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Made in gb
[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego





Canterbury

via http://tencopper.com/article/2014/08/wargaming-survey-reveals-majority-of-gamers-play-for-20-years-or-more/
via BOLS

Netherlands publishing house Karwansaray commissioned a survey of nearly 8,000 wargamers this year, and has published the first round of results on their blog.

According to the survey — which will be published in full in their next issue of Wargames, Soldiers & Strategy — a depressing 1% identified as female, which is probably in line with what most people are expecting, but there’s always time to change!

The survey also showed that only 21% of wargamers are under 30. On a national breakdown, Karwansaray discovered that North American wargamers tend to be much older than their European counterparts as well, which is interesting.

Perhaps most tellingly, a whopping 55% of surveyed wargamers indicated that they had been playing for 20 years or more. 63% indicated that they would continue playing “come hell or high water”, with another 33% saying it was a matter of money.

Interesting stuff.


http://www.karwansaraypublishers.com/cms/karwansaray/home/staff/readmore-general/24-ws-s/ws-s-news/427-the-results-are-in.html



July has passed, August is here, and the results of the Great Wargaming Survey are in. The incredible number of 7759 wargamers took the time to fill out our survey, and, as we’ve said before, we are extremely grateful to all of them for doing so. I've also sent out emails to the survey prize winners - so check your inbox (and probably spam folder, just to be sure).

We’d also like to extend our thanks to the survey sponsors – 4Ground, Warlord Games, North Star Miniatures, Osprey Publishing, Pen & Sword and Casemate – as well as those bloggers who helped spread the word!

I could (and will) write a lot about how the survey came about, what we did, and why we did it and what we’ve learnt for any future surveys (yes, we have taken note of all the feedback). But for now, I expect most of you just don’t give a damn about any uhm-ing and ah-ing. You just want some of the results. The full set will need some more processing – there are nearly a million elements of data resulting from this survey – and they will be published in issue 75 of Wargames, Soldiers & Strategy, but here are some preliminaries.

We’ve got a fairly nice distribution of wargamers worldwide with 8.1% from Australia and New Zealand, 23.8% from Continental Europe, 30.8% from the UK & Ireland, and 37.3% from North America. The rest indicated they lived elsewhere. It’s probably no shocking result, but perhaps a pity, that only about 1% is female. 4% indicate they really don’t care what gender the wargamer identifies as.

Now age… Whether the hobby is graying was one of our initial questions, but we really can’t answer that with just one survey. We’d have to repeat this exact question over the next few years and see what changes. For now, it’s interesting to note that 21% is under 30, 22% is over 50 and the rest is thoroughly ‘in the prime of their life’ / ‘middle-aged’ (please circle what is appropriate). More interesting yet is that there are some clear differences per region (as above). Wargamers in ‘the Old World’ (Continental Europe) are markedly younger (30% under 30, 9% over 50) than those in North America (17% vs 27% respectively).

Wargaming is apparently also a hobby that lasts you a long time. No less than 55% indicates they’ve been ‘at it’ for at least 20 years or were taught how to roll dice by Don Featherstone… Not so in Continental Europe though, where 27% has wargamed less than 10 years vs. 20% overall. Almost everyone also indicates they want to keep going (63% “come hell or high water”, 33% as long as they can afford to and life doesn’t intervene, 3% is ambivalent about the hobby and the remaining percent doesn’t expect to).

When it comes to introducing wargamers to the hobby, friends are by far the greatest influence. Number two with some distance is “I started painting miniatures and then thought I might play with them”, very closely followed (with about 1% difference) by magazines (pfew! We still have a role there!).

That takes care of the first set of questions, hopefully satisfies some curiosity and undoubtedly provides food for thought and debate. More later!



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Interesting, but I have a feeling this is just a really biased sample. It seems to be a poll of dedicated historical wargaming fans, so it would make sense that most of them would say that they're going to play forever.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
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[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in south-central England.

