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2014/09/08 22:06:14
Subject: SM armor no powerfield?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Hoping this is the right section to post this, a thousand pardons if not!
I'm not sure if I got it right, but as I understand it (n00b at fluff, since I've only played computer games of 40k), that SpaceMarines and Chaos armor doesn't have a powerfield? I had expected that such highly regarded warriors from the far far future would least have a modest powerfield in their armor.
It was the Regan StarWars project that tested powerfields, which could indeed stop kinetic bullets, but it took a huge nuclear reactor, which soldiers couldn't have in their backpack, and very impractical for general use in the battlefield as it would heavily pollute it, when blown up.
With 38k years in the future, an entire powergenerating backpack, we should demand that C/SM could have tiny powerfield.
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2014/09/08 22:22:08
Subject: Re:SM armor no powerfield?
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Crazed Spirit of the Defiler
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powerfields in the imperium of man are very rare. Space Marine Captains, Chaplains, Terminators and high ranking guard officers/inquisitors are the only ones who have access to them.
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Iron within, Iron without |
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2014/09/08 22:24:01
Subject: Re:SM armor no powerfield?
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Ultramarine Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control
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No power field, sorry. Power armor is strictly armored plate.
Even Terminator armor is technically only armor plate (albeit very thick armor plate). The invulnerable save was added partway through 3rd edition because the change to the AP system made the armor nearly worthless, and was only added to bring it up to its former 2nd edition durability, it has nothing to do with any force fields.
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Battlefleet Gothic ships and markers at my store, GrimDarkBits:
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2014/09/08 22:27:26
Subject: Re:SM armor no powerfield?
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The Conquerer
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
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Because they are rare.
Sure, the PA reactor could power one. But the tech to make the field emitters and such are incredibly rare. But they can fit them in jewelry so there is that.
PA on the other hand is better than relying on a power field. Its just incredibly strong by itself. No need for a field which can potentially fail when you've got armor which is almost as good. And if you've got a field as well thats even better.
Even TDA doesn't actually have a power field(its just so tough it gives an actual invuln save) and its just scaled up PA.
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Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! |
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2014/09/08 23:52:17
Subject: SM armor no powerfield?
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Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter
Seattle
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HexHammer wrote:Hoping this is the right section to post this, a thousand pardons if not!
I'm not sure if I got it right, but as I understand it (n00b at fluff, since I've only played computer games of 40k), that SpaceMarines and Chaos armor doesn't have a powerfield? I had expected that such highly regarded warriors from the far far future would least have a modest powerfield in their armor.
It was the Regan StarWars project that tested powerfields, which could indeed stop kinetic bullets, but it took a huge nuclear reactor, which soldiers couldn't have in their backpack, and very impractical for general use in the battlefield as it would heavily pollute it, when blown up.
With 38k years in the future, an entire powergenerating backpack, we should demand that C/ SM could have tiny powerfield.
What you're talking about is a force field, which is incredibly rare technology in the Imperium for a man-portable device, and even rarer amongst air/ground vehicles, apart from the Titans and the void-faring starships. The people who get the wearable versions tend to be very important Inquisitors, extremely wealthy Rogue Traders, and Ecclesiarchal VIPs.
A powerfield is the matter-destroying energy field that is found on power weapons. You don't want one of those on your armor.
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It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised. |
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2014/09/09 00:19:50
Subject: SM armor no powerfield?
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Veteran Inquisitor with Xenos Alliances
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The mechanicum's soldiers use a special type of power armor that is thinner plates but does produce a force field of sorts. When looking at Imperial units if it has any sort of invulnerable save its general because it has a force field.
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2014/09/09 00:26:55
Subject: SM armor no powerfield?
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Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter
Seattle
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The Skitaarii? They're more machine than man, they get invulns because they often don't have internal organs that care about being perforated.
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It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised. |
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2014/09/09 00:42:02
Subject: SM armor no powerfield?
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Missionary On A Mission
Australia
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If Space Marines want a 'powerfield' then maybe they should have more Faith in their Emperor! See Sisters of Battle armywide 6+ Invuln.
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2014/09/09 00:55:26
Subject: SM armor no powerfield?
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Fresh-Faced New User
Earth
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Psienesis wrote:The Skitaarii? They're more machine than man, they get invulns because they often don't have internal organs that care about being perforated.
Pressurized oil resovoirs would still need some protection. I dson't know about Skitaari per se, but my assumption always was they'd have FNP, which represented the chance that whatever was damaged was a none vital system
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2014/09/09 01:28:46
Subject: Re:SM armor no powerfield?
