Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I know it's a long way off, but then again, with the fast release schedule GW has been doing, who knows? Maybe early next year we could see 7th edition necrons. My problem, is I don't know what to expect. I feel we could either become the next Eldar, or they'll nerf everything good we had and we'll become the next Tyranids. I don't see much of a middle ground, honestly. Plus, I don't want to fathom what they'll take away, or what they'll screw up. But who knows?

I just mainly want to know what people actually WANT from the new codex, as well as what you EXPECT out of it, with the trend of things and such.

For me...

Hopes:

Flayed Ones becoming useful
Lychguard either getting cheaper or better in some way
Triarch Praetorians being actually good
The C'tan being more usable
Vehicle upgrades. Or gawd yes (Granted, this one will probably happen anyway, since it has for everyone)
Points for wargear being severely overhauled
Tesla being given Ignore Cover (Dunno why, but if they give us some newer rules, I feel Tesla would be the best decision to be Ignores Cover, just makes sense to me)
Gauss going back to it's old rule of also always wounding on a 6+ as well
Tomb Blades being usable
Destroyers getting cheaper
Living Metal doing something a bit more. It always struck me wrong what it actually does, since it does something completely different in fluff.
Zandrahk getting a few extra rules he can pass out and/or take away. Like, Monster Hunter, Ignores Cover, maybe Skyfire


Expectations:

Tesla being nerfed. A lot of people have said that maybe while Snap Firing, Tesla won't grant additional shots, or only gets one additional instead of two. Honestly, makes sense, and I'd be okay with it. It is very powerful.
Catacomb Command Barge being nerfed. I mean come on, it's silly good right now, it could use a tone-down.
A-barges getting a raise in price. They are silly cheap, for reals.



Just a few things that Ican think of at the moment. Like I said, not sure whether to be excited or not. What do you guys think? What are you expecting and/or hoping for with the new Necron codex? For all we know, we could be seeing it come February/March of next year.

Necrons are still mid-top tier with their current codex, so do they really need a new one?

 Random Dude wrote:
Necrons are still mid-top tier with their current codex, so do they really need a new one?

Well, fair enough. But there are a lot of points changes that need to be attended to, and if they're so powerful right now, then obviously GW is going to nerf some things and make some things better just to sell models, right?

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Random Dude wrote:
Necrons are still mid-top tier with their current codex, so do they really need a new one?

Well, fair enough. But there are a lot of points changes that need to be attended to, and if they're so powerful right now, then obviously GW is going to nerf some things and make some things better just to sell models, right?

That's the one thing that angers me most about GW. They really should separate game design from marketing.

 Random Dude wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Random Dude wrote:
Necrons are still mid-top tier with their current codex, so do they really need a new one?

Well, fair enough. But there are a lot of points changes that need to be attended to, and if they're so powerful right now, then obviously GW is going to nerf some things and make some things better just to sell models, right?

That's the one thing that angers me most about GW. They really should separate game design from marketing.

Well, part of me can't blame them, the other part of me is not looking forward to the next awesome "must-have" unit that's gonna cost 80+ dollars. That's why I haven't gotten a Hive Crone yet, and I bought an Exocrine used on eBay.

Fluff re-retconned to actual TruCron fluff.

- No Matt Ward.
- C'tan seeing a huge price reduction or power buff.
- Wraiths seeing a slight cost upgrade.
- LG removed, Pahrias reintroduced
- Sentry Pylons losing Skyfire and Interceptor with appropriate point reduction
- Monolith gains DS protection and the WBB re-rolls again
- Destroyers -10 pts, Heavy Destroyers -10 pts
- Living Metal back to Living Metal. ~30 pts increase for all vehicles.
- Matt Ward being kept away from the codex with an extremely long stick. A sharp one, preferably.
- Seriously, hire the guys that wrote Fall of Orpheus. They know how to write stuff.

In short...back to 3rd codex. Reboot. Modernize it.

Hmm, let's see.

