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Hey all,

I recently sold off my Cryx (I bought them years ago as a power gamer because they were stupid good) but I just don't like the look of the models or the playstyle all that much. Plus I want to field a colossal but I HATE the look of the kraken.

That said I love the look of Ret & being a Dark Eldar 40k player the battle college about synergy & board control really appealed to me.

Miniature market currently has thier 40% off sale going on so what should I pick up to get a good start on an army? I'm looking to drop between 100 & 150. Eventually I plan on getting a Hyperion & Arcantrik force generator so things that would go well with them would be great.

I've heard houseguard halberds in front of rifles can be good because of ranked attack but if someone could give me a good list to start I'd appreciate it.


Currently I'm looking at :

Judging from what's instock I'm looking at:

Battlebox

Houseguard Rifles + UA

Houseguard Thane

Mage Hunter Strike Force

Magehunter Commander

Rayn

Magister

Heavy Rifle Team

Does this look OK for a start? I'd like halberd but they're out of stock. I was debating changing out the strike force for infiltrators as I like those models & it would give me a better melee unit.

Yeah looks like a decent start - tbh its hard to go wrong with the Battlebox + a Strike Force to start off with. The main thing I guess is to work out which caster you want to use because it obviously effects what you should get. You have 'Rayn' in the list above which I'm guessing is supposed to be Ravyn? That would make sense given the amount of shooty stuff you have listed, I would consider adding Stormfalls, Invictors and Mage Hunter Assassins if she is the caster you want to try first. Halberdiers would be my first choice if you want a melee unit.

As a general rule avoid Destors (the unit, the Destor Thane solo is good though), the Dawnguard Scyir (less than stellar jack marshall), Nayl (he is as problematic for you as your opponent) and the Heavy Rifle Team (its probably our worst unit) and you should do fine. All our other infantry units are good and you pretty much always want the UA - our units are all well above average because we tend to get less buffs than other factions, so its mostly just a case of picking units that work well with your list/caster and general play style.

HRT is bad? To me if I give it snipe it could be great I mean POW 7 is low but armor pircing means I'm looking at dice -2 or 3 on heavy jacks

HRT is situational. You can't move and fire, though you can get away with telekinesis and whatnot. He's sqishy and, while decent with damage, is not really worth the points.

I find with Ret there aren't any really BAD units, but most are situational and support dependent.

Yep its by far the worst of the Light Artillery pieces across all the factions, and Ret has far better options for cracking armour and far better 2pt solo options in general. Against an ARM18 jack you average 5pts of damage, which is decent for a 2pt solo, but that ignores a number of downsides the HRT has. First of all it can't move and fire and can't boost like most other Light Artillery, which make it very possible it can miss and is a very static piece in a largely mobile army. While you can in theory put Snipe on it it is always going to be the last unit in your army you put it on because its only buffing a single model vs 10 for a unit of Strike Force/Riflemen/Invictors - I would even consider putting it on Ravyn before I put it on the Rifle Team.

Probably the main reason it isn't used is that Stormfall Archers can do the same thing much more effectively, while also covering additional roles at the same time. Stormfalls are 5pts and against the same target with Brutal Shots they average 2 damage per model, so the unit is averaging 10 damage a turn - which purely in terms of points cost sounds ok - 2 HRT average the same damage as 1 unit of Stormfalls for slightly less points. However the Stormfalls are much more flexible, they are AOEs so threaten infantry as well, they can move and shoot, have better range with Snipe (and being able to move increases the threat range as well) and can set things on Fire (which is more helpful against Shield walls than trying to shoot them to death). They also have a major advantage in that they have 4 shots rather than one, which means a) you are more likely to hit, which means you should always be doing at least some damage and b) you have a much higher potential damage output. A pair of HRTs can spike and at best will do 20 damage in this scenario, a single Stormfall spiking will do 12 damage, and in the insanely unlikely case where all 4 of them roll max damage you are lookin at 48 damage. Obviously this isn't something you rely on, but when you have two units which have similar damage output but one has a much higher maximum potential damage then that can tip the scales.

Even if you can't find the points to get the Stormfalls you have better options at 2pts. A Mage Hunter Assassin that hits an ARM18 jack is going to do 10 damage on average, and can do 30 damage if you roll nothing but 6's. It also threatens the same distance (which is pretty crazy when you think about it) and ignores any buffs on a target, which is even more of a factor because ranged defensive buffs are much easily to get than melee ones (Elevation, Forests, Walls + a large number of ranged specific defensive buffs vs Walls and a very small number of melee specific defensive buffs). Even a Ghost Sniper is a viable choice for heavy ARM hunting over the HRT - it can move and fire, will last longer because it has Stealth, will hit more often, can choose where the damage goes and always does 3 - which is only 1 less than the HRT averages.

Cool thanks. I'm keeping them in my cart anyway mainly because I like the idea of a sniper army (2 ghost snipers 2 Heavy Rifles). I know WM/H isn't a shooting game but it's more to have the option to field a cool fluff army.

I'm not the most competitive player and I think it might be cool to see an army of snipers & rifles behind halberds, like a houseguard militia whose town just got attacked & are holding out for the dawnguard to arrive.

Powerguy wrote:
Yep its by far the worst of the Light Artillery pieces across all the factions

Rhul artillery begs to differ.

 Shas'O Dorian wrote:
Cool thanks. I'm keeping them in my cart anyway mainly because I like the idea of a sniper army (2 ghost snipers 2 Heavy Rifles). I know WM/H isn't a shooting game but it's more to have the option to field a cool fluff army.

I'm not the most competitive player and I think it might be cool to see an army of snipers & rifles behind halberds, like a houseguard militia whose town just got attacked & are holding out for the dawnguard to arrive.

Honestly, I've seen some very cool scenarios that focus around attack/defend that make great use of artillery in general. If you like more narrative play (which is always good for a change of pace) you might consider it.

 Shas'O Dorian wrote:
HRT is bad? To me if I give it snipe it could be great I mean POW 7 is low but armor pircing means I'm looking at dice -2 or 3 on heavy jacks

It's not that they are bad, it's that there are better options at the same point value and that the role the HRT tend to be put in happen to be the same as a Ghost Sniper who's slightly more versatile.