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Slaughtermaster, lvl 4, Ironfists hell heart, 4+ ward save (++)

Butcher lvl 1, Ironfists, 5++, lore of beasts

Firebelly, fencers blades

Bruiser, BSB, heavy armour, enchanted shield

4 Mournfang, full command,dragon hide banner, heavy armour, Ironfists.

Sabretusk
Sabre tusk

4 LeadBelchers, bellower
4 LeadBelchers,bellower

Ironblaster

8 Ironguts, full command, standard of discipline

9 ogres full command,iron fists

This is a list for a tournament coming up later in the year, but as I'm pretty new to the game I need to get focussing in on learning it's play style, what are people's initial thoughts, feelings about the list? Any changes you would suggest?

Eldercaveman wrote:
Slaughtermaster, lvl 4, Ironfists hell heart, 4+ ward save (++) A level 4 is the best choice you have as an army general. The ironfist is a good choice but not worth it when it just leads to a 6+. My recomendation would be to give him the armor of destiny which is heavy armor with a 4++ so combine that with an ironfist gives you a 4+/4++ on a character when taking the maw can heal a wound each time he sucessfully casts a spell(which should be at least 1-2 each turn). A big thing you give up having a wizard as your general is the higher leadership. To combat that I would do something to help you with that because if he is in your big block you do NOT want that going anywhere. I would give him the crown of command. This will be combined with the standard of discipline on the irongut units giving your "deathstar" LD9 stubborn. The helhart, this is a great item but not on your army general. If you wanted to use this i would put it on a low level caster who isnt worth 500+ victory points.

Butcher lvl 1, Ironfists, 5++, lore of beasts A lvl 1 of beasts you cant go wrong with. Its great for wyssans and as a scroll caddy/helheart. The 5++ I think is a waste of points imo. Hes not a high value target

Firebelly, fencers blades The firebelly is a good choice but truly the only upgrade you want to give him would be either a great weapon or scroll. fencers blades are expensive and not going to make him some uber killing machine

Bruiser, BSB, heavy armour, enchanted shield The only thing i would change here is to give him the talisman of preservation from the SM so that your bsb has a 4++. One failed look out sir roll and he gets cannon sniped. Very sad. Your bsb needs a ward save and when you can give him a 4++ you should do it. His t5 and 4w will take him only so far against half of the field of enemies.

4 Mournfang, full command,dragon hide banner, heavy armour, Ironfists. Great unit and solid build but in my experiance i have found that the points for the dragonhide banner and full command arent always worth it. It is an expensive banner that is awesome mainly because mournfang almost always get the charge but with the shear number of dice you are rolling the rerolling ones will not be the deciding factor if you win combat or not. If you dont win combat on the charge without the dragonhide banner then you charged the wrong unit. I would keep the heavy armor, ironfists and musician. If you are really scratching for points a 3 man unit of these work very well too.

Sabretusk good choice. if you can fit a 3rd they are universally useful.
Sabre tusk

4 LeadBelchers, bellower This unit is much much much better then when i started playing. I usually dont use them as i favor another bigger unit of bulls but these run 2x2 are very effective. Either leave them as is or remove all 8 though. 1 unit of 4 wont do a whole lot but 2 units will be much more effective.
4 LeadBelchers,bellower

Ironblaster I never leave home without one or 2.

8 Ironguts, full command, standard of discipline the only thing I would do is add 2 more guts and make a 4x3 unit that keeps your bsb in the second rank because the full command has to be in the front rank

9 ogres full command,iron fists again great unit but I would consider making this an 8man unit and go 3x3.

This is a list for a tournament coming up later in the year, but as I'm pretty new to the game I need to get focussing in on learning it's play style, what are people's initial thoughts, feelings about the list? Any changes you would suggest?

Over all this is a good list and just needs some minor changes IMO. One big thing you have to keep in mind is character placement. You really dont want your wizards taking challanges from chaos lords but you also dont want to lose those attacks. So unit champions where you plan on putting your characters are important. I took something VERY similar to adepticon and did fairly well. The only thing that really hurt me was a cron witchstar. Other then that I went 3-2 and the second loss was only by ~200 VP which isnt that bad(still a loss) in a 2400 point game. The a dispel scroll is very important imo because if you are running a gutstar a well casted dwellers can render that unit useless and it will struggle to survive the rest of the game.

