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This is just a curiosity question (I don't intend to start a SM army any time soon so 'play what you like' isn't particularly relevant). I was browsing through the SM codex while trying to help a friend decide on what army he wants, and, to me at least, the Chapter Tactics don't seem very well balanced against each other.

Off the top of my head take something like Iron Hands (FNP 6+ for every model) vs. let's say Salamanders (some stuff with flamers, and I don't think I've ever seen a flamer in someone's army list on dakka if it wasn't mandatory and 1 master-crafted item per character).

Since I'm still very new at the game, I'm curious: are these abilities as imbalanced as they seem to me? and which chapter(s) would you say are the best from a pure mechanics standpoint?

Some are certainly better than others, and whilst you'll mostly see Iron Hands and White Scar in Dakka's army list sub-forum, each of the Tactics in the Codex can be used effectively.

Arguably, Templars came out of it worst, though they do get access to Crusader squads. Raven Guard tend towards close-ranged shooting and attempted "Terminators in a Scouting Land Raider" shenanigans. Salamanders get used in Pods mostly (whilst it is difficult to remember that they can re-roll saves vs. flamers, twin-linked flamers can be very effective against hordes). Ultramarines tactics either lead towards a balanced "bit of everything" list, or podding armies focusing on the Tactical doct (using Marneus to get two goes at it).

If your group is open to them, Forgeworld have a large number of Chapter Tactics as well, link to free download: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/B/FWchaptertactics-v2.pdf

What about Imperial Fists? Reroll 1s on bolters and Tank Hunters for devastators seems pretty powerful to me.

LordBlades wrote:
What about Imperial Fists? Reroll 1s on bolters and Tank Hunters for devastators seems pretty powerful to me.

They work pretty well. I've used IF once or twice. The first was against Tyranids and lucky rolling meant the rerolls basically did nothing. The second I used Lysander and Kantor, some Tacticals, Tact Termies, one of each flyer, a Razorback, a Captain, a Scout Squad, 2 Devs with 2xHB and 2xPC and 2xLC and MM and ML respectively. Also used an Ironclad, a Command Squad with all the gubz and Honour Guard with Standard of the Emperor Ascendent. I was playing 6th Ed vs Orks 4th Ed Codex and it worked out pretty well. I reckon Kantor+Sternguard+Loads of Bolters and HB/Hurricane Bolter DevCents will work well together, with a GravCent Sarge thrown in.

LordBlades wrote:
What about Imperial Fists? Reroll 1s on bolters and Tank Hunters for devastators seems pretty powerful to me.

Every time I talk about CT's, I always forget one... Not always the same one though...

IF are good tactics, bolt-weaponry is prolific, and Tank-Hunting Lascannons are always fun. It's similar to Ultra's IMO.

I would say (not Inc FW) in order from most powerfull to least:

Whitescars. Almost army wide hit and run is amazing, born in the saddle is pretty awsome too. Add the khan and get scout for all bikes and DTs and you begin to wonder what Raven Guard actually get to make up for all the rest.

Iron Hands. IWND on vehicles and shield eternal chapter masters is amazing. Army wide 6+ fnp is not to be sniffed at either. The addition of 1 to blessings of the omnissiah roll is just icing on the cake.

Imperial Fists. They are in the top three simply for the fact that devestators and centurion devs get tank hunter. Tank hunter is one of the best USRs in the entire game! Basically having the ammo dump rules apply to all bolter weaponary can be exceptionally strong too.

Ultramarines. The ability to get relentless devs + reroll snap shots one turn, fleet fast attack + rerolling charge range for everyone else another turn, and rerolling to hit tacs + ammo dump effects for everyone else another turn is very strong. With Calgar you can use one of these twice... plus UCT unlocks tigurius!

Salamanders. Rerolling to wound and pens on flamers (and suffering less wounds from them), plus free master crafted weapons is pretty nice... however it's when you add Vulkan for twinlinked melta and put them all in drop pods when it becomes really nasty.

Raven Guard. Scout and turn one stealth is ok... nothing in comparison to other CT though. With scout you get outflank so that's a bonus I suppose. The bonus assault marines ger isn't great when you consider how poor assault marines actually are in an assault for 'dedicated' assaulters.

And who's that down there...

...