It is a biased sample because it is self-selecting from a limited group. Only keen wargamers who knew about the survey entered it, who presumably are readers of the Karansay magazines, which are all historical.

That does not invalidate the results but it means they cannot be taken as widely applicable. The age spread of 40K players would probably emphasise youth more, I would guess.

However the idea that keen hobbyists continue their hobbies throughout life is not exactly a revelation. I think it would not be applicable to GW games as well as historicals. In my own experience, many wargamers are happy to play a variety of games and periods. If GW differs, it might be that there seem to be a fair number of 40K players who don't play anything else.

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Made in ie
Calculating Commissar




Frostgrave

It was floated about on a lot of forums, but I still agree; I suspect a lot of the younger / GW only gamers will be completely unaware of it's existence.
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

Keen hobbyists eager to continue for decades at hobby.

You could apply that to pretty much any hobby. So long as people are mentally, physically and financial capable they'll continue doing what they enjoy right up until they are forced by changing situations not to.

Keen photographers will keep taking photos - keen artists will keep drawing - keen racers will keep racing etc.... Wargammers are no different


And yes a study conducted upon a niche population within a niche population is going to give very niche focused information only.

A Blog in Miniature

3D Printing, hobbying and model fun! 
   
Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in south-central England.

I was unaware of its existence. If it was on The Miniatures Page I missed it because I don't visit there so much any more.

However they plan to run it again next year and perhaps DakkaDakka will carry a link.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
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Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

I think if they got their link into Dakka - Bells - heck a large number of the bigger warhmmer - warmachine - etc.. sites they'd get a much wider spread of information.

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Somewhere in south-central England.

They would certainly get a lot more exposure among SF/Fantasy players.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
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Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

Aye very true - its interesting how historical and sci-fi are almost partly kept apart socially on the net. Even on Dakka the historical is a smaller element. It would be interesting for the two social groups to merge and mingle all the more.

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3D Printing, hobbying and model fun! 
   
Made in ca
Lit By the Flames of Prospero





Edmonton, Alberta

My experience is that long time historical players like being separated from the other war gamers because they allegedly have more mature tastes then childish sci-fi and fantasy games.

I saw a flames of war group killed off at a low because a bunch of 40 something neck beards arrived to be the fun police, and tell us we were doing it wrong.

=/

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/13 10:22:16


 
   
Made in jp
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Somewhere in south-central England.

That hasn't been my experience. The clubs I have attended have normally been very open to different types of games and genres. So are big shows like Salute in London.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
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MN (Currently in WY)

27+ years for m all ready. I don;t plan on stopping, but the last 7 years has seen significantly LESS time actually gaming and more time creating content of my own.

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Posts with Authority






 Overread wrote:
Aye very true - its interesting how historical and sci-fi are almost partly kept apart socially on the net. Even on Dakka the historical is a smaller element. It would be interesting for the two social groups to merge and mingle all the more.
Not just on the net - when I first started wargaming there was a distinct divide between fantasy and historical gamers, with the historical gamers making claims that fantasy gaming was going to either destroy or take over the hobby.

They were not happy people.

This was Mainecon, circa 1976, organized through the Maine Wargamers Association.

One of the even organizers ran Sturmgeschutz and Sorcery - a wargame scenario written by Gary Gygax, with SS vs. the army an evil wizard - and neither side told that they were fighting in a mixed game.

The fantasy gamers really enjoyed the scenario.

Most of the historical gamers felt betrayed. (Only most - those that liked it enjoyed it as much as the fantasy gamers.)

I was relatively new to historicals, and had just started playing D&D (the game was less than a year old at the time). I had been playing Napoleonics for about as long as D&D had been around.

So, yeah... the schism goes back a ways.

The Auld Grump

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/13 15:01:54


Kilkrazy wrote:When I was a young boy all my wargames were narratively based because I played with my toy soldiers and vehicles without the use of any rules.