- Gauntlets of Fire gain Rending
- Warscythe maybe up to 15pts (not sure how to price this really - its superior to our other items, but also stuck on a WS4 model with 3 attacks and I2)
- Voidblade either a free swap or gains something useful
- Phylactery gives you a bonus on your RP roll.
- Overlords WS5 (I can dream...)
- Necron Lords pay less for gear than Overlords (NOTE: I think this should apply to sergeants from all races)
- SCs revamped so that they're actually worth a damn
- Annihilation Barge, Ghost Ark and Nightscythe all get more expensive
- Flayed Ones become troops... and get something to make them useful
- Lychguard stop being inferior terminators (What's that? You'd like an invulnerable save so that you might actually make it across the field? Well then you're only allowed S5 AP3 weapons. That's what you get for not being marines).
- Triarch Praetorians stop being 40pts for 1 sodding attack (and WS4... yey for 80pts per hit).
- Necron Infantry Armies become viable (as opposed to being laughing stocks, compared to AV13 spam.)
- Destroyers either get a price reduction, or get their old guns back. Also, they're each fused to a sodding jetbike, so make them jetbikes again.

- It would be nice if Tesla weapons (other than the Destructor) had a bit more going for them. The changes to rapid-fire have left them being basically inferior - worse AP, can't touch most vehicles and can't double-tap at close range.

- What do people think of the current Gauss rules? I think someone suggested a while ago that it should be replaced with Rending. So, it's more dangerous against infantry, but its anti-vehicle capability is dependant on weapon strength and the rending roll (and so e.g. you might have to use Storm Crypteks for tougher vehicles, rather than being able to rely on warriors). I think it's an interesting idea, but I'm wondering if it would make us too strong. Any thoughts?

 Sigvatr wrote:


Fluff re-retconned to actual TruCron fluff.

- No Matt Ward.

- Matt Ward being kept away from the codex with an extremely long stick. A sharp one, preferably.


In short...back to 3rd codex. Reboot. Modernize it.

give me these and I'll be a happy man, have an exalt Sigvatr

other than the above
- Flayed Ones that are useful, or at least sculpts that don't look like complete gak would suffice
- increase the points of the Annihilation Barge & both transports
- give Destroyers (both variants) a little love
- Triarch Pretorians, give them a use or give them the chop

Well I can guarantee you they're not going to retcon the fluff. Odds are most of it will be copy n' paste.

Things I'd reasonably expect to see would be a nerf to Mindshackle Scarabs, a buff to either Praetorians, Lychgard, or Flayed Ones. I think they'll definitely leave one of those in the dust at best (a la Howling Banshees).

I sincerely doubt they will change Tesla rules. IMO, Tesla will remain the same. Necrons lack a reliable high strength firing option, so all the mid-level stuff will likely remain as is.

Monoliths will hopefully gain some buffs, but I wouldn't be on it - it's a decent size kit that they could do well to sell more of - as well as being incredibly iconic to the army.

New models. This one's a bit more difficult to predict. It's hard to imagine a walker - but there could be a new C'tan or larger canoptek item in the mix. I suppose canoptek would be the path to a walker design wise. I'd also expect a new independent character, and a dual-kit anti-aircraft/artillery model.

I don't expect any big changes to the basics like Gauss, Tesla, RP, QS, etc.

I'm hoping they DON'T get a new codex any time soon.

 Thokt wrote:
Things I'd reasonably expect to see would be a nerf to Mindshackle Scarabs

What sort of nerf are you expecting?

I ask because I've often considered how to make this item more reasonable, but haven't been able to think of any nerfs that don't make it completely worthless.

 Thokt wrote:

I don't expect any big changes to the basics like Gauss, Tesla, RP, QS, etc.

Do Tesla and QS really count as the 'basics'? I mean, they've only existed since this book.

 vipoid wrote:
Hmm, let's see.

- Gauntlets of Fire gain Rending
- Warscythe maybe up to 15pts (not sure how to price this really - its superior to our other items, but also stuck on a WS4 model with 3 attacks and I2)
- Voidblade either a free swap or gains something useful
- Phylactery gives you a bonus on your RP roll.
- Overlords WS5 (I can dream...)
- Necron Lords pay less for gear than Overlords (NOTE: I think this should apply to sergeants from all races)
- Lychguard stop being inferior terminators (What's that? You'd like an invulnerable save so that you might actually make it across the field? Well then you're only allowed S5 AP3 weapons. That's what you get for not being marines).
- Triarch Praetorians stop being 40pts for 1 sodding attack (and WS4... yey for 80pts per hit).
- Destroyers either get a price reduction, or get their old guns back. Also, they're each fused to a sodding jetbike, so make them jetbikes again.