... oh its Black Templars! Crusader squads are good in the fact that they can have a spec and heavy in a 5 man squad, that they can have a LR as an OS DT, and the option of a hidden powerfist. Accept any challenge is ok, I guess. Not great since it only applies to one model in the squad. Adamantium will is good against psychic attacks but won't help against invisibility or buffing psychic powers. Fleet on just the run move is a dud buff. Whilst all their special characters are absolutely pants and they can't take librarians!

I feel the main issue with BT is that you can't build your army around any part of the CT. It's all so very situational.

Really, the chapters themselves should impact your choice more than the rules. Why pick a chapter you aren't into (or more importantly that you might dislike painting) just for a slight bump in chapter tactic effectiveness?

I play a successor to the Imperial Fists, so I use the Imperial Fists. Around here, marine players don't just pick their chapter tactics and play. If you are playing with a Dark Angel army, you need to use the Dark Angel rules. If you have black templar, you use their tactics. If you made a successor, fine, pick their founder and use those tactics, but don't change them every week.

IF tank hunter devastator squads are awesome. The bolted drill is just great as an added bonus.

My only issue with the IF trait is that it doesn't apply to Sternguard special ammo. There is a Pedro who makes the Sternguard scoring, but unfortunately they do not benefit from his tactic.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 PhillyT wrote:

I play a successor to the Imperial Fists, so I use the Imperial Fists.

Yep, same here.

 PhillyT wrote:
Around here, marine players don't just pick their chapter tactics and play. If you are playing with a Dark Angel army, you need to use the Dark Angel rules. If you have black templar, you use their tactics. If you made a successor, fine, pick their founder and use those tactics, but don't change them every week.

Damn, that would be annoying. It's like saying "you chose a warscythe for that guy last game, he has to have one this game too" even if you had it magnetised so you could swap them. Having the colour of a model limit what it can select from the codex... that's just horrible.

 PhillyT wrote:
If you are playing with a Dark Angel army, you need to use the Dark Angel rules. If you have black templar, you use their tactics. If you made a successor, fine, pick their founder and use those tactics, but don't change them every week.

.

Hahahahaha

No.

The colour you decided to paint your Marines should not ever dictate what rules you're "allowed" to use. I change up my lists frequently and try out all the different CT's, If you play greenwing DA, you have a terrible Codex/substitute CT, or you may play Black Templars and have a very mediocre CT. These are perfectly understandable and common reasons for changing the CT.

 Yonan wrote:

 PhillyT wrote:
Around here, marine players don't just pick their chapter tactics and play. If you are playing with a Dark Angel army, you need to use the Dark Angel rules. If you have black templar, you use their tactics. If you made a successor, fine, pick their founder and use those tactics, but don't change them every week.

Damn, that would be annoying. It's like saying "you chose a warscythe for that guy last game, he has to have one this game too" even if you had it magnetised so you could swap them. Having the colour of a model limit what it can select from the codex... that's just horrible.

Agreed. Im painting a Sons of Orar force as I love their scheme. It won't stop me from using the Iron Hands' chapter tactics though, especially given that I only play in friendly games.

 PhillyT wrote:
Really, the chapters themselves should impact your choice more than the rules. Why pick a chapter you aren't into (or more importantly that you might dislike painting) just for a slight bump in chapter tactic effectiveness?

As I said in the OP I'm not interested in starting a marine army ATM, I was just skimming through the book and the Chapter Tactics didn't feel exactly equal to me so....I asked.

Considering these Chapter Tactics are arbitrary rules laid out less than a year ago, 25 years into the hobby...

It's kinda silly to suggest that people should be shoehorned into playing with a specific set of them simply because of the color they painted their models.

LordBlades wrote:
What about Imperial Fists? Reroll 1s on bolters and Tank Hunters for devastators seems pretty powerful to me.

Sentinels of Terra makes them even better:

- ALL bolt weapons are twin-linked at half range - this includes bolt pistols, boltguns, heavy bolters and storm bolters! Boy, this boost makes en masse deep strike lists interesting! However, this excludes the Sternguard special ammunition (too bad, but expected from Gee Dubs)
- MUCH better warlord traits (I can get IWND or Orbital Bombardment for my any HQ? AWESOME!)
- If you like to emphasize on tactical squads and Librarians, then there are nice boost to them too; a relic that gives +1 warp charge and re-rolls failed psychic tests sounds like the Libby's gonna bring his friend along... called PAIN!
Also, one sergeant in the army can be upgraded a named sergeant with a CAPTAIN'S STATLINE? By His name, yes! Oh, and the squad where he is, changes from Troops into HQ.
- If you're really into Centurions ('cause I don't - I hate 'em), now you can switch them into the Elites slot. This is the main factor of which this supplement revolves around, as you might expect. Marketing the new models - they had to make a mini-codex for 'em.

