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A little while ago I employed a commission painter to paint [and build] my Warhound Titan [Scars Miniature Madness, awesome job BTW]. With such an expensive kit, I wanted to make sure that it got the paint job it deserved. I'm a pretty average painter, and I knew that I would not be able to do this model justice.

However a couple of people in my gaming group couldn't understand why I would employ someone else to paint my models, and implied that it was somehow 'cheating' not to paint the model myself, or that I was doing the hobby wrong. So, should getting models commission painted be considered cheating? Is it acceptable in some cases but not others? Is it perfectly reasonable to commission others to paint my models as it's my money and I should spend it as I like? Interested to know your thoughts.

It's only cheating if you're entering the model(s) in a competition under your own name. Otherwise people can feth right off IMO.

That said, I paint my own stuff because I like doing it.

I would say its only cheating if you were part of a campaign or league or something that awarded painting points. Not 40k related but for example Warmachine/Hordes has the Journeyman League that has points earned for painting new models; I would argue it's "cheating" to get everything commission painted in that case.

Depends how you define cheating I guess. Aside from the already mentioned tournament or league that awards points for painting (in which case, yeah, I think it's pretty easy to call it cheating). In normal circumstances though, you're paying someone else to save yourself the time and effort of painting and/or to produce a higher quality work than you yourself could paint, even though that doesn't really gain you any "in game" benefit, I could totally see how some people might consider it "cheating".

I, however, don't think it's cheating. It simply fills a hole of people who want painted models and have the money to get someone else to paint them and not the time to paint the models themselves.

It isn't cheating unless you claim credit for it yourself, the it becomes a little dubious.

I'm a fair painter, one of the better in my group when on my game, with no false modesty, and I've often had a small crowd gather when I've unpacked a new big mini for the first time, and not just the once I've heard "yeah, but you use an airbrush don't you?" Like being able to use a notoriously finicky tool which still requires practice to use is cheating!

I suspect this comes from a similar place, which is people see some thing that is beyond their means, either financially or technically, and therefore need to reconcile it with a reason that they cannot achieve a similar standard without making themselves feel inadequate. This isn't a criticism as such, I just think its human nature.

No you're fine as long as your not enrolling it in a painting contest as your own work. Some of us are atrocious painters who can't understand color scheme to save our lives, some of us simply don't have time to build, paint, and play the game, and some of us are just lazy (and that's ok, this is a hobby we do for fun). There are probably other good reasons too. The point is that it doesn't matter if your army is hand painted, commissioned, or just grey. None of it really matters because it's a tabletop game. The only thing you should not do is claim that the work is your own. The artists probably worked hard on painting and deserves credit for it.

Everything I have had done the last 10 years has been done by someone other then my self. I have entered them into things but I have never been asked who painted this. I have even asked the people that paint for me if they want it known they did it and they have always told me it yours you paid for my services and it was completed. A lot of the time i will have them painted and go back in and do some weathering and highlights.

 tyrannosaurus wrote:

However a couple of people in my gaming group couldn't understand why I would employ someone else to paint my models, and implied that it was somehow 'cheating' not to paint the model myself, or that I was doing the hobby wrong.

From the Can't Win For Losing Dept. - there's that other thread about how you're "doing it wrong" if you leave your minis unpainted, as well. I have to say I'm curious to see the venn diagram where the two groups of people overlap. Basically in a hobby that's this detail-oriented and particular, you're going to find (lots) of people who have a serious problem with everything. So: do what you like, do what's the most fun, it's your money/time/effort/etc.

