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Hey guys, I'm a new Tomb King player, and I've only played maybe 6-7 games with them so far. I've heard a lot of hate towards Tomb Kings, even from TK players themselves. I've also been told numerous ties that every other army does what TK do but better. And I've seen some of this first hand from VC. But what do you guys think of TK? And what do you guys think they could improve in their next book, whenever that comes around again? I'm just curious as to what you guys have to say. I'm enjoying playing them for the most part, even though every game feel slike an uphill battle.

- I think mainly the Nehekharan spells cost a lot to cast. I'd rather they reverse the ranges (24" single buff, 12" empowered bubble), and lower the casting values a little. Also, take away or change Skullstorm. It's pretty much useless.
- Also, let Heirophant control transfer to another Nehekharan priest if the first dies.
- Some things I think need to be a little cheaper for what they do. Like, our Tomb Guard and pretty much inferior to Grave Guard, and they're about the same cost.

Tomb Kings are the polar opposite of VC.

VC are very much a combat army, with multiple options to achieve that, and the lore is designed to do that.

TK however, have the best shooting in the game, can have some of the best magic phases in the game, and have GIANT STONE LIONCATS THAT BREATHE FIRE.


The vortex is okay, it's designed to be thematic, you don't want the lore for damage anyway. You want the buffs.

And the ability to take Light on an undead army is just incredible. It mitigates a glaring weakness. Couple that with all the tricks they can pull to dominate the magic phase, and you can make people afraid of the book.

Anyone who says that they're a bad book just plays it wrong. It's like people who say orcs and goblins are bad because they can't fight.

 thedarkavenger wrote:
Tomb Kings are the polar opposite of VC.

VC are very much a combat army, with multiple options to achieve that, and the lore is designed to do that.

TK however, have the best shooting in the game, can have some of the best magic phases in the game, and have GIANT STONE LIONCATS THAT BREATHE FIRE.


The vortex is okay, it's designed to be thematic, you don't want the lore for damage anyway. You want the buffs.

And the ability to take Light on an undead army is just incredible. It mitigates a glaring weakness. Couple that with all the tricks they can pull to dominate the magic phase, and you can make people afraid of the book.

Anyone who says that they're a bad book just plays it wrong. It's like people who say orcs and goblins are bad because they can't fight.

Speaking of that, is the Khemrian Warsphinx worth taking? I have a necrosphinx, and I was thinking of proxying until I get a warsphinx, but I don't know if they're that good or not.

 krodarklorr wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:
Tomb Kings are the polar opposite of VC.

VC are very much a combat army, with multiple options to achieve that, and the lore is designed to do that.

TK however, have the best shooting in the game, can have some of the best magic phases in the game, and have GIANT STONE LIONCATS THAT BREATHE FIRE.


The vortex is okay, it's designed to be thematic, you don't want the lore for damage anyway. You want the buffs.

And the ability to take Light on an undead army is just incredible. It mitigates a glaring weakness. Couple that with all the tricks they can pull to dominate the magic phase, and you can make people afraid of the book.

Anyone who says that they're a bad book just plays it wrong. It's like people who say orcs and goblins are bad because they can't fight.

Speaking of that, is the Khemrian Warsphinx worth taking? I have a necrosphinx, and I was thinking of proxying until I get a warsphinx, but I don't know if they're that good or not.

Yes. Definitely. Not on their own though. If you take two or three, you have quite a lot of threat.

 thedarkavenger wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:
Tomb Kings are the polar opposite of VC.

VC are very much a combat army, with multiple options to achieve that, and the lore is designed to do that.

TK however, have the best shooting in the game, can have some of the best magic phases in the game, and have GIANT STONE LIONCATS THAT BREATHE FIRE.


The vortex is okay, it's designed to be thematic, you don't want the lore for damage anyway. You want the buffs.

And the ability to take Light on an undead army is just incredible. It mitigates a glaring weakness. Couple that with all the tricks they can pull to dominate the magic phase, and you can make people afraid of the book.