 Yonan wrote:

 PhillyT wrote:
Around here, marine players don't just pick their chapter tactics and play. If you are playing with a Dark Angel army, you need to use the Dark Angel rules. If you have black templar, you use their tactics. If you made a successor, fine, pick their founder and use those tactics, but don't change them every week.

Damn, that would be annoying. It's like saying "you chose a warscythe for that guy last game, he has to have one this game too" even if you had it magnetised so you could swap them. Having the colour of a model limit what it can select from the codex... that's just horrible.

If you paint your army as ultramarines and have all the symbols etc but jump tactics every other game that is just lazy. It isn't like war gear. The traits were intended to to add variation to the chapters. If a person is so competitive as to min max their traits to beat the opponents, whatever. Traits aren't that impact full. But we decided that you paint your army, pick your successor, and stick with it. Don't use imperial fists with your infantry list then flip to iron hands for your vehicle list.

It's all so desparate to be honest.

 PhillyT wrote:

If you paint your army as ultramarines and have all the symbols etc but jump tactics every other game that is just lazy.

I don't see why. Surely you can like one paint scheme, but not the Chapter Tactics that would normally accompany it? Or, hell, what if you just want to experiment a bit and try out some different chapter tactics? Are you really arguing that people shouldn't be allowed to do this unless they first repaint their entire army? I mean, surely a lot of people will have chosen their faction before it 'mattered' in this way - since there were no chapter tactics in the previous book.

Or, what if their army uses a paint scheme that isn't associated with any of the existing chapters? Or, hell, what if they're converted to look like a Star Wars army or somesuch?

Also, would you apply this sort of restriction to other armies - presumably denying other aspects that don't fit their colour scheme?

What if you've done Space Marines since before this Codex, and took GW's own advice to count the Special Characters as your own guys in your army, with a different name and paint and use the rules you want, like Lysander? What if, like me, you spent hard time converting up Special Characters that don't "go" with your chapter because your Chapter has no SC or is a successor and you now have to go buy more stuff toget new SC? Why should anyone be penalised for that, especially if they did that under the last Codec which GW said was perfectly fine, and be forced in GW's money-grubbing schemes?

Hey, it's up to each group to determine their own WYSIWYG.

A kHorne bezerker isn't a thousand sun and an ultramarine isn't a raven guard.

 PhillyT wrote:
Hey, it's up to each group to determine their own WYSIWYG.

A kHorne bezerker isn't a thousand sun and an ultramarine isn't a raven guard.

A khorne berzerker has an axe, not a bolter. He has khorne symbols on his model diametrically opposed to tzeentch.
The other is the exact same model but painted blue instead of black.

So only people like me who play Exorcists are fine as we are told by Forgeworld to use a CT of our choice, everyone else has to strip their army before he can use different one?

That way you discourage new players even more to paint their armies...

 Yonan wrote:

 PhillyT wrote:
Hey, it's up to each group to determine their own WYSIWYG.

A kHorne bezerker isn't a thousand sun and an ultramarine isn't a raven guard.

A khorne berzerker has an axe, not a bolter. He has khorne symbols on his model diametrically opposed to tzeentch.
The other is the exact same model but painted blue instead of black.

I think the point he's trying to make is that a model that is clearly marked with the symbols of the chapter should only be used to represent that chapter. Sure, a blue marine isn't necessarily an Ultramarine, but a blue marine covered in Ultramarine symbols is an Ultramarine.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

 Yonan wrote:

 PhillyT wrote:
Hey, it's up to each group to determine their own WYSIWYG.

A kHorne bezerker isn't a thousand sun and an ultramarine isn't a raven guard.

A khorne berzerker has an axe, not a bolter. He has khorne symbols on his model diametrically opposed to tzeentch.
The other is the exact same model but painted blue instead of black.