Cheers for the detailed reply, I'll get to a full response when I get to my computer later. But I thought I would drop this hear in the mean time, this is the comp I have to work to.

Ogre Kingdoms
You may select a maximum of 7 choices from the list below
· Mournfang Cavalry unit
· Third Mournfang Cavalry unit (Counts as 2 Choices)
· Ironblaster
· Second Ironblaster (Counts as 3 Choices)
· Unit of Maneaters with the Stubborn special rule
· Crown of Command
· Standard of Discipline
· Hellheart
· Slaughtermaster
Additional Restrictions:
- If the Magic Standard Rune maw is s chosen, no non-character unit in the army
may cost more than 500 points (including all upgrades, magic banners, command etc)

You definitely fit into this comp. Right now as is you only have 5 and if you changed things exactly as I suggested you would still be at 5. The only way I see you having an issue is if you want to bring a second ironblaster. That would bring you to 8. If you wanted to run a ten man unit of ironguts with full command and standard of discipline you would still be under that 500 point cap. I think it comes in about 475, not including characters. Add a bsb and lvl 4 sm kitted out its input 1000 but the comp didn't say including characters. If you want to add a helheart I would put it on your firebelly. Have him sprint out of a unit, pop the helheart, flame a unit using the template, the template is 99% of the time better then 2d6. Get him between units out of line of sight. Even if he does get charged, challenge as most characters won't have enough attacks to kill him and even if declined odds are rank and file won't do 4 wounds on t5.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and the second ironblaster is way over comped. 2 choices I see but not 3. That would be the khorne cannon because its only like 110 points. The second unit of mournfang.....well then you would be tfg. 2 4man units of mournfang can handle most armies on their own. 2+ save with up to 11 attacks each on the charge for 70 points? Wow. I have seen every kind if unit in the game, except for the uber deathstars, fall time and time again to that charge. Fail a fear check and don't even bother rolling the dice lol.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Maybe in the next book you will mount a character on a mournfang. Is there a restriction on forgeworld? If not drop the mournfang all together and run rhinox riders one unit of 3 and bring your second ironblaster. That would be a Dick move as well as being within the comp.

 namiel wrote:

Eldercaveman wrote:
Slaughtermaster, lvl 4, Ironfists hell heart, 4+ ward save (++) A level 4 is the best choice you have as an army general. The ironfist is a good choice but not worth it when it just leads to a 6+. My recomendation would be to give him the armor of destiny which is heavy armor with a 4++ so combine that with an ironfist gives you a 4+/4++ on a character when taking the maw can heal a wound each time he sucessfully casts a spell(which should be at least 1-2 each turn). A big thing you give up having a wizard as your general is the higher leadership. To combat that I would do something to help you with that because if he is in your big block you do NOT want that going anywhere. I would give him the crown of command. This will be combined with the standard of discipline on the irongut units giving your "deathstar" LD9 stubborn. The helhart, this is a great item but not on your army general. If you wanted to use this i would put it on a low level caster who isnt worth 500+ victory points.
I'm of the school of thought that Wizards shouldn't get armour, so I don't take it on principle. It was a mishap with the rules, and the FAQ says that you can but you shouldn't really. But the Crown of command I can see being a good idea.


Butcher lvl 1, Ironfists, 5++, lore of beasts A lvl 1 of beasts you cant go wrong with. Its great for wyssans and as a scroll caddy/helheart. The 5++ I think is a waste of points imo. Hes not a high value target
So would you run him without any kind of save, just the 6+ from the Ironfist?

Firebelly, fencers blades The firebelly is a good choice but truly the only upgrade you want to give him would be either a great weapon or scroll. fencers blades are expensive and not going to make him some uber killing machine
So better off stripping back the Firebelly, I suppose a great weapon, he isn't loosing much in the initiative steps, and becomes a threat to everything with Str6.

