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Jon Regul, aka Yakface of DakkaDakka.com, is back in the 3rd chair!

Jon has a long history with Games Workshop's Warhammer 40,000 especially when it comes to competitive play. We chat with him for a nice long bit in this megasode! What's new in 7th edition, how does it change the game...for better or worse?

All that and our other not-too-horrible segments including:

- Total Fan Girl
- Do You Ever Notice
- The Hollywood Minute
- News
- & More

Link to episode:
http://www.thed6generation.com//d6g-ep-152-warhammer-40000-7th-edition-detailed-review

Please let us know what you thought of the show!

Great podcast, as usual. I really enjoyed Yakface's comments and thoughts on 7th Edition. Actually, I think it was the old 40K 5th Edition episode (way back in 2008) that got me into the podcast....

I had a great time seeing everyone in person at GenCon - that was a blast. Very glad that Raef made it, and I got to talk to Nicole and hear about her recent travels too. I was sort of worried that someone was going to kick us out of that bigger room, but luckily we were all good.... Got some great swag (mostly books), so thanks you guys.

It would be great to get you guys up to Seattle for PAX Prime one year, (I know its probably too soon after GenCon).

Anyway, looking forward to next episode.

Mez


Automatically Appended Next Post:
***

One more thing for Yakface -- with your enthusiasm for 40k waning, have you had a chance to check out Relic Knights? I just bought the rulebook and it looks fun and fast. I wasn't part of the Kickstarter, so just found out about the game recently.

I played a demo at Pax Prime and the gameplay is very dynamic and fun.

Mez

Going to be frank, this is the first episode I shut off an walked away from completely (and I listened to the episode on copyright law).

It comes down to this in my mind; your stated goal is to review games you like. You play the game, you list what you like about it and then you rate it based off of your experience. You form your opinion and that is why I listen-because I want to hear your opinion. This episode you handed that over to someone else who produced an overall negative review (yes Yakface is an icon of the community and his opinions are legitimate per his point of view-that's not the issue here). When you pile on enough "disappointment", even if it isn't yours, it becomes hate.

The D6G guys have the best gaming podcast there is. Do I agree with their general magpie "Ooh shiny!" Syndrome? No. However, Yakface is a uniquely qualified member of the community. Their review was thorough and negative. Some products deserve a review and negativity. They can't all be positive or kind.

The guys know the industry and they know a bad game when they play it. You may not agree, but they have the right to call a game crap if it is. I sensed less hate and vastly more disappointment for a game system they all once loved. Yakface not playing competitively is a huge thing.

 SpookyVeez wrote:
Going to be frank, this is the first episode I shut off an walked away from completely (and I listened to the episode on copyright law).

It comes down to this in my mind; your stated goal is to review games you like. You play the game, you list what you like about it and then you rate it based off of your experience. You form your opinion and that is why I listen-because I want to hear your opinion. This episode you handed that over to someone else who produced an overall negative review (yes Yakface is an icon of the community and his opinions are legitimate per his point of view-that's not the issue here). When you pile on enough "disappointment", even if it isn't yours, it becomes hate.

They like 40K. This episode examined 7th edition of 40K, which I found very insightful.

I didn't find Yakface's comments overly negative - they were honest and critical, but not hateful.

Disappointment is not hateful.

Mez

 SpookyVeez wrote:
Going to be frank, this is the first episode I shut off an walked away from completely (and I listened to the episode on copyright law).

It comes down to this in my mind; your stated goal is to review games you like. You play the game, you list what you like about it and then you rate it based off of your experience. You form your opinion and that is why I listen-because I want to hear your opinion. This episode you handed that over to someone else who produced an overall negative review (yes Yakface is an icon of the community and his opinions are legitimate per his point of view-that's not the issue here). When you pile on enough "disappointment", even if it isn't yours, it becomes hate.

Really sorry you felt that way. I do totally understand though. 40K is still a one-of-a-kind setting and the 7th edition rules appeal to a LOT of people. I would never try to dissuade anyone who likes 7th edition from their point of view...just for me and who I am, 6th edition was a move away from what I was looking for personally and 7th edition continued down that road.

Since the D6G has been around, I've been helping out doing the 40K edition reviews, and in many ways early on I tried to present the positive counterpoint. I still believe that I tried to present my opinions as just my opinions and still focus on reasons why the game can and still is great (just not for me), but for future edition reviews of 40K, it is probably a good idea for me to step aside and let someone else who is still loving it to give their viewpoint.

You're right that the D6G doesn't review games they don't like, but 40K is still the big, bad miniature game on the block, so it does behoove them to acknowledge when it has a new edition published. As I said, traditionally it has been me that comes on and helps out with that...so I think that's just how it all worked out. There certainly wasn't any plan ahead of time to try to pile-on 'disappointment' in any way shape or form.

It isn't hate to call a spade a spade.

GW is public, which means it has a legal obligation to act like a money eating Tyranid.

As long as customers will keep buying whatever they put out, they MUST keep putting stuff out for people to buy.

The truth of the matter is that other private miniature companies have come along and advanced the standards for wargames. They lack the legal obligations to maximize profits, and merely need to make money while being free to make the games they want to make how they want to make them.