I think the point he's trying to make is that a model that is clearly marked with the symbols of the chapter should only be used to represent that chapter. Sure, a blue marine isn't necessarily an Ultramarine, but a blue marine covered in Ultramarine symbols is an Ultramarine.

I can well understand the OP's beef, as I think it mainly revolves around seeing the constant abuses of shenanigans like:

1. A Marine player paints their army as Ultramarines, including adding all the appropriate chapter icons, squad markings, etc...

2. Their first game, they play them as CT: Ultramarines.
Their very next game, instead they decide, "oh I'm playing against 'Nids now instead of CSM's, so today I'm 'counting as' CT: Salamanders"
Then the marine player's next game out, they decide to play their Ultras as CT: Imperial Fists in order to get the buffs to their Centurians and Tank Hunting Devies.
Next time, they bring a mechanised list and thus turn up with CT: Iron Hands for their so-called 'Ultramarines'
When the marine player goes back to say a Drop Pod list, they against turn around and use the Salamanders doctrine.

On and on and on, every single or near every single game, these "Ultramarines" are simply a paint scheme cherry picking the best CT for the relevant foe or list, instead of being used mostly as actual Ultramarines!

It's highly annoying more than anything, and speaks more to one's goal of putting pure "winning at toy soldiers" above everything else. No other army really gets to anything remotely similar.
I doubt anyone beyond the most hyperactive fluff bunny purist would object to the odd time of playing Ultras as say CT: Iron Hands or White Scars or whatever when it's relevant. (ie: using Scars doctrine to play a 6th company biker/land speeder army, or even using Codex: Blood Angels for a pure 8th Company Assault army)
But when your "Ultramarines" are essentially 'every chapter under the sun BUT ultramarines', don't be surprised when someone grumbles about the real motives behind the chapter-hopping.

Experiment 626 wrote:

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

 Yonan wrote:

 PhillyT wrote:
Hey, it's up to each group to determine their own WYSIWYG.

A kHorne bezerker isn't a thousand sun and an ultramarine isn't a raven guard.

A khorne berzerker has an axe, not a bolter. He has khorne symbols on his model diametrically opposed to tzeentch.
The other is the exact same model but painted blue instead of black.

I think the point he's trying to make is that a model that is clearly marked with the symbols of the chapter should only be used to represent that chapter. Sure, a blue marine isn't necessarily an Ultramarine, but a blue marine covered in Ultramarine symbols is an Ultramarine.

I can well understand the OP's beef, as I think it mainly revolves around seeing the constant abuses of shenanigans like:

1. A Marine player paints their army as Ultramarines, including adding all the appropriate chapter icons, squad markings, etc...

2. Their first game, they play them as CT: Ultramarines.
Their very next game, instead they decide, "oh I'm playing against 'Nids now instead of CSM's, so today I'm 'counting as' CT: Salamanders"
Then the marine player's next game out, they decide to play their Ultras as CT: Imperial Fists in order to get the buffs to their Centurians and Tank Hunting Devies.
Next time, they bring a mechanised list and thus turn up with CT: Iron Hands for their so-called 'Ultramarines'
When the marine player goes back to say a Drop Pod list, they against turn around and use the Salamanders doctrine.

On and on and on, every single or near every single game, these "Ultramarines" are simply a paint scheme cherry picking the best CT for the relevant foe or list, instead of being used mostly as actual Ultramarines!

It's highly annoying more than anything, and speaks more to one's goal of putting pure "winning at toy soldiers" above everything else. No other army really gets to anything remotely similar.
I doubt anyone beyond the most hyperactive fluff bunny purist would object to the odd time of playing Ultras as say CT: Iron Hands or White Scars or whatever when it's relevant. (ie: using Scars doctrine to play a 6th company biker/land speeder army, or even using Codex: Blood Angels for a pure 8th Company Assault army)
But when your "Ultramarines" are essentially 'every chapter under the sun BUT ultramarines', don't be surprised when someone grumbles about the real motives behind the chapter-hopping.

I do kind of agree, being a fluff purist, but this is a gray line because it kind of encourages you to build your own Chapter, so you can essentially circumvent it.

It could be argued though that Chapter Tactics have the tactics part emphasized. So an assault force of any chapter might use White Scars or Raven Guard tactics, while a defending force might use Imperial Fists, and a force that knows it's going after 'Nids or Orks might go Salamanders to represent tactical doctrines. I honestly think that "Chapter Tactics" is the wrong term and it should be doctrines (barring something like Black Templars which are different enough to be their own).

