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Ok so the whole formations / detachments is a little Confusing to me....

Here is the issue im having trouble understanding .

So lets say I take the Ork stormclaw formation.... Can I add units/equip them as i want(as long as i meet the requirements)? Like add more boyz and/or a big mek? Or must I start a new detachment to add additional units?

I am not familiar with the Ork Stormclaw formation, but to answer your question...Yes, you can modify the units of a formation within the parameters of the units PROVIDED the formation does not specify otherwise.

A good example are two formations from the Tyranid Rising Leviathan I dataslate. There are two Genestealer formations. The Manufactorum Genestealers, which has five units of Genestealers, and the specific rule that no other models may be added to the units, so they are only the base five models, but I can add talons, glands, etc.. The Broodlord's Hunting Pack has three (IIRC) units of Genestealers, only one of which can have a Broodlord. For the hunting pack, there is no restriction on models, so I can boost those three with additional Genestealers and modifications, but I cannot take additional Broodlords.

I believe, but cannot confirm, that the same would apply for dedicated transports as well. If a formation had, for example, a single SM tactical squad, and no rule specifying otherwise, I believe the unit should be fine taking a Rhino as a transport, even though the formation does not SPECIFICALLY state that the unit has a Rhino.

Adding more boyz, meks, whathaveyou, is NOT allowed however. For that, you would need to start another detachment/formation.

Hope that helps.

Lynkon_Lawg wrote:
I am not familiar with the Ork Stormclaw formation, but to answer your question...Yes, you can modify the units of a formation within the parameters of the units PROVIDED the formation does not specify otherwise.

A good example are two formations from the Tyranid Rising Leviathan I dataslate. There are two Genestealer formations. The Manufactorum Genestealers, which has five units of Genestealers, and the specific rule that no other models may be added to the units, so they are only the base five models, but I can add talons, glands, etc.. The Broodlord's Hunting Pack has three (IIRC) units of Genestealers, only one of which can have a Broodlord. For the hunting pack, there is no restriction on models, so I can boost those three with additional Genestealers and modifications, but I cannot take additional Broodlords.

I believe, but cannot confirm, that the same would apply for dedicated transports as well. If a formation had, for example, a single SM tactical squad, and no rule specifying otherwise, I believe the unit should be fine taking a Rhino as a transport, even though the formation does not SPECIFICALLY state that the unit has a Rhino.

Adding more boyz, meks, whathaveyou, is NOT allowed however. For that, you would need to start another detachment/formation.

Hope that helps.

Ok..so i could equip them as i want? But im not allowed to add new units to the same detachment as the stormclaw orks? thats all i needed to know

Difficult one this. I think if it specifies what weapons they have (Like Grukk or the Killer cans) you have to take what they have.

Where it doesn't say for instance a unit of boys, I would assume you can build it as you like (size, weapons etc..)

Ork Stormclaw-formation? Are you perhaps talking about the "Da Vulcha Skwad"?
Where did you find this Formation?

That is a special Detachment called a Formation.
The Formation tells you what is Mandatory and what is optional.
You don't have any optional units, so it must include exactly what is listed there.

That does not prevent you from upgrading the models with their own options.

Yea mipevo6 has it right.

if it specifies their wargear/loadout/options etc then that's what you have to take.

Unless you are playing unbound the only way you can add more units is if you start another detachment or add another formation.

Question related to this: If I have the Combined Arms detachment, and I have that ork warband detachment, do the gretchin and the boy squads included in the detachment have Objective Secured?

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
Question related to this: If I have the Combined Arms detachment, and I have that ork warband detachment, do the gretchin and the boy squads included in the detachment have Objective Secured?

No.
Objective Secured clearly tells you that it only applies to the same Detachment.

I think this is a great summary:

So sum up:
Army - Everything you put on the table.
Faction - All choices from a codex and all supplements to that codex. Codex Orks, Waaagh! Ghazghkull and The Red Waaagh! all are of the faction "orks". No matter how you get a unit it will always be of the faction of its parent codex.
Detachment - A part of your army that allows you to freely pick a limited number of choices from the different battle roles, usually requiring a minimum of certain battle roles (for example, 1 HQ 2 troops).
Formation - A part of your army that exactly tells you what units you have to pick.
Primary detachment - The detachment or formation that contains your warlord.

As a sidenote I would like to add that Formations are Detachments, but a special kind that can also be taken in Unbound-Armies.

So for example, if I have a Living artillery node as part of my Primary Detachment the Warrior Brood in that formation won't count towards the troops total for that detachment?

 mekugi wrote:
So for example, if I have a Living artillery node as part of my Primary Detachment the Warrior Brood in that formation won't count towards the troops total for that detachment?

That depends.. The Living artillery node itself could be your Primary Detachment
That's because a Formation is a Detachment.

Imagine you are playing this:
-The Living Artillery Detachment
-Combined Arms Detachment

A Warrior Brood either belongs to the first or to the second Detachment, not both.
Then you select a Warlord, this must be a Character unless stated otherwise.
The Detachment that contains your Warlord is now your Primary Detachment.

 mekugi wrote:
So for example, if I have a Living artillery node as part of my Primary Detachment the Warrior Brood in that formation won't count towards the troops total for that detachment?