Fireraven wrote:
Everything I have had done the last 10 years has been done by someone other then my self. I have entered them into things but I have never been asked who painted this. I have even asked the people that paint for me if they want it known they did it and they have always told me it yours you paid for my services and it was completed. A lot of the time i will have them painted and go back in and do some weathering and highlights.

if it were one of my paintjobs entered into an event that rewards painting, i would definitely want it known that it was my work...
simply because i put a lot of time in doing research, prepping, building, and painting...
it may sound silly, but for me, this is not a hobby, this is my artform...
painting minis is also my job, and as such, i want to be the best i can be at my job, as well as show that i can compete with the best in the world...

if one of my customers went back in and touched up one of my paintjobs, that is their perogative, but i would be sad, as that means i didn't do my job right...
i do mostly converted and custom figures...
my job, as i see it, is to take the client's idea, wring every bit of his vision out of him, and then proceed to produce something that surpasses their wildest dreams...

as to the OP, obviously, it is in my best interest to say that commission painting is not cheating...
really though, my customers allow me to create a unique version of known characters that are guaranteed to help me pay the rent...
when i paint for eBay, their is no guarantee that it will sell, and when i paint for companies, i have to stick to stock models, so i say commission painting is awesome...

cheers
jah

Some people look down upon you if you have unpainted models.

Some people look down upon you if your painting isn't to a good standard.

Some people look down on you if other people painted your models.

Well it has absolutely jack to do with them and anyone who looks down upon you for any of the three above points is a self-righteous pompous pr-ick, in my oh so humble opinion.

Is it in the rules for judging? If not... It's legal.

A painted mini is a painted mini. I've seen plenty of nicely done models that people have had others paint for them, and I did my friend's entire Fallschirmjager company for Flames of War, as well as his Tigers and StuGs (let me tell you, painting camoflauge on a 15mm miniature can be a pain in the ass, but the resulting look is pretty cool).

As long as you're not entering it into a competition or trying to get points in a slow-grow league by passing it off as your own work, I can't see why it'd be considered 'cheating.'

There's probably some jealousy involved I'd say. They're envious of either your sweet looking model and/or your ability/willingness to pay to improve your hobby while they feel they do it "the hard way" (for les result most likely). There's no legit gripe there imo unless as mentioned you enter it into a competition as your own work. I got into the hobby for modeling, though gaming has become a lot more important to me since discovering games I really liked so will paint them myself but can definitely understand why you'd want to pay someone to do it for you to do a better job than you could, or because you can't justify the time required.

Cheating implies you are doing something wrong. Who are you wronging? Just look at all the posts of people who complain about unpainted minis. You are not wronging them, that is for sure. You are not entering any competitions with painting involved, so you are not wronging anyone there as well.

No it's not cheating. It's not anymore cheating than people who play X-wing or Star Trek Attack Wing. Those are pre painted minis. No cheating at all there.

So no you are not cheating. People are just jealous and have to put you down a bit for having something so awesome. When ever someone puts someone down, they are jealous of what ever reason or need to put themselves up higher for what ever reason.

No way is it cheating. I'd rather some one pay to get their stuff painted than play vs boring grey unpainted plastic.

I have 50k points of GKs, 30k Necrons, and 30k Tyranids. I paint what I can myself but if I didn't get help more than half my stuff wouldn't be painted.

I wish I could enter the models I had gotten painted for me under the painters name. He did such a good job.

No way. I have a good buddy who does commission work, and everyone loves it. I would never hold it against anyone for getting them painted, I feel it shows their love of the hobby for wanting to have great stuff! My favorite piece I've seen done so far is my buddies DE Xmas army and a space marine painted up like Captain America!

As said before, the only cheating would be entering it under your own name. People who think you're cheating are most likely just jealous.

Huh strange, never got anything commissioned myself, but cant say I've ever considered it cheating for others who have. A rather odd notion if I may say so myself

 jreilly89 wrote:
No way. I have a good buddy who does commission work, and everyone loves it. I would never hold it against anyone for getting them painted, I feel it shows their love of the hobby for wanting to have great stuff! My favorite piece I've seen done so far is my buddies DE Xmas army and a space marine painted up like Captain America!

As said before, the only cheating would be entering it under your own name. People who think you're cheating are most likely just jealous.

if they're jealous, and ork/salamander/DA players, would they be... green with envy?

Your models, your money, your choice. Gonna echo the sentiments of the thread so far so I'm not just posting my horrid joke.

 tyrannosaurus wrote:
A little while ago I employed a commission painter to paint [and build] my Warhound Titan [Scars Miniature Madness, awesome job BTW]. With such an expensive kit, I wanted to make sure that it got the paint job it deserved. I'm a pretty average painter, and I knew that I would not be able to do this model justice.