Omg, all of the yes. All of this needs to happen.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Thokt wrote:

I sincerely doubt they will change Tesla rules. IMO, Tesla will remain the same. Necrons lack a reliable high strength firing option, so all the mid-level stuff will likely remain as is.

Monoliths will hopefully gain some buffs, but I wouldn't be on it - it's a decent size kit that they could do well to sell more of - as well as being incredibly iconic to the army.

You have a point, necrons don't have much mid strength shooting, except for tesla destructors. So I dunno what they'll do. Maybe make more models able to take Gauss and Tesla Cannons? Or maybe make them worth it a bit?

Also, I would love for the monolith to be amazing, hell, I'll settle for good.

I don't know quite how one can nerf MSS and still make it desirable. The problem is that Overlords aren't all that great barring a ride on a chariot - they're pretty much vehicles for three pieces of wargear - MSS, Warscythes, and ResOrbs. With MSS nerfed (and I'd say that's almost a given) it would be nice if Lords could open a Royal Court. Hell, it'd be great if the Royal Court didn't need an unlock anymore.

There's really no reason to take an Overlord if MSS doesn't work well. It's really just a cheap speed bump on an expensive model. Sure MSS is 15pts - but that Overlord isn't - and he doesn't do anything that you don't pay for him to do afterwards.

I will say that if any of the previously mentioned CC units become table worthy, then the Overlord could be worthwhile. He could be placed in said unit, unlock the Royal Court, and then place Lords in with your Warriors.

As far as shots in the dark go - a new cryptek harbinger would be fun. Scarab models in their own box would be something.

Nerfs could be a hit on the BS of Warriors (BS 3 :(), Wraiths losing their invulnerable, and points investment per level of RP (+6, +5, etc.).

Who knows? The company and studio are absolutely wild cards.

You can expect an expensive supplement that adds enough rules to fill a page or two that could have easily been included in the codex.

- Anyone else think Overlords should get IWND? (mostly because it always struck me as odd that they can self-repair... but only after being completely destroyed )

 Thokt wrote:
I don't know quite how one can nerf MSS and still make it desirable. The problem is that Overlords aren't all that great barring a ride on a chariot - they're pretty much vehicles for three pieces of wargear - MSS, Warscythes, and ResOrbs. With MSS nerfed (and I'd say that's almost a given) it would be nice if Lords could open a Royal Court. Hell, it'd be great if the Royal Court didn't need an unlock anymore.

There's really no reason to take an Overlord if MSS doesn't work well. It's really just a cheap speed bump on an expensive model. Sure MSS is 15pts - but that Overlord isn't - and he doesn't do anything that you don't pay for him to do afterwards.

I think the problem is that their stats are pretty poor, and they don't really do anything outside of those equipments you listed.

Most other commanders either have good combat abilities (Chaos Lords, SM Chapter Masters - WS6, I5 4+ attacks etc.), or act as force multipliers (Librarians, IG Command Squads etc.). But, Overlords lack combat skills - even with their best weapon, they just don't have the WS or attacks to get a reasonable number of hits - nor do they provide any buffs. All they do is unlock a royal court.

Also, they can only be equipped for combat or short-range shooting. But, Necrons specialise mainly at mid-range shooting, and generally don't want to be in combat at all. So, there's no synergy with what the Overlord actually brings to a squad. This might not be so bad if we actually had a ranged HQ. Instead, we get to choose between a melee HQ or a different melee HQ.

At best, you might be able to use them to soak some bullets for an important squad. But a) I don't think this should be the primary reason for choosing an HQ, and b) this is a mechanic I'd like to see killed with fire, so it's really not something I'd like to see Overlords built around.