I'm not familiar with the Living artillery node, but if it is a formation, then the Warrior Brood is part of that detachment. A formation is a detachment, and it can be your Primary Detachment, but remember that a formation is NOT a "Combined Arms Detachment", so the formation does not have a "troops total". A Combined Arms Detachment is a type of detachment, an Allied Detachment is a type of detachment, a Formation is a type of detachment....but a Formation is NOT a Combined Arms Detachment; a Formation is NOT a Allied Detachment, and a Combined Arms Detachment is NOT an Allied Detachment. There are other detachments as well....such the new ork horde-thingy detachment...it is neither a Combined Arms, Allied, or Formation...but they are all detachments.

Make sense?

Lynkon_Lawg wrote:

I'm not familiar with the Living artillery node, but if it is a formation, then the Warrior Brood is part of that detachment. A formation is a detachment, and it can be your Primary Detachment, but remember that a formation is NOT a "Combined Arms Detachment", so the formation does not have a "troops total". A Combined Arms Detachment is a type of detachment, an Allied Detachment is a type of detachment, a Formation is a type of detachment....but a Formation is NOT a Combined Arms Detachment; a Formation is NOT a Allied Detachment, and a Combined Arms Detachment is NOT an Allied Detachment. There are other detachments as well....such the new ork horde-thingy detachment...it is neither a Combined Arms, Allied, or Formation...but they are all detachments.

Make sense?

Yeah I think I've got it...The warriors can't belong to two detachments...Even when the formation is run inside the bounds of a Primary Combined Arms detachment. It's a pity, because I had a sweet list for an upcoming 1250pt tourny just how I liked it till I realised I was 1 troops choice short. >_<

That's like saying an Allied Detachment is inside the bounds of a Combined Arms Detachment

But how is it a pity?
An Army requires you to go Unbound or take a Detachment (or more).
You can take a single Formation, select a Warlord from it and make it your Primary Detachment.

Since the Formation is quite cheap, the best option would be to:
Take Living Artillery Node.
Take another Formation or a CAD to fill up the points.

 mekugi wrote:

Lynkon_Lawg wrote:

I'm not familiar with the Living artillery node, but if it is a formation, then the Warrior Brood is part of that detachment. A formation is a detachment, and it can be your Primary Detachment, but remember that a formation is NOT a "Combined Arms Detachment", so the formation does not have a "troops total". A Combined Arms Detachment is a type of detachment, an Allied Detachment is a type of detachment, a Formation is a type of detachment....but a Formation is NOT a Combined Arms Detachment; a Formation is NOT a Allied Detachment, and a Combined Arms Detachment is NOT an Allied Detachment. There are other detachments as well....such the new ork horde-thingy detachment...it is neither a Combined Arms, Allied, or Formation...but they are all detachments.

Make sense?

Yeah I think I've got it...The warriors can't belong to two detachments...Even when the formation is run inside the bounds of a Primary Combined Arms detachment. It's a pity, because I had a sweet list for an upcoming 1250pt tourny just how I liked it till I realised I was 1 troops choice short. >_<

I think you are still misunderstanding how it works. The Formation detachment is not within the Combined Arms detachment. They are two seperate detachments in the same army. I'm going to use two detachments I know for the example. Manufactorum Genestealers formation has five genestealer broods in it. I can take that formation (technically 5 troops) AND IN THE SAME ARMY take a Combined Arms detachment with a Hive Tyrant (1 HQ) and two Genestealer broods (2 Troops). Based on your statement, this would be 7 troops and break the Combined Arms detachment, but the parameters of each detachment has no effect on any other detachment. The Manufactorum Genestealers broods will get their special rules (I believe hit and run and infiltration within 6" of enemies inside of buildings/ruins), but they do not get Objective Secured. The Genestealers in the Combined Arms detachment get Objective Secured, but do not get the formation special rules. The rules state that you can take any number of detachments up to the points list of your game, however your FLGS may have different rules for games or tournaments. My FLGS just held a 1500pt. tournament with the stipulation that you may take one Combined Arms, one Allied, and one Formation. I didn't go so, so I never got to ask how that effects Inquisition or Imperial Knight detachments as they are none of the above.

Oh ok. The tourny rules state I can only take 1 Combined Arms Detachment...So no Living Artillery Node for me. >_<
Not to worry, the rerolls to hit/scatter are pretty damned useful I should be able to cope...At least I'll be able to take my optimal loadout.

I'm still getting my head around the detachments and formations lark. Would the following be a legal Battle Forged list by the rule book.

CAD - Sisters of Battle - (Normal Force Org)

Allied Detachment (part of CAD)
Blood Angels (Allied detachment force org)

Space Wolves Formation as per the Stormclaw box set

Inquisitorial detachment.

Imperial Knight detachment.

Obviously this would be a boat load of points but is it Battle Forged legal?

D

 evildrcheese wrote:
I'm still getting my head around the detachments and formations lark. Would the following be a legal Battle Forged list by the rule book.

CAD - Sisters of Battle - (Normal Force Org)

Allied Detachment (part of CAD)
Blood Angels (Allied detachment force org)

Space Wolves Formation as per the Stormclaw box set

Inquisitorial detachment.

Imperial Knight detachment.

Obviously this would be a boat load of points but is it Battle Forged legal?

D

Forget the words "Force Org". In essence, you've got it and are fine but what you I think you are trying to say is this...

Sisters of Battle - Combined Arms Detachment - Primary Detachment

Blood Angels - Allied Detachment

Stormclaw - Formation

Imperial Knight Detachment

Inquisitorial Detachment

Keep in mind...the Combined Arms Detachment DOES NOT dictate the PRIMARY DETACHMENT. The Stormclaw can be the Primary, or the Inquisitorial can be, or the Imperial Knights can be....you just have to pick your Warlord from that detachment.