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hello all, we have a local league and I wanted to do something a bit different. Any feedback would be wholly appriciated

HQ

Autarch 145
mantle, jetbike, fusion gun, laser lance

Troops
Dire avengers (5), Wave Serpent (holofield, scatterlaser, Shuriken cannon) 210

Dire avengers (5), Wave Serpent (holofield, scatterlaser, Shuriken cannon) 210

Dire avengers (5), Wave Serpent (holofield, scatterlaser, Shuriken cannon) 210

Fast
Warpspiders ( 7 ) 133

Warpspiders ( 7 ) 133

Warpspiders ( 7 ) 133

Heavy
Wraithknight (240)

war walker squadron (3) scatterlaser/BL 210

war walker squadron (3) scatterlaser/starcannon 210


total 1834

Looks good. Flyers might present a problem but you should annihilate anything on the ground. Only thing I might suggest is dual bright lances on the walkers but that's a matter of preference. If you want ot the extra shots for downing infantry or light vehicles keep the scatter lasers. If you want them solely for taking out heavy vehicles then 2 brightlances is better vs armor 13 and 14.
Another thing I notice is that you don't have much low ap weapons

2 lances per walker on lance squad. its so much better to have the extra shot than to have the twin linked squad.

 ninjafiredragon wrote:
2 lances per walker on lance squad. its so much better to have the extra shot than to have the twin linked squad.

Entirely depends on what hes using the walkers for. If they are only for hunting AV14 then the dual lance is a much better option, but if hes focusing on taking out transports and light armour than the scatter laser + BL combo is better, I think the cutoff is av12 ive been looking for the math hammer thread on this for about 15 minutes.

chadbrochill17 wrote:

 ninjafiredragon wrote:
2 lances per walker on lance squad. its so much better to have the extra shot than to have the twin linked squad.

Entirely depends on what hes using the walkers for. If they are only for hunting AV14 then the dual lance is a much better option, but if hes focusing on taking out transports and light armour than the scatter laser + BL combo is better, I think the cutoff is av12 ive been looking for the math hammer thread on this for about 15 minutes.

And what do you think the war walkers are for? High armor. 3 Wave serpents, and 21 warp spiders are PLENTY of anti light vehicle.

captain assumption here can read ops mind i guess.

chadbrochill17 wrote:
captain assumption here can read ops mind i guess.

I can read his list.
Which has pretty strait forward tactics.

 ninjafiredragon wrote:
2 lances per walker on lance squad. its so much better to have the extra shot than to have the twin linked squad.

My first iteration had only the solitarch and the Knight for av >12. I added the lances for a bit more AV13-14 punch but I'm concerned that the 3 additonal BL's might end up being too much AV14 hunting at the expense of more shots?

I suppose asked directly: Do you think I'm too heavy on my AV13-14 with a full BL loadout on a unit of war walkers?

Vaul's artillery can provide more firepower and survivability as heavy artillery than war walkers on a point for point basis, but you'd have to get a 2nd HQ and a 4th troop choice for the second detachment. And they're less mobile. Personal preference.

ninety0ne wrote:

 ninjafiredragon wrote:
2 lances per walker on lance squad. its so much better to have the extra shot than to have the twin linked squad.

My first iteration had only the solitarch and the Knight for av >12. I added the lances for a bit more AV13-14 punch but I'm concerned that the 3 additonal BL's might end up being too much AV14 hunting at the expense of more shots?

I suppose asked directly: Do you think I'm too heavy on my AV13-14 with a full BL loadout on a unit of war walkers?

No. Without guide you average like 2 hull points on anything av12+, and thats with them not in cover. They dont even kill a drop pod on average.

If you want an all round list then it does lack AV14 removal.

As ninja has stated, its quite the opposite of having too much.

They will always have a valid target no matter what army you play against.

Even against Orks they can be for killing units of nobz and MANz.


However, keep in mind that with a well rounded army you will never have plenty of everything.
You need to find a comfortable balance in between that can do enough for each.

The spiders are pretty damn good for transports, however, maybe spinnerettes with an exarch?
Gives it that bit extra for punching through armour.

