Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

1st post!
Quick story, then I would appreciate some advice.
I am new to 40k. I just bought my first 40k models. I went with Tau, and bought Pathfinders and a unit of Crisis suits. I know these are not troops choices, but I really wanted to get units I was excited about for my first purchases rather than troops.
my brother and I have split these units into 2 team (2 crisis suits & base pathfinders vs 1 crisis suit & pathfinders with all upgrades) to learn the rules, and experiment with crisis suit load outs.

after having a lot of fun with just these few models over a few games, we decided to start building up two armies to face each other: Tau and Orks.
We found a good deal online for the Orks from the sanctus reach pack, and they are now on the way. My plan was to add a unit of fire warriors and an ethereal to the tau force. Now, this battle would be:
5 nobz, 3 Killa Kanz, 10 Gretchin, and an HQ
vs
10 pathfinders, 12 fire warriors, 3 crisis suits, and an HQ
+drones

Now for the question. Is this a fair fight? I ask because it doesn't sound like one. It sounds like the tau will destroy the orks in this case. If i am right about that, what should we do differently (given the purchases i already mentioned) to make for a good, fair small game? Or will keeping the points even be enough to make this a fair fight? Remember, we are NOT competitive about this, and it would be nice if we could use these 2 forces to get friends into the game, so balance here is key. In other words, we don't want an arms race to last a decade. we just want a good game now.

The main problem going on is that the tau list is a tight, well-rounded list that covers all its bases and the ork list really, really isn't.

It's going to be sort of difficult to make the tau list all that much weaker, honestly, as there isn't all that much in the tau codex that's going to be straight bad against most ork units. I think you'd be better off bulking up the orks a bit.

Like giving him a real troops selection. A couple boxes of boyz and maybe a battlewagon, or something. Not counting the gretching (which really, scarcely count here), you outnumber your ork opponent three to one, which really, REALLY shouldn't be the case ork vs. tau.

The only way this to fix this easily would be to try and get some elite units in there. A bunch of bikes, perhaps, or some mega-armored nobz who won't care quite so much about small arms fire.

Also, out of curiosity, what do the points look like? Yes, points don't balance, but it looks at first glance like the tau army has more points worth of stuff in it.

if i assume 75 per crisis suit and basic 10 pathfinders, I get to 493ish points for the tau.
I have a hard time calculating for the orks because they have a lot of options that sound like must-takes ('eavy armor, waaah banner, Boss pole.), or useless (Armor for kans).
I am sure you could get these orks to near 500, but spending a lot on worthless stuff. yes you are right: the orks are closer to 400. maybe less.
So you think adding 10-20 boyz could balance the odds? Also, how would you configure the killa kans to deal with this tau list?

I'd recommend playing with that list - minus the drones - to further learn the rules and understand how gaps in an army build can affect you. Best to get tabled whilst learning the rules & laughing rather than after spending a small fortune.

As a new player, I strongly recommend follow mission set up and terrain guidelines. It's a good habit to get into (i.e. random missions after army building can change tactics before a model is placed). The Tau have Str 5 firepower all over the shop and this will whittle down any troops without plenty of LOS blocking cover.

So yes, the Orks should lose here but at least you have a good attitude to playing. AilarosMade has given good advice on what else to consider.

USPartySquadron wrote:
Also, how would you configure the killa kans to deal with this tau list?

The Crisis team + HQ (if you make one the Commander; which my brother does at the moment from the battle box) will have minimum 3+ save and 2 wounds each. HQ guy should take the 2+ save +1 toughness. Which means you need either a lot of firepower (or Dakka, in this case) for the math to be on the greenskin side or some str 8 weapons (melta/plasma equivalent). At the point level you're playing at (400-500) you have a great opportunity to play several games a session on a 4x4 board and tinker the army list along the way. Try giving the Orks loads of extras to bring the points up, then play with minimum extras. There can be a disparity between what something reads like on the page and what it actually does on the battlefield.

USPartySquadron wrote:
So you think adding 10-20 boyz could balance the odds? Also, how would you configure the killa kans to deal with this tau list?