Bruiser, BSB, heavy armour, enchanted shield The only thing i would change here is to give him the talisman of preservation from the SM so that your bsb has a 4++. One failed look out sir roll and he gets cannon sniped. Very sad. Your bsb needs a ward save and when you can give him a 4++ you should do it. His t5 and 4w will take him only so far against half of the field of enemies.
Not sure if he has the points to do this, but maybe give him the Armour of Destiny, and drop the Enchanted shield for a Ironfist, giving him the 4+/4++ like you said for the SM?

4 Mournfang, full command,dragon hide banner, heavy armour, Ironfists. Great unit and solid build but in my experiance i have found that the points for the dragonhide banner and full command arent always worth it. It is an expensive banner that is awesome mainly because mournfang almost always get the charge but with the shear number of dice you are rolling the rerolling ones will not be the deciding factor if you win combat or not. If you dont win combat on the charge without the dragonhide banner then you charged the wrong unit. I would keep the heavy armor, ironfists and musician. If you are really scratching for points a 3 man unit of these work very well too. I have a distorted view on how scary these guys are I think, since my only real regular opponent is a WoC and he runs some seriously horrid combat units that even give the Mournfangs a hard time.

Sabretusk good choice. if you can fit a 3rd they are universally useful.
Sabre tusk

4 LeadBelchers, bellower This unit is much much much better then when i started playing. I usually dont use them as i favor another bigger unit of bulls but these run 2x2 are very effective. Either leave them as is or remove all 8 though. 1 unit of 4 wont do a whole lot but 2 units will be much more effective.
4 LeadBelchers,bellower
I'm a big fan of these guys, and they add an extra bit of versatility to my army I find.

Ironblaster I never leave home without one or 2.
I only own one at the moment, and like you have seen the comp on these is harsh

8 Ironguts, full command, standard of discipline the only thing I would do is add 2 more guts and make a 4x3 unit that keeps your bsb in the second rank because the full command has to be in the front rank

9 ogres full command,iron fists again great unit but I would consider making this an 8man unit and go 3x3.

I like both of these suggestions for the core. Would you suggest putting a character in with the bulls, or leave them as they are? /[color]

[color=red] Where would you recommend all my characters for, do I put them all in the Guts unit to make a big deathstar, or spread the love? Should I run any of them solo? Character placement is something I've been really struggling with in my games so far.

This is a list for a tournament coming up later in the year, but as I'm pretty new to the game I need to get focussing in on learning it's play style, what are people's initial thoughts, feelings about the list? Any changes you would suggest?

Over all this is a good list and just needs some minor changes IMO. One big thing you have to keep in mind is character placement. You really dont want your wizards taking challanges from chaos lords but you also dont want to lose those attacks. So unit champions where you plan on putting your characters are important. I took something VERY similar to adepticon and did fairly well. The only thing that really hurt me was a cron witchstar. Other then that I went 3-2 and the second loss was only by ~200 VP which isnt that bad(still a loss) in a 2400 point game. The a dispel scroll is very important imo because if you are running a gutstar a well casted dwellers can render that unit useless and it will struggle to survive the rest of the game.

Slaughtermaster: Armour of Destiny is a really good shout, if yoy don't want the armour then go Tailsman of Preservation, but he needs the save. Crown of Command is the next thing on his shopping list because sometimes you will loose combat, you need to stay. Period.

Butcher: I'd give him the Hellheart, he doesn't need a save, he has one job and it's not to live

Firebelly: initive potion is usually good for him with a GW because then hes got an I5 breath weapon which is nice, greatweapon is added power! I'd probally loose the butcher to keep the Firebelly though, anything you could give the butcher give to the Firebelly n use butcher points elsewhere imo

Bruiser: Real shame about the RUNE MAW Banner, otherwise yeah IF your not putting armour of Destiny on SM, put it on him with Ironfist and defensively build him

Mournfang: I love a unit of 4, your build gives them a 2+ which they need because the actual mournfang are what you want to fight they have stats disgusting! Dragonhide/Swiftness are the way to go IMO, you don't need the Champion

leadbelchers: small units are great because instead of 6 shooting at 1 target you have 3 on 2 targets or 1, if you can get points musicians are key for them