Anyone who says that they're a bad book just plays it wrong. It's like people who say orcs and goblins are bad because they can't fight.

Speaking of that, is the Khemrian Warsphinx worth taking? I have a necrosphinx, and I was thinking of proxying until I get a warsphinx, but I don't know if they're that good or not.

Yes. Definitely. Not on their own though. If you take two or three, you have quite a lot of threat.

Oh, well I dunno if I wanna invest into that many of them. But also, can you use their breath attack in conjunction with its regular attacks, or does it replace it?

The Warsphinx`s breath attack, if you are in close combat, is used in conjunction to its regular attacks and its thunderstomp but you can still only use it once per game.

 KingGarland wrote:
The Warsphinx`s breath attack, if you are in close combat, is used in conjunction to its regular attacks and its thunderstomp but you can still only use it once per game.

Well then that's definitely worth taking.

 krodarklorr wrote:

 KingGarland wrote:
The Warsphinx`s breath attack, if you are in close combat, is used in conjunction to its regular attacks and its thunderstomp but you can still only use it once per game.

Well then that's definitely worth taking.

If memory serves the thundercrush replaces it. Which is what most people take the sphinxes for anyway.

 thedarkavenger wrote:
GIANT STONE LIONCATS THAT BREATHE FIRE.

...after that I sort of what to collect Tomb Kings

 therealsuperman wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:
GIANT STONE LIONCATS THAT BREATHE FIRE.

...after that I sort of what to collect Tomb Kings

Some of them are made of marble or gems.

Generalising is wrong

 krodarklorr wrote:

- Also, let Heirophant control transfer to another Nehekharan priest if the first dies.

This.

Also the fact that animated constructs can only heal one wound per magic phase, instead of one wound per spell.

 Micky wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

- Also, let Heirophant control transfer to another Nehekharan priest if the first dies.

This.

Also the fact that animated constructs can only heal one wound per magic phase, instead of one wound per spell.

You know what, this! I never thought about that, but it would make sense and still be a decent buff to them.

 Micky wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

- Also, let Heirophant control transfer to another Nehekharan priest if the first dies.

This.

Also the fact that animated constructs can only heal one wound per magic phase, instead of one wound per spell.

So you want them to be more like VC?

The whole point of the hierophant thing is, and always has been, a fluff point of view. It would serve them well to have it transfer, but they would lose one of the things that make them unique, It's like taking their chariots away.

Just a quick side-note: since you can't move through a Magical Vortex, Skullstorm can totally stop a unit in it's tracks. Not quite what the designers had in mind, I'm sure, but it turns a pretty sub-par spell into a straight-up amazing one.

 thedarkavenger wrote:

 Micky wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

- Also, let Heirophant control transfer to another Nehekharan priest if the first dies.

This.

Also the fact that animated constructs can only heal one wound per magic phase, instead of one wound per spell.

So you want them to be more like VC?

The whole point of the hierophant thing is, and always has been, a fluff point of view. It would serve them well to have it transfer, but they would lose one of the things that make them unique, It's like taking their chariots away.

The Heirophant thing is more along the lines of, fluff wise, why would another Nehekharan Priest not take over where the other one left off at? Would he just let the army crumble, and suffer the wrath of the Tomb King when he gets home? I would assume no.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Warpsolution wrote:
Just a quick side-note: since you can't move through a Magical Vortex, Skullstorm can totally stop a unit in it's tracks. Not quite what the designers had in mind, I'm sure, but it turns a pretty sub-par spell into a straight-up amazing one.

I actually never thought of that, that is true. Though, thedarkavenger had a good point. You're typically going to want the buffs from the lore anyway.

Buffs are nice. Hexes are equally nice. And a spell that completely stops enemy movement in an area is a pretty amazing Hex. The damage isn't great, but better to have the option than not.