Anyway, I think they need to have something more useful before gear. If they're not going to get good combat stats, then let them grant some kind of buff to a squad.

 Blacksails wrote:
You can expect an expensive supplement that adds enough rules to fill a page or two that could have easily been included in the codex.

Ans most likely a few good units removed so that they can be sold back to us in said supplements.

Because, GW feels that it still hasn't alienated quite enough of its player base.

My hopes are as follow:
-Some change to Flayed Ones.. I like them and in my opinion they could become good with just some additional rule or wargear. At least a Role-change to Troops.
-Lychguard/Praetorians, I would like them cheaper or tougher. Praetorians need more attacks.
-C'tan being reworked. At the moment they are 'meh' at best and I don't like their abilities.
-Changes to the Wargear: Point reduction, some other stuff being upgraded to make them useful besides "Warscythe on everything!!!".
-Cheaper Destroyers
-Living Metal is useless most games, could become an upgrade with IWND or something?
-Unique Characters! Necrons have a lot of force multipliers. Sadly none of them are a Unique HQ. Except for Zhandrekh most of them are boring and quite pricey for what they do.
-Monoliths need some DS-protection, at the moment they are very slow and quite lacking in firepower. Yes, they can shoot all around; but you will never do that because they only move 6" a turn.
-Take another look at Pylons with Skyfire and Interceptor.. They were heavy support that also acted as AA, but 7th made them useless.
-Triarch Stalker should have some more defensive stats.
-Death Marks could use DS without scatter OR have Interceptor! Or both as long as you do it in your own Deployment zone or within X inch of a Lord/Cryptek?

 Random Dude wrote:
Necrons are still mid-top tier with their current codex, so do they really need a new one?

They are mid to top tier with like one or two builds that I personally don't play because I dislike the spam.
I want a new codex to 'nerf' that spam and make other options more interesting and viable.
And there are just four codices left, so we will get one "soon".

 vipoid wrote:
- What do people think of the current Gauss rules? I think someone suggested a while ago that it should be replaced with Rending. So, it's more dangerous against infantry, but its anti-vehicle capability is dependant on weapon strength and the rending roll (and so e.g. you might have to use Storm Crypteks for tougher vehicles, rather than being able to rely on warriors). I think it's an interesting idea, but I'm wondering if it would make us too strong. Any thoughts?

I like where Gauss is now.
Giving them Rending might be too good against 2+ units when you have blobs of 20 Warriors.

What sort of nerf are you expecting?

Maybe they should make it so that it becomes near useless when your opponent charges you

- It would be nice if Tesla weapons (other than the Destructor) had a bit more going for them. The changes to rapid-fire have left them being basically inferior - worse AP, can't touch most vehicles and can't double-tap at close range.

How do you mean?
I always take Tesla over Gauss on my Immortals and Barges.

Kangodo wrote:
]Maybe they should make it so that it becomes near useless when your opponent charges you

I think that would qualify as just 'useless'.

Kangodo wrote:
]How do you mean? I always take Tesla over Gauss on my Immortals and Barges.

Barges I can understand, since I'm often snapshotting the secondary weapon anyway.

But, why do you like Tesla on Immortals? I just don't see the advantage over Gauss.

I am hoping that all the necrons take off mask and reveal they are actually squats wearing stilts. Then we can A) get squats back in the game and B) get necrons out!

 Saevus wrote:
I am hoping that all the necrons take off mask and reveal they are actually squats wearing stilts. Then we can A) get squats back in the game and B) get necrons out!

Can I nominate this for a conversion idea?

 vipoid wrote:

But, why do you like Tesla on Immortals? I just don't see the advantage over Gauss.

Always, always get Tesla over Gauss on Immortals.

Gauss is good when you can amass shots. If you want Gauss, take Warriors, as they are cheaper and can be taken in larger units.

Tesla is superior to Gauss in most circumstances (Gauss is better at 4+ and below 12'' - but why exactly are they so close?) so if you go for Immortals, you go for Tesla.

 vipoid wrote:
I think that would qualify as just 'useless'.