Seeing the difference between a unit size of 10 and 20 is useful. The Ork army should have a 'blob' unit to show the practicality of more troops = more dice.

Either way, enjoy.

Go with a battlewagon or some bikes, something to give him some mobility or cover. What is the actual points list? The Tau do seem to outnumber the Orkz.

Part of the problem here is something a new player wouldn't necessarily notice, as well.

Tau are traditionally weak in close combat, but it's a Mary Sue fake-weakness because their opponents never actually make it into assault. This is especially true with what the ork player is bringing.

Yes, if the ork player threatens close combat, you can always swat it away with your crisis suits, but at the moment there isn't even the serious threat. It's nobz on foot. It's Kanz which are dangerously susceptible to tau small arms fire.

If you can arrange for the ork player to get some actual speed to his list, then it might be possible, or else a friggin gigantic pile of bodies (it might be possible to drown out a tau player with shootas at this points level), but otherwise the ork list is basically playing exactly into tau strengths.

 jreilly89 wrote:
What is the actual points list?

Again, total noob question here. When you are asking that, are you asking what do the units cost barebones, what could they potentially cost, or how many points in the specific list for a given game? We have no answer to the last one. Do you take the 4+ armor? That seems like a yes for all the S5 AP5. but the other upgrades? I'm not sure. We just bought the models that came together as a deal.

Thanks for the help and ideas. I can't wait for a non tau vs tau fight. assaults are... rather uninteresting at this point.

We're assuming actual cost.

Of course, this is complicated somewhat by the fact that you didn't list what exact wargear and weapons they were taking, so we're forced to more or less guess what they have. Odds are pretty good that the crisis suits will have two special weapons, for example, but without knowing which, it's hard to say.

I haven't glued any weapons on the crisis suits yet. I like the sound of missile pods, but the box only gives me 3 of them. I suppose I could go with only flamers or something to gimp them but that wouldn't feel right.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
How much is Grukk Face-rippa in points? I don't see him in the codex.

USPartySquadron wrote:
I haven't glued any weapons on the crisis suits yet. I like the sound of missile pods, but the box only gives me 3 of them. I suppose I could go with only flamers or something to gimp them but that wouldn't feel right.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
How much is Grukk Face-rippa in points? I don't see him in the codex.

I wouldn't gimp them, but just realize for points cost Orkz may need to take more mobile units or bodies vs. Tau to make a fair game. Also, Grukk Face-rippa isn't in the codex,he's a special unit who came in Stormclaw. You shopuld be able to download his rules online, otherwise run him as a regular warboss.

You could both flesh out the armies with some proxies, be it paper craft, legos or whatever you can make work.

A pair of lists could go something like this:
ork HQ = 60, + 4 + ~10 for an upgrade = 74
gretchen = 35
5 nobz w/ eavy armor = 110, + 25 for combi weapons = 135
3 killa kanz = 150, + 15 for guns = 165
= 409
vs
3 crisis suits = 66, + 6x15pt weapons (not sure which) + 15x3 for feel no pain = 201
6 pathfinders without upgrades = 66
10 fire warriors = 90
ethereal = 50
= 405
that seems to be the most points the orks can practically use in that list, so I just reduced tau infantry to compensate. still doesn't sound very fair.
Anyway, again thanks for the tips. we tried the proxy idea and it just feels wrong. we will just keep it small for now.

USPartySquadron wrote:
A pair of lists could go something like this:
ork HQ = 60, + 4 + ~10 for an upgrade = 74
gretchen = 35
5 nobz w/ eavy armor = 110, + 25 for combi weapons = 135
3 killa kanz = 150, + 15 for guns = 165
= 409
vs
3 crisis suits = 66, + 6x15pt weapons (not sure which) + 15x3 for feel no pain = 201
6 pathfinders without upgrades = 66
10 fire warriors = 90
ethereal = 50
= 405
that seems to be the most points the orks can practically use in that list, so I just reduced tau infantry to compensate. still doesn't sound very fair.
Anyway, again thanks for the tips. we tried the proxy idea and it just feels wrong. we will just keep it small for now.

Well, start by playing and learning. Maybe even take turns switching Tau and Orkz either way, good luck! Let us know how it goes for you guys!