It's really a gray area.

I have been doing this with my Home Brew Chapter, but it is by company.
1st: Deathwing
2nd: Grey Knights
3rd: Black Templars
4th: Imperial Fist
5th: Iron Hands
6th: Ultra Marines
7th: [Not Sure]
8th: Blood Angels
9th: [Not Sure]
10th: Raven Guard

I usually let who I am playing know witch one before we start to list build.

We're discussing chapter tactics like this whole scenario is something new, when it really isn't. Back in 5th/6th I was speaking to my flgs manager, and was told that it's perfectly fine to have "a" force painted up how you like, and to use whatever codex tickled your fancy that day. He gave one case of a guy that had painted ultras, though regularly swapped between the available marine codexs just to keep things fresh and varied for himself.

I genuinely see nothing wrong with this, as referring back to the brb, there's one rule that's cited before anything else: this is a game, enjoy it and have fun.

 PhillyT wrote:
Hey, it's up to each group to determine their own WYSIWYG.

A kHorne bezerker isn't a thousand sun and an ultramarine isn't a raven guard.

I'd agree, but the TSons original paint scheme was red, and KB's and TS' don;t take the same weapons load-outs. Ever.

Experiment 626 wrote:

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

 Yonan wrote:

 PhillyT wrote:
Hey, it's up to each group to determine their own WYSIWYG.

A kHorne bezerker isn't a thousand sun and an ultramarine isn't a raven guard.

A khorne berzerker has an axe, not a bolter. He has khorne symbols on his model diametrically opposed to tzeentch.
The other is the exact same model but painted blue instead of black.

I think the point he's trying to make is that a model that is clearly marked with the symbols of the chapter should only be used to represent that chapter. Sure, a blue marine isn't necessarily an Ultramarine, but a blue marine covered in Ultramarine symbols is an Ultramarine.

I can well understand the OP's beef, as I think it mainly revolves around seeing the constant abuses of shenanigans like:

1. A Marine player paints their army as Ultramarines, including adding all the appropriate chapter icons, squad markings, etc...

2. Their first game, they play them as CT: Ultramarines.
Their very next game, instead they decide, "oh I'm playing against 'Nids now instead of CSM's, so today I'm 'counting as' CT: Salamanders"
Then the marine player's next game out, they decide to play their Ultras as CT: Imperial Fists in order to get the buffs to their Centurians and Tank Hunting Devies.
Next time, they bring a mechanised list and thus turn up with CT: Iron Hands for their so-called 'Ultramarines'
When the marine player goes back to say a Drop Pod list, they against turn around and use the Salamanders doctrine.

On and on and on, every single or near every single game, these "Ultramarines" are simply a paint scheme cherry picking the best CT for the relevant foe or list, instead of being used mostly as actual Ultramarines!

It's highly annoying more than anything, and speaks more to one's goal of putting pure "winning at toy soldiers" above everything else. No other army really gets to anything remotely similar.
I doubt anyone beyond the most hyperactive fluff bunny purist would object to the odd time of playing Ultras as say CT: Iron Hands or White Scars or whatever when it's relevant. (ie: using Scars doctrine to play a 6th company biker/land speeder army, or even using Codex: Blood Angels for a pure 8th Company Assault army)
But when your "Ultramarines" are essentially 'every chapter under the sun BUT ultramarines', don't be surprised when someone grumbles about the real motives behind the chapter-hopping.

I can see your point but counter with this

In the first game, they are the Ultramarine's 2nd Company who follow the Codex right up the middle and are perfectly balanced between the Tacticals, Assault and Devs.

In the 2nd game, the 3rd Company and Cassius' Tyrannic War Veterans take the fight to the Nids, vengeance for Ichar IV and Macragge.

In the 3rd, the 9th Company with their Devs and Centurians show up to aid the 4th Company in defending a fortress from the Iron Warriors.

In the 4th, the Spear of Macragge, Antaro Chronus, is charged with leading and directing an Armoured Spearhead into the enemies flank. To maximise effectiveness, the Captain of the 6th takes some of his own Company to ride alongside the tanks while Techmarines accompany them as both Crew and for repairs midbattle. The warriors on foot are equipped with specialised painkiller injectors to numb pain instantaneously and allow them to keep up with the armour.