If you roll up 'Storm, and you're good on your Sigs, I certainly wouldn't consider it a bad roll.

I've seen Tomb Kings bottle neck their opponents like that, so you can either (a) squeeze in a (non-Horde) unit between the Vortex and Impassable Terrain to face off against some snakes, or you can sit there and weather the storm of arrows, flaming skulls, and spells. Not great options.

I would love for some way to incant a buff spell protecting you from miscast, even if its once per game or limited to the lesser version of the spell. I've nuked my casters so many times just trying to move my army another measly 4 inches lol.

Also the fast cav should be allowed to act like fast cav.

 Opeth30 wrote:
I would love for some way to incant a buff spell protecting you from miscast, even if its once per game or limited to the lesser version of the spell. I've nuked my casters so many times just trying to move my army another measly 4 inches lol.

Also the fast cav should be allowed to act like fast cav.

Yeah, we have no defense against miscasts, which is weird if we're supposed to have one of the "best" magic phases. I also think our fast cav should be cheaper...

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Opeth30 wrote:
I would love for some way to incant a buff spell protecting you from miscast, even if its once per game or limited to the lesser version of the spell. I've nuked my casters so many times just trying to move my army another measly 4 inches lol.

Also the fast cav should be allowed to act like fast cav.

Yeah, we have no defense against miscasts, which is weird if we're supposed to have one of the "best" magic phases. I also think our fast cav should be cheaper...

If you take a lore of death a casket and maybe a heirotitan the TK magic phase can be brutal will all of the dice replenishment. In the previous book Tomb King magic was totally different than other armies (it was also written for a different edition). The spells couldn't miscast or irresistible force, but the way you had to go about casting led to some abusive things like screaming scull catapults firing 3 times a turn. I understand they needed to update their magic for the mechanics of 8th but it could have been done better. Maybe add an additional signature spell that allows the protection from miscast when casting buffs.

I agree with the cav point cost, the regular horsemen are laughable when compared to the archers.

 Opeth30 wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Opeth30 wrote:
I would love for some way to incant a buff spell protecting you from miscast, even if its once per game or limited to the lesser version of the spell. I've nuked my casters so many times just trying to move my army another measly 4 inches lol.

Also the fast cav should be allowed to act like fast cav.

Yeah, we have no defense against miscasts, which is weird if we're supposed to have one of the "best" magic phases. I also think our fast cav should be cheaper...

If you take a lore of death a casket and maybe a heirotitan the TK magic phase can be brutal will all of the dice replenishment. In the previous book Tomb King magic was totally different than other armies (it was also written for a different edition). The spells couldn't miscast or irresistible force, but the way you had to go about casting led to some abusive things like screaming scull catapults firing 3 times a turn. I understand they needed to update their magic for the mechanics of 8th but it could have been done better. Maybe add an additional signature spell that allows the protection from miscast when casting buffs.

I agree with the cav point cost, the regular horsemen are laughable when compared to the archers.

I actually like the regular horsemen, I just think they're way too expensive for what they do. And the archers even more so.

And I like the idea of the additional signature spell. Because, honestly, I rarely use the Desert Wind.

Hierophat rule is fine. TK have better LD overall than VC, typically every critical unit will have good ld, or be near the general except the skullapults. The free regen is meh, but what ever.

What I would like is increased mount options for all characters. Priest on chariot, prince on horse ect. King on snake, why not. Lore options increased would be nice.

I've played games where we could have allies, and a lvl2 beasts is a great fit Wyssans makes everything better and rest of the lore is pretty complimentary as well.

 Acardia wrote:
King on snake, why not.

I've played games where we could have allies, and a lvl2 beasts is a great fit Wyssans makes everything better and rest of the lore is pretty complimentary as well.

Well, because a King on a snake would be retardedly good, but doesn't fit with the fluff of the snakes at all, sadly.

Having more Lores would be cool, but I'm not sure what Lores would really make sense for them to have. Light and Death make sense. Maybe Heavens, or Fire.

