paint things. I'm also trying out all sorts of new hobby things as a result of FoW in terms of basing and such so it's like those heady first days in the hobby where you have no idea what you're doing, but it's still fun to just put something together. There will definitely be more dollars going towards this in the near future, even if I'm trying to be more sensible with my spending (mortgages don't pay themselves off, unfortunately).

Boring story, but you did ask...
   
Made in us
Hacking Proxy Mk.1





Australia

I started collecting Lord of the Rings models waaaaay back when they first came out but never really played, just painted (I was like 12 at the time). I eventually branched out and entered 40k as 5th edition hit. I even joined a club to get some actual games in.

Since I began 40k I had had half an eye on fantasy and bought into it as 8th hit 2 years later.

Fast forward another year, year and a half years and the club had dwindled down to about 6 regulars. One of those regulars played blood angels (at the time a top teir army) with the typical netlist of the day. My fluffy armoured company couldn't do anything to beat that list and I quickly got sick of playing him. Fantasy took over more and more as my primary game. By the tail end of 6th I had stopped playing 40k, mostly due to the rules. The prices hurt too but it was the rules that did it.

I never actually stopped and considered that I had quit, I just waved it off as focusing on fantasy. I was fully prepared to jump back in when I heard 6th was coming. Then I played an introduction game of 6th and realized I was done.

I have now found the same thing has happened with fantasy in the last year, dystopian wars took its place as my main game, and I played fantasy less and less until I had a choice between a fantasy and dyst wars tournament on the same day. I went in for dyst wars and realized I had left fantasy behind too.

So thats how it went for me, not with a bang but with a fizzle. I found games with better rules, the same or better models at better prices and I just stopped caring. I play a lot more than just dyst wars now and I do still buy GW products to paint occasionally, but they used to get 100% of my hobby dollar, maybe $1,000 a year. Now that I work full time they have gotten all of $200 or so off me since the start of the years while I have spent well over $4,000 in the same time frame on the wider hobby.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/02 02:21:18


 Fafnir wrote:
Oh, I certainly vote with my dollar, but the problem is that that is not enough. The problem with the 'vote with your dollar' response is that it doesn't take into account why we're not buying the product. I want to enjoy 40k enough to buy back in. It was my introduction to traditional games, and there was a time when I enjoyed it very much. I want to buy 40k, but Gamesworkshop is doing their very best to push me away, and simply not buying their product won't tell them that.
 
   
Made in us
Wraith






I suppose it's cathartic to air ones grievances in a place "everyone knows your name" (or thoughts...).

I started in Oct 2010 in a small community built around beatface builds. Played in 'Ard Boyz my first year and took 4th or 3rd locally, pretty good for a scrub. Long story short, started traveling for work and I started getting snubbed for games because I was "too WAAC" to use the slang for brevity. The rules "slide," as creep implies a direction other than down, culminated this last December for me with the first attempt of adding Apoc to my 40k along with digital content as exorbitant pricing. Let it be said, the pricing never bothered me much until the value of the rules tanked hard and they started doing crap like Eldar Dire Avengers nonsense. Paying for quality is one thing, but for reduced value makes you feel like a sucker.

I've tried other games but not until recently did I double down on Warmachine, Infinity, and Malifaux. I'd play others if there was a following to try them, but I'm leery about investing into games without an established crowd. I sold a good chunk of 40k to grease the wheels on this but still have 4 armies in the wings to keep around. I'm taking the risk that the company will tank hard enough to either force better quality control and put the company on a different path or the out right failure and buy out of another company to "fix" things. Too much like TSR is what's being said these days.

I play Malifaux (Guild, Outcasts, & want Arcanists), Infinity (Ariadna), and Warmahordes (Cryx, Circle), for the record. Loving the decisiveness of the rules, but also see issues with each company. Wyrd has distribution problems, Infinity's rulebook layout makes GW look good in comparison (the rules are still better, though...), and PP gets a bit of stink eye for some expensive ass models of their own. BUT each company still goes out of their way to talk to customers and make them feel apart of a community, so I feel like I'm getting a better value. And I no longer worry about what models I bring or what lists I build; I just play.

I just... play. Refreshing.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/02 02:29:51


Shine on, Kaldor Dayglow!
Not Ken Lobb

 
   
Made in us
Cosmic Joe





 jonolikespie wrote:
I started collecting Lord of the Rings models waaaaay back when they first came out but never really played, just painted (I was like 12 at the time). I eventually branched out and entered 40k as 5th edition hit. I even joined a club to get some actual games in.

Since I began 40k I had had half an eye on fantasy and bought into it as 8th hit 2 years later.

Fast forward another year, year and a half years and the club had dwindled down to about 6 regulars. One of those regulars played blood angels (at the time a top teir army) with the typical netlist of the day. My fluffy armoured company couldn't do anything to beat that list and I quickly got sick of playing him. Fantasy took over more and more as my primary game. By the tail end of 6th I had stopped playing 40k, mostly due to the rules. The prices hurt too but it was the rules that did it.

I never actually stopped and considered that I had quit, I just waved it off as focusing on fantasy. I was fully prepared to jump back in when I heard 6th was coming. Then I played an introduction game of 6th and realized I was done.

I have now found the same thing has happened with fantasy in the last year, dystopian wars took its place as my main game, and I played fantasy less and less until I had a choice between a fantasy and dyst wars tournament on the same day. I went in for dyst wars and realized I had left fantasy behind too.

So thats how it went for me, not with a bang but with a fizzle. I found games with better rules, the same or better models at better prices and I just stopped caring. I play a lot more than just dyst wars now and I do still buy GW products to paint occasionally, but they used to get 100% of my hobby dollar, maybe $1,000 a year. Now that I work full time they have gotten all of $200 or so off me since the start of the years while I have spent well over $4,000 in the same time frame on the wider hobby.

Why did you choose Dystopian Wars?



Also, check out my history blog: Minimum Wage Historian, a fun place to check out history that often falls between the couch cushions. 
   
 
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