It was a joke because they already are that "useless" when it's your opponents turn

Barges I can understand, since I'm often snapshotting the secondary weapon anyway.
But, why do you like Tesla on Immortals? I just don't see the advantage over Gauss.

Because I hardly play against armies with a Sv4+
And I always take Warriors and let my Immortals fall back a couple of inches when the enemy gets close.
That means my Warrior-blob can Rapid Fire the enemy while the Immortals focus on the second wave.

Gauss is better in two scenarios:
Within 12" : I always have my Warriors closeby so I prefer the bonus at 12-24"
4+ Armour: I hardly play against armies with 4+ armour.

I only pick Immortals if I want a unit with Tesla, otherwise I will just pick up some Warriors with Ghost Arks.
The only reason I would pick Gauss-Immortals is if my opponent demands WYSIWYG and I only have my Immortals with Gauss with me.
And it's also because I've had some amazing experiences with them against Orks, Tyranids and even Terminators.

Some math: http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?347779-Immortal-Mathhammer-Gauss-Blasters-vs-Tesla-Carbines
Against anything with a save that Gauss cannot penetrate (this includes 2+ and 3+ saves and all cover), Gauss is always better in 12" Rapid Fire range, and Tesla is always better at ranges above 12". The number of hits for Tesla falls almost exactly between the difference in Gauss's number of hits at 12 and 24".

RE: 12'' advantage of Gauss:

That's correct, however, keep in mind that Tesla is vastly superior during Overwatch.

- Obyron gains an invulnerable save.
- C'tan gain jump/flying.
- Anti-psyker options.
- More AP2.
- Tomb Blades get cut.
- A Tervigon for Necron Warriors (which isn't likely to break on the first roll).
- More Zandrekh and Trazyn lore.
- The Void Dragon.
- Szarekh.

Female Necrons. Something different. Already tired of how all SM are all males. Now Necrons are all males. Be nice to see something that is more than Kill Kill Kill.

All I see is that they are just Tyranids. Just the metal versions of Tyranids.

Ironically more soul needs to be put in for the Necrons. While yes they are robots, they need to be more than husk less automatons and have live brought into them. Newcrons is a step in the right direction, but more needs to be done.

Just so sick and tired of, we are conquering the universe, if you don't comply we kill you.

Davor wrote:
Female Necrons. Something different. Already tired of how all SM are all males. Now Necrons are all males. Be nice to see something that is more than Kill Kill Kill.

I know right? Just the other day, my Tumblr friends and I were discussing how offensive it is that you can't buy female toasters ANYWHERE.

 Blackhair Duckshape wrote:

Davor wrote:
Female Necrons. Something different. Already tired of how all SM are all males. Now Necrons are all males. Be nice to see something that is more than Kill Kill Kill.

I know right? Just the other day, my Tumblr friends and I were discussing how offensive it is that you can't buy female toasters ANYWHERE.

Speaking of toasters, The Cylons had some great looking female Toasters.

As a non-necron player:

Mindshackle Scarabs reduce WS, BS, and I to 1 in a challenge. No LD test.
Phylactery becomes relic Res Orb that makes bearer and unit pass RP and IWND on a 3+

Ever-Living replaced with It Will Not Die. Res Orb increased the IWND to a 4+ like Reanimation protocols
Living Metal reduces damage on the pen chart by 1 and grants IWND
Tesla Weapons replace Tesla rule with Shock rule from Living Lightning (Same as tesla but does not work on snap shots)

Destroyers/Heavy Destroyers/Destroyer Lords become Jet Infantry. New kit adds options for Heavy Gauss Cannon, Tesla Destructor, or Particle Shredder to Heavy Destroyers

Flayed Ones replace Deep Strike with Scout, Move Through Cover, Rending, and Fear. Option to upgrade to pair of lightning claws.
Add Flayed Lord option- Overlord with Scout, Move Through Cover, and Fear, some options reduced.

Deathmarks: Ethereal Interception grants them the Interceptor rule against units that deep strike. Hunters from Hyperspace does not pass on to attached characters. Disintegrator rifle gains Pinning.

Night Scythe: Replace Invasion Beam with "An Embarked Unit may disembark even if the flier is currently Zooming. They may only snapshoot this turn."

