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A question to those who were able to purchase the new box set. I was interested in maybe picking up Grukk, but I have yet to hear any info on the individual model himself. Is there anything about him, be it statline, equipment, or special rules that make him work using/purchasing? I admit I love his model, but i'd rather not shell out cash for something that will be shelved over traditional Warbosses :(

Imagine a warboss with eavy armour, a PK that has shred, attack squig, and combi Rokkit. Only big difference is that he has a stock 5+ FnP. His general warlord trait is bellowing tyrant. Only things that stand him apart from warbosses is the special klaw and the FnP.

 stompygitz wrote:
Imagine a warboss with eavy armour, a PK that has shred, attack squig, and combi Rokkit. Only big difference is that he has a stock 5+ FnP. His general warlord trait is bellowing tyrant. Only things that stand him apart from warbosses is the special klaw and the FnP.

Point Cost is comparable? If so, he might not be terrible to use in place of a second Warboss.

You essentially pay 10 points for shred on the Power Klaw, a 5+ FNP and always gaining Bellowing Tyrant compared to a Warboss with :


Power Klaw, Kombi Rokkit, Attack Squig, Cybork, Heavy Armour, Bosspole.

 MagicMan wrote:
You essentially pay 10 points for shred on the Power Klaw, a 5+ FNP and always gaining Bellowing Tyrant compared to a Warboss with :


Power Klaw, Kombi Rokkit, Attack Squig, Cybork, Heavy Armour, Bosspole.

He's not too terrible then. Might pick him up after all.

Not to terrible?
Its a steal, even without the not-too-shabby trait.

Honestly, never see a reason to take a regular boss over him when equipped similarly.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Not to terrible?
Its a steal, even without the not-too-shabby trait.

Honestly, never see a reason to take a regular boss over him when equipped similarly.

The only reason I would is if Waaagh! was ever needed with your list, since Grukk doesn't seem to have that.

Melevolence wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
Not to terrible?
Its a steal, even without the not-too-shabby trait.

Honestly, never see a reason to take a regular boss over him when equipped similarly.

The only reason I would is if Waaagh! was ever needed with your list, since Grukk doesn't seem to have that.

He has Waaaagh!

His formation is nice too. The entire formation can Deepstrike, turn 1, no reserve roll required.

Want to bring up a question here, If someone doesn't have the grukk model but wants to use the rules, say the oppounit only has the assaul of black reach warboss, would you feel confortable to let them use it? or demand the correct model to be used?

Considering the only way to have the rules that you can use for Grukk(right now at least) is to have bought Stormclaw, which would mean you should have the model...no I would not let them use the rules without the model.

Especially since the Sanctus Reach book says that if you want to use Grukk Face-Rippa but don't have the Stormclaw rules, just use a generic Warboss armed with a Power Klaw and Kombi Rokkit.

wufai wrote:
Want to bring up a question here, If someone doesn't have the grukk model but wants to use the rules, say the oppounit only has the assaul of black reach warboss, would you feel confortable to let them use it? or demand the correct model to be used?

I'd be fine with it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Considering the only way to have the rules that you can use for Grukk(right now at least) is to have bought Stormclaw

Or to look a total of 7 posts above yours. Those rules are correct, why take issue with them?

 Paradigm wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Considering the only way to have the rules that you can use for Grukk(right now at least) is to have bought Stormclaw

Or to look a total of 7 posts above yours. Those rules are correct, why take issue with them?

So would you let me use rules for a Forge World character based off forum postings?

The rules for Grukk are only in Stormclaw. I don't let people play with pirated codices so why in the world am I going to let them play with rules for Grukk without having the Stormclaw book?

It's not even like Stormclaw was that hard to find in spite of the webstore having sold out. GW stores were sent 20+ copies in addition to however many copies were preordered in the store and independents got as many copies as they ordered (smart money is they might have overordered just so that they could have a good amount of Stormclaws).

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Considering the only way to have the rules that you can use for Grukk(right now at least) is to have bought Stormclaw

Or to look a total of 7 posts above yours. Those rules are correct, why take issue with them?

So would you let me use rules for a Forge World character based off forum postings?

Yes, I would, so long as you could show me the post was backed up by multiple sources, which this thread has for Grukk. Are you telling me you'd expect a player with C:SM to buy the Legion of the Damned codex to use a squad with their Blood Angels when the entirety of the rules that aren't found in C:SM can be summarised in one paragraph? Same with codex: Inquisition if they already have the GK book?

The Stormclaw boxes were also £65, and if someone just wants the one models and doesn't want to go to the hassle of having to resell the rest in an ebay market now flooded with SW and Orks, the cost is unreasonable.

If you want to use something, then buy it.

Don't like it? Don't use it.

Fair enough, that's your call to make. I personally find it a bit odd, but there we go.