Ironblaster: you can do fine with just 1, get another for security but double the risk of seeing a misfire? I do fine with just one

General ideas: 3x4 is a bread and butter unit shape, fc in the font and hero's in the second, if you loose the champ to a challenge defensive bsb steps up, if you think you can wreck face get your sm in the fight too, I would run your bsb sm and butcher in the second rank of 1 units of guts, then get fc on the bulls and stick the Firebelly in that unit for punch, fireballs and damage

Just my 2cent

therealsuperman wrote:
Slaughtermaster: Armour of Destiny is a really good shout, if yoy don't want the armour then go Tailsman of Preservation, but he needs the save. Crown of Command is the next thing on his shopping list because sometimes you will loose combat, you need to stay. Period.

Butcher: I'd give him the Hellheart, he doesn't need a save, he has one job and it's not to live

Firebelly: initive potion is usually good for him with a GW because then hes got an I5 breath weapon which is nice, greatweapon is added power! I'd probally loose the butcher to keep the Firebelly though, anything you could give the butcher give to the Firebelly n use butcher points elsewhere imo

Bruiser: Real shame about the RUNE MAW Banner, otherwise yeah IF your not putting armour of Destiny on SM, put it on him with Ironfist and defensively build him

Mournfang: I love a unit of 4, your build gives them a 2+ which they need because the actual mournfang are what you want to fight they have stats disgusting! Dragonhide/Swiftness are the way to go IMO, you don't need the Champion

leadbelchers: small units are great because instead of 6 shooting at 1 target you have 3 on 2 targets or 1, if you can get points musicians are key for them

Ironblaster: you can do fine with just 1, get another for security but double the risk of seeing a misfire? I do fine with just one

General ideas: 3x4 is a bread and butter unit shape, fc in the font and hero's in the second, if you loose the champ to a challenge defensive bsb steps up, if you think you can wreck face get your sm in the fight too, I would run your bsb sm and butcher in the second rank of 1 units of guts, then get fc on the bulls and stick the Firebelly in that unit for punch, fireballs and damage

Just my 2cent

Just had a play trying to put these changes in and it's putting me over the points. So I'm going to have to find where to make some cuts.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Revised list..

Slaughtermaster, 4++, Crown of Command

Butcher, Dispel Scroll

Firebelly, Hellheart

Bruiser, Armour of Destiny, BSB

4 x Mournfang, Musician, Standard bearer, Dragon Hide.

Sabretusk

Sabretusk

Sabretusk

3x Leadbelchers, Musician
3x Leadbelchers, Musician

Ironblaster

9 Ironguts, Full command, Standard of Discipline
8 x Ogres, Full command, Iron fists

This leaves me with 25 points to play with, what do you think?

Ironfist on your bsb and Channeling Staff on your SM and I think it's damn site perfect

therealsuperman wrote:
Ironfist on your bsb and Channeling Staff on your SM and I think it's damn site perfect

the bruiser is better off with heavy armor and enchanted shield. Gives him a 3+ and he has 45 points for the 4++

Also i would advise against putting 3 characters in your irongut unit. Just way too much for a unit that is already too big. I do it as well but its still too big for me. Also why hide the SM???? hes a T5 5W immune to poison who regains wounds by casting as a lvl 4 who's average casting value for most spells in the maw lore is only 7 or so. If Im coming up on some uber chaos lord who is going to drop an ogre or 2 per round of combat, why not take the challange from him with my SM that he has like 3% chance of killing who during the next magic phase will just get most if not all of his wounds back?

If it were me i would still armor up your SM, add an additional irongut, combine the leadbelchers into one unit and put the firebelly in that unit, drop the dragonhide banner and helheart, and if points were needed i would cut a leadbelcher to get those points.

I worked your list out to be 2424pts, could you put the total unit cost per head to help my maths?

therealsuperman wrote:
I worked your list out to be 2424pts, could you put the total unit cost per head to help my maths?

I've just done it with army builder. So unless that is wrong?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Actually looking at it I may have forget the Ironfist upgrade on the bulls.