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Acardia wrote:
King on snake, why not.

I've played games where we could have allies, and a lvl2 beasts is a great fit Wyssans makes everything better and rest of the lore is pretty complimentary as well.

Well, because a King on a snake would be retardedly good, but doesn't fit with the fluff of the snakes at all, sadly.

Having more Lores would be cool, but I'm not sure what Lores would really make sense for them to have. Light and Death make sense. Maybe Heavens, or Fire.

Well, they worship the sun. Fire and light make a lot of sense.

What's with this stuff about Miscast protection? Who has Miscast protection? Anyone who can take the Earthing Rod...or Life...or, to a lesser extent, a Ward save...what else is there?

Most armies don't have any extra miscast protection. And if your Heirophant blows up regularly when he's throwing 2-3 dice...that's unfortunate, but very unlikely. Got to strive for balance according to the average results, no matter what your recent luck happens to be.

How about Stalkers? How would you make them more usable?

Warpsolution wrote:


How about Stalkers? How would you make them more usable?

They aren't terrible in combat being str 5 but its the gaze attack that makes them cool. Perhaps change it from str 1 to 2 or 3? Or have them work similar to the bloodwrack medusa where its multi shots with killing blow still rolling against initiative.

Also how would you guys change Tomb Scorpions? There is a lich entombed within its body so some sort of bound spell could be cool. Or it could be used as a focus familiar to any lich within 24in or something. I don't really think its worth the points the way it is now.

 Opeth30 wrote:

Warpsolution wrote:


How about Stalkers? How would you make them more usable?

They aren't terrible in combat being str 5 but its the gaze attack that makes them cool. Perhaps change it from str 1 to 2 or 3? Or have them work similar to the bloodwrack medusa where its multi shots with killing blow still rolling against initiative.

Also how would you guys change Tomb Scorpions? There is a lich entombed within its body so some sort of bound spell could be cool. Or it could be used as a focus familiar to any lich within 24in or something. I don't really think its worth the points the way it is now.

I haven't gotten Stalkers yet, but I've wanted to use them. My girlfriend plays Lizardmen and has a big blob of Saurus Warriors, so I think that would be fun. >.< Though all of your suggestions are pretty good, and I agree S1 is pretty weak.

I like Tomb Scorpions, and I agree they're not really worth their points, but I dunno about giving them bound spells. They have Magic Resistance, which is supposed to represent the Liche Priest inside. Not sure what they could do besides just lower the cost. Nothing really wrong with the model.

The Medusa is exactly what I wanted the Stalkers to be. Less shots, sure, but the chance to smack themselves for D3 wounds is just absurd on such a costly model. I also think their base size is comically huge for a unit with a short-ranged shooting attack and semi-decent cc ability.

Army of Undeath fixed everything.

1) you don't crumble from loss of hierophant... actually, you don't even have a hierophant.
2) Since you don't have a hierophant, the requirement for the highest caster having lore of Nahekhara is also gone.
3) Everyone within 12" of the general can march.
4) Gained another lore (lore of undeath), which lets you tailor make new units.
5) Did I mention you can march?
6) Picked up a few new units, one of which is a S5 T5 monstrous infantry (units of 2 or more) which gives a bubble of -1 wound from losing combat. Stacked with a BSB, that would make constructs take 3 less wounds when losing combat; you could actually turn your flank to an opponent, absorb the charge and reform to face.

-Matt

Well, that makes the flying units benefit from the fly rule instead of just leaping their movement value. Also 16in move chariots!

 Opeth30 wrote:
Well, that makes the flying units benefit from the fly rule instead of just leaping their movement value. Also 16in move chariots!

The inability to march has been removed if within 12" of the general.
Chariots still can't march, it's in the rules for chariots.

Kind of like how when a black coach gains flying, it goes from moving 8" to moving 10"; not a huge improvement.

-Matt