If I want to use any of my Forge World stuff, I don't get any leeway.

So why should I give any?

 Kanluwen wrote:
If I want to use any of my Forge World stuff, I don't get any leeway.

So why should I give any?

I think you are being a little harsh there Kan. I'd let you play FW with a print off of the rules

 SilverMK2 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
If I want to use any of my Forge World stuff, I don't get any leeway.

So why should I give any?

I think you are being a little harsh there Kan. I'd let you play FW with a print off of the rules

You're just saying that because it's my birthday, Silver.

It might seem harsh but it's the only way people will learn. There are three people that I know of locally who constantly use pirated material because they're codex hoppers--and I have no interest in allowing them to get away with that nonsense.

 Kanluwen wrote:
You're just saying that because it's my birthday, Silver.

Ah, I forgot about that

In that case I would throw your FW stuff in the bin!

It might seem harsh but it's the only way people will learn. There are three people that I know of locally who constantly use pirated material because they're codex hoppers--and I have no interest in allowing them to get away with that nonsense.

I'd say this is akin to having a PDF of chapter approved in order to play Ork dakkajets back in the day where that was the only place to get the rules.

looool @ this guy ^^^




I think most people would be more than happy for you to use a similarly equipped warboss with the Grukk rules.


Just like noone minds if your Ghazkgull is actually some other warboss in Mega Armour.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Considering the only way to have the rules that you can use for Grukk(right now at least) is to have bought Stormclaw, which would mean you should have the model...no I would not let them use the rules without the model.

Why? It's a Warboss with a Combi-Rokkitt and a fancy Power Claw. Pretty easy conversion. Do you only allow people to use the Official Citadel Miniature for all special characters, never any model someone has decided to make because they prefer their Marneus Calgar/Lucius The Eternal/Aun'Va/Eldrad/Swarmlord to the official one?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Considering the only way to have the rules that you can use for Grukk(right now at least) is to have bought Stormclaw, which would mean you should have the model...no I would not let them use the rules without the model.

Why? It's a Warboss with a Combi-Rokkitt and a fancy Power Claw. Pretty easy conversion. Do you only allow people to use the Official Citadel Miniature for all special characters, never any model someone has decided to make because they prefer their Marneus Calgar/Lucius The Eternal/Aun'Va/Eldrad/Swarmlord to the official one?

If you wanted to field Grukk Face-Rippa as a Warboss with a Kombi-Rokkitt, Power Klaw, and Attack Squig, the way that Sanctus Reach suggests if you do not have the Stormclaw rules?
Fine with that.

The real crux of the issue here H.B.M.C. is that someone is wanting to field the rules without the model--which the only way to do so at the moment is to pirate the rules/copy-paste them off a forum or some other avenue which involves you getting a pretty nice HQ choice without you paying for the rules or buy them off of someone who bought Stormclaw(which if you're doing this, why aren't you just buying Grukk from them as well?)...which is slightly unlikely as the Stormclaw boxed set and the rules contained within are all additions to your Space Wolf or Ork Codex. They might get posted under the FAQs at some point so that people can have the rules(like was done with the Interrogator Chaplain for Dark Angels from the "special edition" Dark Vengeance set), but at the moment it was something you have to pay to get the rules for.

If someone wanted to field the model without the rules? Fine with that. But when you start wanting to use the special rules that came with the set where the model came from, I have a slight issue.

In regards to your other question: No. As long as it's a reasonable conversion(i.e. you can tell pretty quickly what is what just by looking at it), I'm fine and dandy with it. I have a Creed and Kell conversion I'm working on right now since there is no reasonably easy way for me to give the models respirators.
This is kind of a strange case though. I wouldn't mind letting someone field a conversion of a FW model if they had the rules but not the model, etc. It's just in this case the rules and the model are from the same set. There is not really a logical series of events that I can see ending with someone having one but not the other.

 Kanluwen wrote:
The real crux of the issue here H.B.M.C. is that someone is wanting to field the rules without the model--which the only way to do so at the moment is to pirate the rules/copy-paste them off a forum or some other avenue which involves you getting a pretty nice HQ choice without you paying for the rules or buy them off of someone who bought Stormclaw(which if you're doing this, why aren't you just buying Grukk from them as well?)...which is slightly unlikely as the Stormclaw boxed set and the rules contained within are all additions to your Space Wolf or Ork Codex. They might get posted under the FAQs at some point so that people can have the rules(like was done with the Interrogator Chaplain for Dark Angels from the "special edition" Dark Vengeance set), but at the moment it was something you have to pay to get the rules for.

So you're making an argument on morality? What if two people are playing and one person has the rules, and the other person using Orks and they're using Grukk but they don't have Grukk (he made his own version) because their friend who has the rules sold him as he only plays Wolves. Don't use the rules unless you have the specific model to go with them, yet you have the double standard for everything else (you are ok with proxies... just not for those two). That makes no sense.