However a couple of people in my gaming group couldn't understand why I would employ someone else to paint my models, and implied that it was somehow 'cheating' not to paint the model myself, or that I was doing the hobby wrong. So, should getting models commission painted be considered cheating? Is it acceptable in some cases but not others? Is it perfectly reasonable to commission others to paint my models as it's my money and I should spend it as I like? Interested to know your thoughts.

When I bought my Morkanaught, I knew my skill level was not going to do the model justice. So I hired someone to do it. Is it cheating? Tell them to go screw themselves. It's your model, and you can do what you want with it. Would it be any more 'cheating' to say "Screw it!" and just drop it in paint, roll it around in multiple colors and put it on the table?

I'll be doing the same with my stompa. I'm fine with my Kanz, Dredds and infantry looking Okish due to my low level of skill. But my BIG stuff, I want to look GOOD. And NO ONE will make me feel bad for doing so.

I get paid to paint stuff for people so I would not say it is cheating.

Like others have said, if you enter something someone else painted in to a competition and claim it as your own, that is wrong on multiple levels. I've seen someone submit photos of a painted army to a website claiming they did the work themselves only to the person who actually painted it show in the comments section. Stuff like this happens at the larger painting competitions still, but the cheats are usually found out.

But hey, they're your models so do with them what you want!

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
It's only cheating if you're entering the model(s) in a competition under your own name. Otherwise people can feth right off IMO.

That said, I paint my own stuff because I like doing it.

Its not cheating, if you paid good money for it to look good to me it is the same as painting it, to say that you cant take credit after paying extra because you want it to look good is silly. No its not cheating, I do the same thing because I want my army to look good and I do not have the time or patience to paint as well as I want the models to look.

If they claim cheating for you comissioning a paint job, then they're just jealous of your new model.

Who the hell tries to order around that what you should do with your OWN miniatures?

I have a personal theory in regards to painted models, and that is that they only work at half capacity on the TT until they've gotten a paintjob, and the better the paintjob, the more fully the model is being applied.

I don't like half-arsed models. They don't do anything for me.

Commission away!

 gmaleron wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
It's only cheating if you're entering the model(s) in a competition under your own name. Otherwise people can feth right off IMO.

That said, I paint my own stuff because I like doing it.

Its not cheating, if you paid good money for it to look good to me it is the same as painting it, to say that you cant take credit after paying extra because you want it to look good is silly. No its not cheating, I do the same thing because I want my army to look good and I do not have the time or patience to paint as well as I want the models to look.

Sorry, entering models you paid someone to paint in a painting contest is cheating. No respectable contest allows it. Hell, no local game shop contest I've seen allows it.

It's morally wrong and ruins the spirit of competition.

If paying someone to paint a model is cheating, using a taxi or a bus is also cheating.

Now using them to drive you in a race is cheating.

If it means fewer grey plastic warriors on the table, sign me up.

It is no more cheating than a person paints but never plays.

 tyrannosaurus wrote:
A little while ago I employed a commission painter to paint [and build] my Warhound Titan [Scars Miniature Madness, awesome job BTW]. With such an expensive kit, I wanted to make sure that it got the paint job it deserved. I'm a pretty average painter, and I knew that I would not be able to do this model justice.

However a couple of people in my gaming group couldn't understand why I would employ someone else to paint my models, and implied that it was somehow 'cheating' not to paint the model myself, or that I was doing the hobby wrong. So, should getting models commission painted be considered cheating? Is it acceptable in some cases but not others? Is it perfectly reasonable to commission others to paint my models as it's my money and I should spend it as I like? Interested to know your thoughts.

If you entered it into a painting comp then yeah you are cheating.

Otherwise feth no. Your models do what you want with them. I wouldn't employ someone else to paint my models because I enjoy painting myself, but you are not me. No one should impose my their own personal opinions on the hobby onto someone else.

If you are happy with your models then who cares. Some people are far to willing to judge others over petty bs.

Clearly, not sculpting your own models could be considered cheating if not painting your own models is cheating.