However, that autarch is good, but wont do a great deal.
By dropping him down to a basic seer you save 75 points which can get you the upgrades for the spiders.


If you really are worried about anti-armour though, get a unit of dragons with exarch, pike and fast shot and a serpent for them.
There really is nothing as certain for killing armour.

As funny as it is, i was never sure of them until i went OTT.
10 with the above set up and Fuegan in a serpent.
13 melta shots that really do bring anything down.

I now run the above (minus fuegan) in alot of games as Imperial knights are quite popular here now.




If there is no armour, use them for monster hunting or TEQ hunting.

Celerior wrote:
Vaul's artillery can provide more firepower and survivability as heavy artillery than war walkers on a point for point basis, but you'd have to get a 2nd HQ and a 4th troop choice for the second detachment. And they're less mobile. Personal preference.

what am I missing on the support batteries, they look so weak to me. Im assuming one loads them with the dcannon option and does a move shoot move to drop 3 10/2 blasts. Could you respond more with what Im not seeing about them or link a tactica on them?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jackal wrote:
If you want an all round list then it does lack AV14 removal.

As ninja has stated, its quite the opposite of having too much.

They will always have a valid target no matter what army you play against.

Even against Orks they can be for killing units of nobz and MANz.


However, keep in mind that with a well rounded army you will never have plenty of everything.
You need to find a comfortable balance in between that can do enough for each.

The spiders are pretty damn good for transports, however, maybe spinnerettes with an exarch?
Gives it that bit extra for punching through armour.

However, that autarch is good, but wont do a great deal.
By dropping him down to a basic seer you save 75 points which can get you the upgrades for the spiders.


If you really are worried about anti-armour though, get a unit of dragons with exarch, pike and fast shot and a serpent for them.
There really is nothing as certain for killing armour.

As funny as it is, i was never sure of them until i went OTT.
10 with the above set up and Fuegan in a serpent.
13 melta shots that really do bring anything down.

I now run the above (minus fuegan) in alot of games as Imperial knights are quite popular here now.




If there is no armour, use them for monster hunting or TEQ hunting.

thank you:

1. Im uncertain how the spinneret rifle is helpful, it adds 6" of range and ap1 but its still str 7 vs a vehicle. If I'm opening up on a vehicle with 1 warp spider, its getting hit with a whole fist full of dice, I'd expect to hull av 12 or less in a round or two of shooting long before I feel id see benefits from a pair of ap1 shots. that said I am 15 under and could add an warp spider exarch and a TL spinner.


2. I like fire dragons, but I'm thinking I'll omit them from this list. I have one im thinking of that has no heavy support just serpent spam, fire dragons, and wraith guard

3. Im really tossed about eldar HQ right now. Rolling for psychic powers makes me nervous of a single psyker HQ. It _feels_ like if I want to have psyker, I have to build for it and commit to multiple psyker models. I'm a bit uncertain what else to do with the cost gap between the solitarch and a different single HQ. I could see dumping him for 2 plain jane spritseers and hoping for invis, but even then I think the solitarch will get his points back and im not sure I could get the same benfit from even 2 spirit seers.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
reflecting some discussed changes

added BL/BL walker unit and exacrh with TL spinner to a spider group
HQ

Autarch 145
mantle, jetbike, fusion gun, laser lance

Troops
Dire avengers (5), Wave Serpent (holofield, scatterlaser, Shuriken cannon) 210

Dire avengers (5), Wave Serpent (holofield, scatterlaser, Shuriken cannon) 210

Dire avengers (5), Wave Serpent (holofield, scatterlaser, Shuriken cannon) 210

Fast
Warpspiders ( 7 ) 148 exarch tl spinners

Warpspiders ( 7 ) 133

Warpspiders ( 7 ) 133

Heavy
Wraithknight (240)

war walker squadron (3) BL/BL 210

war walker squadron (3) scatterlaser/starcannon 210

total 1849

I mean it really looks great. Be careful with the Autarch, allot of people think the mantle makes him invincible and send him straight at the enemy, but in close combat is the only place he can get easily killed. Heck a 10 man tactical squad does about as many wounds to you as you do to them.

 ninjafiredragon wrote:
I mean it really looks great. Be careful with the Autarch, allot of people think the mantle makes him invincible and send him straight at the enemy, but in close combat is the only place he can get easily killed. Heck a 10 man tactical squad does about as many wounds to you as you do to them.