 Kanluwen wrote:
If someone wanted to field the model without the rules? Fine with that. But when you start wanting to use the special rules that came with the set where the model came from, I have a slight issue.

I don't see why. What's so special about these two models? We're not talking about using Baneblade rules with a cheap M1A1 Abrams kit you found in some modelling store. This is an Ork Warboss (or a Space Wolf guy with a pistol and a fancy axe). And you'll only allow people to use the rules if they have the exact model? That's insane. That's bizarre.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Considering the only way to have the rules that you can use for Grukk(right now at least) is to have bought Stormclaw, which would mean you should have the model...no I would not let them use the rules without the model.

Why? It's a Warboss with a Combi-Rokkitt and a fancy Power Claw. Pretty easy conversion. Do you only allow people to use the Official Citadel Miniature for all special characters, never any model someone has decided to make because they prefer their Marneus Calgar/Lucius The Eternal/Aun'Va/Eldrad/Swarmlord to the official one?

If you wanted to field Grukk Face-Rippa as a Warboss with a Kombi-Rokkitt, Power Klaw, and Attack Squig, the way that Sanctus Reach suggests if you do not have the Stormclaw rules?
Fine with that.

The real crux of the issue here H.B.M.C. is that someone is wanting to field the rules without the model--which the only way to do so at the moment is to pirate the rules/copy-paste them off a forum or some other avenue which involves you getting a pretty nice HQ choice without you paying for the rules or buy them off of someone who bought Stormclaw(which if you're doing this, why aren't you just buying Grukk from them as well?)...which is slightly unlikely as the Stormclaw boxed set and the rules contained within are all additions to your Space Wolf or Ork Codex. They might get posted under the FAQs at some point so that people can have the rules(like was done with the Interrogator Chaplain for Dark Angels from the "special edition" Dark Vengeance set), but at the moment it was something you have to pay to get the rules for.

Alot of assumptions in this post, lol.

Theres nothing weird about someone getting the Sanctus Reach booklet off ebay without wanting the entire set.




I'd want to see a reciept for all of your models before i played you. Incase you'd molded them out of clay and oven baked your own models. Can't be too careful. Arrrrr piracy its a crime.

Yeah. I mean what if someone doesn't like the Grukk model and wants to make their own? What if they're doing a 'Counts As' Orks army and using Skaven/Warhammer Orcs/Mantic Orx/My Little Ponies?

Nope! Gotto have that Official™ Citadel™ Miniature™!!!

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Yeah. I mean what if someone doesn't like the Grukk model and wants to make their own? What if they're doing a 'Counts As' Orks army and using Skaven/Warhammer Orcs/Mantic Orx/My Little Ponies?

Nope! Gotto have that Official™ Citadel™ Miniature™!!!

Yeah, let's just pretend that is what I said.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MagicMan wrote:

Alot of assumptions in this post, lol.

Theres nothing weird about someone getting the Sanctus Reach booklet off ebay without wanting the entire set.

Why in the world would anyone want the Sanctus Reach booklet by itself?

 Kanluwen wrote:

 MagicMan wrote:

Alot of assumptions in this post, lol.

Theres nothing weird about someone getting the Sanctus Reach booklet off ebay without wanting the entire set.

Why in the world would anyone want the Sanctus Reach booklet by itself?

If they already have the models and just want the missions and formations? If I recall, several people in the N&R thread were saying just that.

Genuine question: Do you really think it would detract from your enjoyment of the game if the opponent used the rules for Grukk/Krom without having them there in front of them?

Detracting from "my enjoyment of the game" is something different to what I'm discussing though.

If someone is going to whine and moan that I don't have my huge book with me so that I can run my Vulture Gunship or Scanners(you know, those little pylons?) for my IG?

Then they can shell out the money, buy the damn Stormclaw set and get over it. It's not like that box was a hugely expensive thing and it REALLY is not that hard to get a copy. From Saturday to Sunday, I watched barely 12 of the 24 sets sell out. Most of them were duplicate sales and people talking about how "they only wanted the mini rulebook but were going to eBay everything else".

 Kanluwen wrote:
Detracting from "my enjoyment of the game" is something different to what I'm discussing though.

If someone is going to whine and moan that I don't have my huge book with me so that I can run my Vulture Gunship or Scanners(you know, those little pylons?) for my IG?

So it's just a personal thing. Ok, I don't agree with that (just because some people stop you from having fun with some stuff, I don't see that as a reason to stop them from the same. If you were more willing to grant them concessions, they might be easier letting you use FW), but it's your choice.

And for the record, I think the people denying you FW are being unreasonable.