The reason I bought rules and became a real wargamer was because I wanted a properly thought out structure to govern the action instead of just making things up as I went along.
 
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut





Myrtle Creek, OR

I took the survey when it was on TMP.
Person who put it up seemed like a nice sort but I wouldn't want to face a thesis/dissertation committee with that instrument or its results.

Thread Slayer 
   
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On an Express Elevator to Hell!!

 Kilkrazy wrote:
That hasn't been my experience. The clubs I have attended have normally been very open to different types of games and genres. So are big shows like Salute in London.


Yes me too..

I love sci-fi and fantasy, I love historicals.. I think you probably have a 50+ generation that didn't have as many sci-fi/fantasy wargaming options available to them when they were younger and so haven't turned to them later in life*

So on that basis it will be interesting to see when the current 25-30+ age group get to their advanced years, whether they continue to play games of all types. I would hazard a guess that they will do!

Dakka started life on the fantastical side of things and so it stands to reason that the majority of the users here are here for that reason. But, the historical section got expanded not all that long ago and is pretty active. I also see a fair few names there that you see in the Infinity section, 40k, Mantic or whatever.

*(although, I should stipulate that I know a fair number of players that are in that age group and do dabble beyond historicals).

Epic 30K&40K! A new players guide, contributors welcome https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/751316.page
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Louisiana

privateer4hire wrote:
I took the survey when it was on TMP.
Person who put it up seemed like a nice sort but I wouldn't want to face a thesis/dissertation committee with that instrument or its results.


The survey was not written terribly. And with over 7K respondents there's a respectable data set to work with. Self-selection bias is certainly an issue, and it needs to be accounted for in the statistical analysis and interpretation of the results. But for graduate work, especially as a Masters thesis, one could do far worse.

As long as there's good identification of and accounting for the limitations of the study then the results will have some utility.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Kilkrazy wrote:
It is a biased sample because it is self-selecting from a limited group. Only keen wargamers who knew about the survey entered it, who presumably are readers of the Karansay magazines, which are all historical.


I think I saw that magazine readers accounted for a really small proportion of the respondents.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/13 18:37:35


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Somewhere in south-central England.

If it was promoted on The Miniatures Page it should have got a wide circulation among English speaking historicals players.

TMP is I believe the largest wargames forum in the world by quite a margin.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
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-






-

I don't think it is too surprising to anyone [outside of GW] that many wargamers last well beyond Two Birthdays and A Christmas.

   
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Longtime Dakkanaut





Myrtle Creek, OR

weeble1000 wrote:
privateer4hire wrote:
I took the survey when it was on TMP.
Person who put it up seemed like a nice sort but I wouldn't want to face a thesis/dissertation committee with that instrument or its results.


The survey was not written terribly. And with over 7K respondents there's a respectable data set to work with. Self-selection bias is certainly an issue, and it needs to be accounted for in the statistical analysis and interpretation of the results. But for graduate work, especially as a Masters thesis, one could do far worse.

As long as there's good identification of and accounting for the limitations of the study then the results will have some utility.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Kilkrazy wrote:
It is a biased sample because it is self-selecting from a limited group. Only keen wargamers who knew about the survey entered it, who presumably are readers of the Karansay magazines, which are all historical.


I think I saw that magazine readers accounted for a really small proportion of the respondents.


Agreed. The concept is solid just saying the instrument needed more fine tuning.







Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Kilkrazy wrote:
If it was promoted on The Miniatures Page it should have got a wide circulation among English speaking historicals players.

TMP is I believe the largest wargames forum in the world by quite a margin.


Dunno other sites' stats but TMP claims: 38,206 member as of today.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/13 23:38:23


Thread Slayer 
   
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Bristol, England

 Kilkrazy wrote:
TMP is I believe the largest wargames forum in the world by quite a margin.

privateer4hire wrote:
Dunno other sites' stats but TMP claims: 38,206 member as of today.