Other things can kill something with a mantel easy, Tau marker lights. flamers, 6 to wound with a D weapon.

Djbillson wrote:

 ninjafiredragon wrote:
I mean it really looks great. Be careful with the Autarch, allot of people think the mantle makes him invincible and send him straight at the enemy, but in close combat is the only place he can get easily killed. Heck a 10 man tactical squad does about as many wounds to you as you do to them.

Other things can kill something with a mantel easy, Tau marker lights. flamers, 6 to wound with a D weapon.

Against tau, reserve it. Kill marker lights, and your fine. Pick your targets, and stay away from flamers. Who would waste a D weapon shot vs a target that it would only harm (kill) on a 6?

I like the list, I love warp spiders they are just so damn good..

I dont have exact points as no codex in hand, but if I recall I really enjoyed going with the exarch with tl and fast shot, the shots you get equal out to a little more than an extra spider but at a few less points than actually buying the other spider, + twinlinked!!

Not a huge fan of star cannons, id go with BL/BL on them or as i said earlier if your trying to focus on transports with those units a SL BL combo is quite nice for AV12 and under.

Re: Vauls support battery. They are immense. Pure and simple. But you need to spam them.. 9 is not over kill.. do not take the d cannon variety.. just be happy with your 18x T7 wounds that cost 270 points and can obliterate a squad and be happy that if the big guns die you have 18 guardians. I often place an avatar near for the discouragement he offers.. and fearlessness.. 18 guardians are pretty useful.. i take the web spinner version.. i looked at vibro but not getting to optimum str9 without a farseer with guide is a waste... short answer: 270 points for a fortress wall that kills pretty much their entire army... you are talking 9 CD's that do str 6.. insta kills guard... the multiple hits can reach into the 30's.. nasty nasty nasty

ConanMan wrote:
Re: Vauls support battery. They are immense. Pure and simple. But you need to spam them.. 9 is not over kill.. do not take the d cannon variety.. just be happy with your 18x T7 wounds that cost 270 points and can obliterate a squad and be happy that if the big guns die you have 18 guardians. I often place an avatar near for the discouragement he offers.. and fearlessness.. 18 guardians are pretty useful.. i take the web spinner version.. i looked at vibro but not getting to optimum str9 without a farseer with guide is a waste... short answer: 270 points for a fortress wall that kills pretty much their entire army... you are talking 9 CD's that do str 6.. insta kills guard... the multiple hits can reach into the 30's.. nasty nasty nasty

Do note that when either the heavy weapons and/or guardians are removed, the other is removed from play also. So if 2 crewmen for a gun are killed, the gun is killed also. And if the gun is killed, the 2 crew men are gone also.

And yes they are very very nasty. cheap and good.

Can you cite where it says that?

7th edition rulebook under artillery.

It says that "if all the crew models are killed the guns are immediately removed as well" so dead crew means dead gun too (p64 para 3 under "the unit") but not the reverse.. dead gun means live crew... but I also notuced this.. all toughness ranged is vs T7 but against closest model.. so you could sacrifice 1 guardian for an extra T7 wound.. makes them 3W x T7 if played carefully

Ok ill edit this to then.

And you were right. Im pretty sure that in 6th it was back and forth, but looks like not.
Yes, artillery are always toughness 7. Thats why I like to hide a farseer in there (who also counts as toughness 7) and then guide the squad.

Sorry my phone unlock was right under the submit button... sorry for double post i editted it

thanks for all the input and the guidance on the vauls wrath, I had honestly overlooked them as valuable.

As an after the fact follow up, I really feel the Solitarch is better on paper than in game. It could be my usage but I dont think it is. I'm considering this list scratched new thread coming up with gen2

hurray, someone else that finds the autarch a complete waste!