In the 5th, the 4th Company are sent in to deliver a close ranged barrage of overwhelming "fire"power.


Chapters aren't rigid in their tactics. They may have a prefence but if it comes down to it, the Raven Guard will fight you tooth and nail on the open battlefield and the White Scars will fight a trench war if no other option is availible.

Experiment 626 wrote:

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

 Yonan wrote:

 PhillyT wrote:
Hey, it's up to each group to determine their own WYSIWYG.

A kHorne bezerker isn't a thousand sun and an ultramarine isn't a raven guard.

A khorne berzerker has an axe, not a bolter. He has khorne symbols on his model diametrically opposed to tzeentch.
The other is the exact same model but painted blue instead of black.

I think the point he's trying to make is that a model that is clearly marked with the symbols of the chapter should only be used to represent that chapter. Sure, a blue marine isn't necessarily an Ultramarine, but a blue marine covered in Ultramarine symbols is an Ultramarine.

I can well understand the OP's beef, as I think it mainly revolves around seeing the constant abuses of shenanigans like:

1. A Marine player paints their army as Ultramarines, including adding all the appropriate chapter icons, squad markings, etc...

2. Their first game, they play them as CT: Ultramarines.
Their very next game, instead they decide, "oh I'm playing against 'Nids now instead of CSM's, so today I'm 'counting as' CT: Salamanders"
Then the marine player's next game out, they decide to play their Ultras as CT: Imperial Fists in order to get the buffs to their Centurians and Tank Hunting Devies.
Next time, they bring a mechanised list and thus turn up with CT: Iron Hands for their so-called 'Ultramarines'
When the marine player goes back to say a Drop Pod list, they against turn around and use the Salamanders doctrine.

On and on and on, every single or near every single game, these "Ultramarines" are simply a paint scheme cherry picking the best CT for the relevant foe or list, instead of being used mostly as actual Ultramarines!

It's highly annoying more than anything, and speaks more to one's goal of putting pure "winning at toy soldiers" above everything else. No other army really gets to anything remotely similar.
I doubt anyone beyond the most hyperactive fluff bunny purist would object to the odd time of playing Ultras as say CT: Iron Hands or White Scars or whatever when it's relevant. (ie: using Scars doctrine to play a 6th company biker/land speeder army, or even using Codex: Blood Angels for a pure 8th Company Assault army)
But when your "Ultramarines" are essentially 'every chapter under the sun BUT ultramarines', don't be surprised when someone grumbles about the real motives behind the chapter-hopping.

I get it, I really really do. It's annoying, having people use a different codex each week, when non-space marine armies are stuck with the same book for 4+ years. Remember though, list tailoring is something different, in any situation, you should be using a take all comers list unless you are both agreed to build specific lists before-hand.

But what's the alternative? Forcing people to stick to the chapter tactic they have painted is counter-productive at best. It punishes people that have their list painted as something, then receive crappy rules. Eg. I painted my army Ultramarine blue in 1998. They've been good, bad, awful, mediocre and everything in between in the last 16 years. It would encourage either leaving the models unpainted, which makes NO ONE happy, so you can freely CT hope, or it would encourage people to make their own chapter/paint scheme and claim which ever tactic they want. What are you going to do then? Not allow people to re-write their own chapter's fluff? Eg. My army is painted blue. They are Imperial renegades, called Dark fist space blood wolf angel imperial marines. Now what? Not going to play me because my fluff is bad and written like a 8 year old? It's an un-winnable position to try to fight for in the long run.

Do people really expect people to collect a White space marine army for White Scars, and an entirely different army painted Green for Salamanders, and a THIRD army painted red for Blood Angels? Who has the money for that, and even if you did, who has the time to paint 3-8 armies just because of a few tiny rule differences? It's a crap investment too, as who's to say the 7th or 8th edition Space marine book doesn't just dump chapter tactics altogether again, making all the marine armies the same once more.

 Selym wrote:

 PhillyT wrote:
Hey, it's up to each group to determine their own WYSIWYG.

A kHorne bezerker isn't a thousand sun and an ultramarine isn't a raven guard.

I'd agree, but the TSons original paint scheme was red, and KB's and TS' don;t take the same weapons load-outs. Ever.

Actualy for the most part they did take the same equipment before and during the Heresy, there were only small number of units that were unique to each Legion.