It isn't hate. It is just a disappointment that GW has been infected with Money-Tyranid DNA and is slowly and steadily growing larger and larger horns and fangs and expressing an insatiable uncontrollable imperative to devour all the money.

You can't feed Tyranids a steak and then expect them to not try and eat your arm because they've had enough biomass. It doesn't work like that. Tyranids are not symbiotic.

At the end of the day, GW is going to publish rules that are entirely subservient to maximizing profits. It isn't the game that they want to make, it is the game they HAVE to make. The harvest of the money-mass overrides all.

It isn't hate to realize that a Tyranid is going to Tyranid, and you can't have an interaction with a Tyranid if you don't want to constantly find yourself on the menu in some new way.

I have no problem with Yakface's opinions - they represent the thoughts of someone who enjoys a particular thing about the game, and a particular way to play it.

If the current edition moves away from this, then I feel sorry for Yakface, but there are a ton of other perspectives.

I personally still like 7th edition, and have enjoyed both competitive and narrative games, so yay me.

My biggest problem with this episode, and it is the first episode of the D6G which really irritated me (because normally I love it), was the way that Russ seemed to positively take delight in pointing out the negative aspects of the game as he or Yakface saw it.

"Let's get to the negatives..."

A real departure from his normally (relatively) balanced, enthusiastic reviews. I may be wrong, but I really felt like Russ had decided before he read the rules or played a game (I'm not even sure he had played 7th when he did the review?), that he didn't like it.

I'm still a huge D6G fan, and still respect Russ and his opinions, but I felt this element of the show was a bit of a let down.

I'm sorry guys. Please keep it up though - this is totally designed to be constructive criticism!

Hazrat

@Warboss Hazrat - I kinda got that feeling about the glee at the negativity as well. However, i don't think it really changed my thoughts that Russ, Craig, and Yakface did a decent job of looking at the game. I didn't play any 6th ed and didn't actually get the rulebook until Christmas this past year and I've been into 40K since i played Rogue Trader back in my middle school days. They pretty much looked at it from the point of view of people who love the setting, but the game has sort of passed by now.

As far as the overall episode, i think i fall in line with Craig, this would be a fun beer and pretzel's game I'd play with specific friends who I knew had the same idea of a "fun game" as me. I think that GW has finally put the days of a fun pick-up game at a store behind them with the rules glut and the balance issues. I couldn't imagine trying to go to a game store to play a random opponent and having to figure out how we were going to play rules or flavor wise. It just doesn't seem feasible.

This may actually be the first edition of the game i don't actually pick up.

Even looking past whatever slant the reviewers may have had, negative or positive, I still think it would have been a help to anyone with at least a passing interest in 40K.

Sorry for the rambling post

Hey Everyone,

Thanks for the honest feedback, we really appreciate it. Sorry if I came across as someone who had some schadenfreude for 40k players' challenges with 7th edition.

As you all know, I have no small amount of history with the game, and even as far back as D6G Episode 1 I blast the game in our GW vs PP debate. So I'm far from an unbiased authority.

That said, I think we did try to take an honest look at what the game provides. We have gotten a LOT of feedback on this episode, and it's about 50/50 of those who enjoyed it and those who felt we violated our "no hate" policy. I do feel good about the emails from folks we got stating "I want to try the game now based on your review" so at least on some level we messaged what 40k 7th does right.

Still, I think we owe listeners a thoughtful response, so in the next lost chapter we'll be reviewing the feedback we got and commenting on it and why we took the approach we did.

I want to thank Jon (aka Yakface) for coming on and providing such a thorough analysis. He really was fantastic, and I feel very bad if any of my comments colored is objective commentary.

Well with all this drama, how could I not give this episode a listen?

Cheers for the post here yak and Russ and for taking the feedback well.

I particularly like this quote from our Patreon page:

I would love a line graph of points of the show as they reflect how Russ was feeling about the new rules "SCORING DROP PODS" *line plummets*

I would love a line graph of points of the show as they reflect how Russ was feeling about the new rules "SCORING DROP PODS" *line plummets*

Lol. Pretty accurate, too, I'll bet!

I enjoyed the show even if you and Jon don't enjoy 7th edition. It's a little ironic for me, as Yakface used to be a member of my local 40K group here in Silicon Valley (MANY years ago). I stopped playing 40K towards the end of 3rd edition and have only returned to the game in the last few months to find that Jon is now dropping out! We're out of sync for the last decade, apparently.

I am fortunate in that the people I am playing 40K with will agree to simply ignore the "dumb" aspects of 7th edition. Transports will not have Objective Secured, we won't be summoning free units of daemons, and if we draw a Tactical Objective card that is unachievable, we'll immediately draw another one. We'll play the game with the goal of having fun and if something in the rules seems oddly incongruous, we will probably just avoid it.

I don't plan to play 40K competitively, so I'm not that worried about it, but I totally get the chagrin both Russ and Jon shared. GW has long been in the habit of making decisions that are frequently at odds with the desires of their customer base, which is a shame. Regardless, I enjoy the fiction, art and miniatures they produce, so don't mind dealing with their rules to enjoy the universe they've created.