Catacomb Command Barge: Remove Sweep Attack, replace with Vector Strike.

Triarch Stalker: ive the dispersed Heat Ray the Torrent rule.

Lychguard: +5 PPM, bump to 2+ armor.

Annihilation Barge: Bump to 125 points

Transcendent C'Tan: Drop Seismic Assault from 6d6 to 3d6. Bump base price by 180 points. Add it and Obelisk to the Codex. Obelisk is fine as is.

Remove the Royal Court. Make Lords, Crypteks, and Pariahs individual HQ choices that have the rule (this model may attach to a unit of Warriors, Immortals, Lychguard, Deathmarks, or Triarch Praetorians at the start of the game. If they do, this model does not take up a FOC slot)
Pariahs return as S/T 4 Lords with no wargear options, and Ever-Living replaced with Fear and Adamantium Will.


Kits:
Lord/Pariah/Cryptek box set of 5 models with 5 staff of light, 2-3 war scythes, and one or two each of hyperphase blade, gauntlet of fire, void blade, Tremorstave, abyssal staff, eldrich lance, aeonstave, or voltaic staff.
Destroyer/ Heavy Destroyer/ Destroyer Lord 3 pack
Flayed One 5 pack with option to make Flayed Lord.
C'Tan single box
Clampack Overlord

 MajorWesJanson wrote:


Transcendent C'Tan: Drop Seismic Assault from 6d6 to 3d6. Bump base price by 180 points. Add it and Obelisk to the Codex. Obelisk is fine as is.

Um, no. It would be unusable at that point. It's already extremely expensive for only 6 wounds. Powerful, yes. But expensive.

speak of 6s while snap firing, its pretty obvious that tesla WILL be nerfed

just check SW 's psychic "tesla" rules, more hit when you roll 6s, but not when you snap

 Sigvatr wrote:

Always, always get Tesla over Gauss on Immortals.

Gauss is good when you can amass shots. If you want Gauss, take Warriors, as they are cheaper and can be taken in larger units.

Tesla is superior to Gauss in most circumstances (Gauss is better at 4+ and below 12'' - but why exactly are they so close?) so if you go for Immortals, you go for Tesla.

I don't follow your logic.

- Gauss is superior against vehicles (not as good as on warriors, but still very good).
- Gauss is superior against anything with a 4+ (or worse) save
- Gauss is superior at 12"

Tesla is better at 12<24", if the target has a 3+ or 2+ save.

For me, I just don't see enough circumstances where Tesla is superior (both in terms of mathhammer and on the field). On the other hand, as well as obliterating squads with rapid-fire, I've also just had so many situations come up where Gauss was better - either because of AP4, or because I needed a vehicle dead and had run out of other stuff to shoot at it.

Tesla meanwhile has only ever been good on those occasions where the planets align and half your to-hit rolls are 6s. Which, admittedly, do make me want to use more tesla.

Kangodo wrote:

Because I hardly play against armies with a Sv4+
And I always take Warriors and let my Immortals fall back a couple of inches when the enemy gets close.
That means my Warrior-blob can Rapid Fire the enemy while the Immortals focus on the second wave.

Interesting.

Kangodo wrote:

Some math: http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?347779-Immortal-Mathhammer-Gauss-Blasters-vs-Tesla-Carbines
Against anything with a save that Gauss cannot penetrate (this includes 2+ and 3+ saves and all cover), Gauss is always better in 12" Rapid Fire range, and Tesla is always better at ranges above 12". The number of hits for Tesla falls almost exactly between the difference in Gauss's number of hits at 12 and 24".

Well, also bear in mind that Gauss gives you a good chance of chipping a hull point or two off something. It's not amazing unless you're in rapid-fire range, but it's often a very useful option to have.

 Sigvatr wrote:
RE: 12'' advantage of Gauss:

That's correct, however, keep in mind that Tesla is vastly superior during Overwatch.

Hardly vastly. Remember that a Gauss unit will likely be getting twice as many shots against the charging unit (and, if it matters AP4 ones).

I'd rather have more shots at full BS than start relying on overwatch.