We have 88,094 registered users here on Dakka, so nope.

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Everyone: No.
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Made in gb
Joined the Military for Authentic Experience





On an Express Elevator to Hell!!

I wonder what the regular poster figures and traffic amounts are like though? I think probably a good portion of that 88,000 are people with 3 posts, one of which says "Yay! Space Marines!" and then are never heard from again.

Although, I think as historicals are played a lot by the generation that hasn't grown up on internet forums (or at least posting on them extensively) I'm not sure how much we can infer from these figures re. sci-fi/fantasy vs. historical game popularity.

Epic 30K&40K! A new players guide, contributors welcome https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/751316.page
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Zutphen, the Netherlands

Hi guys!
Thanks for all the comments. Yes, I realise the survey wasn't perfect. We did skip many things, some for a reason, some because of oversight, some because of doh!
We actually promoted the survey on a lot (something like 20-30) sites and forums. TMP, TGN, and BOLS all carried the initial news item and one or two follow-ups each. We did try to reach as many wargamers (or rather, tabletop wargamers) as possible and we also tried to not make it too focused on historical wargaming, but we also hoped not to have a gazillion options for each question, so...
All of which is just to say: if and when we do a follow-up, we'll try to do it better. Sorry if we failed the marketing/survey/dissertation exam, but glad that we seemed like 'a nice sort'. ;-)
   
Made in jp
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Somewhere in south-central England.

Welcome to DakkaDakka.

Next year if you offer the survey here you will get a lot of responses from 40K and Fantasy players as well as a broad spread of wargamers in many genres.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
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Fresh-Faced New User



Zutphen, the Netherlands

I'm definitely going to.
   
Made in gb
Major





I first started Wargaming in the early/mid 90's as a young teenager and the Fantasy/Historicals schism was quite pronounced then, but is far less so now. The is still some segregatrion but it's nothing compared to how it used to be.

I think this is mainly due the fact that the generation that grew up playing fantasy games has now come of age and are senior players in general wargaming scene, whereas 20 years ago they where spotty oiks like myself.

The older generation that grew up purely playing historicals and saw fantasy gaming as some new fangled thing not to be trusted are now outnumbered and dying off (both metaphorically and literally).

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Interesting, so the number 1 reason people enter the hobby is that a friend introduces them to the "GAME", not that most of us didnt know already, but there goes the "Make and sell the best MINIATURES" right out the window.
   
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Somewhere in south-central England.

Yeah. It just needs people to start introducing friends to other games to turn the whole thing very sour for GW, let alone if people start telling their friends, "I used to play 40K but it got too stupid and expensive. No-one plays it any more. Try this game instead."

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
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Dipping With Wood Stain



Welwyn Garden City, Herts

 Alex Kolodotschko wrote:
 Kilkrazy wrote:
TMP is I believe the largest wargames forum in the world by quite a margin.

privateer4hire wrote:
Dunno other sites' stats but TMP claims: 38,206 member as of today.

We have 88,094 registered users here on Dakka, so nope.


TMP's stats are as dodgy as, a very dodgy thing. Sock Puppet accounts are acknowledged and tolerated, inactive accounts are still counted and even locked accounts are still counted in the overall stats. There's a lot of sock puppet accounts, there's an awful lot of inactive accounts and there's an increasing amount of locked accounts* as the "Editor" seems to be in the middle of a (very weird) meltdown right now.

*Mine is one - just for full disclosure.

   
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If only GW did their own research into who was buying their product. It could prove helpful, but that's just me.



Also, check out my history blog: Minimum Wage Historian, a fun place to check out history that often falls between the couch cushions. 
   
Made in nl
Fresh-Faced New User



Zutphen, the Netherlands

I'd read "I started painting miniatures and then got curious about playing with them" being number two as at least some justification for the collectable side of the GW model (and Wargames Foundry, and ...). But that was, by some marging, the second reason.
   
 
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