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Thunderhawk Pilot Dropping From Orbit
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CalgarsPimpHand wrote:Even Terminator armor is technically only armor plate (albeit very thick armor plate). The invulnerable save was added partway through 3rd edition because the change to the AP system made the armor nearly worthless, and was only added to bring it up to its former 2nd edition durability, it has nothing to do with any force fields.
Actually the write-up for Gorgon Pattern Terminator Armour in the second Forge World Horus Heresy book states that it is a variant of Indomitus armour (the standard 40k Terminator suit) with the 'embedded field generators' replaced.
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2014/09/09 19:54:45
Subject: SM armor no powerfield?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Psienesis wrote:What you're talking about is a force field, which is incredibly rare technology in the Imperium for a man-portable device, and even rarer amongst air/ground vehicles, apart from the Titans and the void-faring starships. The people who get the wearable versions tend to be very important Inquisitors, extremely wealthy Rogue Traders, and Ecclesiarchal VIPs.
A powerfield is the matter-destroying energy field that is found on power weapons. You don't want one of those on your armor.
AHA! A force field! I have gotten wiser! Thanks!
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2014/09/09 20:53:20
Subject: SM armor no powerfield?
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Proud Triarch Praetorian
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I will admit, I thought SM PA was similar to Spartan Mjolnir armour, in that it was plate that improved the wearer's physical prowess and had a small energy shield around it
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Experience is something you get just after you need it
The Narkos Dynasty - 15k
Iron Hands - 12k
The Shadewatch - 3k
Cadmus Outriders - 4k
Alpha Legion Raiders - 3k |
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2014/09/09 21:40:26
Subject: SM armor no powerfield?
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Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter
Seattle
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It is like Mjolnir armor... just better.
Actually the write-up for Gorgon Pattern Terminator Armour in the second Forge World Horus Heresy book states that it is a variant of Indomitus armour (the standard 40k Terminator suit) with the 'embedded field generators' replaced.
Probably because the secrets to creating the field generators has been all but lost.
Remember, Termi armor was originally designed for maintenance workers to fix plasma reactors. It's not intended for combat functionality.
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It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised. |
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2014/09/09 21:42:54
Subject: SM armor no powerfield?
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Ferocious Black Templar Castellan
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GoonBandito wrote:If Space Marines want a 'powerfield' then maybe they should have more Faith in their Emperor! See Sisters of Battle armywide 6+ Invuln.
Used to be available to the Black Templars too, until the new "improved" Codex....
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For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. |
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2014/09/09 21:55:27
Subject: SM armor no powerfield?
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The Conquerer
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
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IHateNids wrote:I will admit, I thought SM PA was similar to Spartan Mjolnir armour, in that it was plate that improved the wearer's physical prowess and had a small energy shield around it
Its actually superior in terms of protection than Mjolnir armor. Because, as well know, when the field goes down the Mjolnir loses most of its protection. hence why Spartans NEED to find cover. It just lets them cross open ground with less fear of dying.
Space Marine PA(and TDA) means you don't need cover against most weapons. Its not going to lose its protective qualities because you got hit with a few slug rounds.
The only thing where Mjolnir might be better is in terms of battle support. It has an in-built super computer. Everything else is superior in the PA and/or the Marine himself, including life support, strength enhancement, better soldier, etc...
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Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! |
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2014/09/09 21:57:03
Subject: SM armor no powerfield?
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Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter
Seattle
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To be fair, having 3D Holo-Cortana on long campaigns is definitely-
You know what? I can't even finish that joke on a family-friendly forum.
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It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised. |
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2014/09/09 23:35:37
Subject: SM armor no powerfield?
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Thunderhawk Pilot Dropping From Orbit
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Psienesis wrote:
Remember, Termi armor was originally designed for maintenance workers to fix plasma reactors. It's not intended for combat functionality.
Oh I remember it all too well, that's the problem, that bit of fluff originates from the original Terminator armour article in 1st edition, the same article that gave all Terminators the option of having a Refractor Field that granted a 5+ Invulnerable save in addition to their 2+ armour save. And Refractor Fields aren't lost tech because they are currently standard issue to Imperial Guard Company Commanders.
The Gorgon Terminator entry specifically refers to Ferrus Mannus striving to refine and improve terminator armour, the Indomitus pattern's field generators were removed to make way for an experimental field (going by the description and its rule they swapped the Refractor Field for a Conversion Field), ergo Indomitus pattern Terminator armour has field generators.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/10 00:44:34
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2014/09/10 00:23:32
Subject: SM armor no powerfield?
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Missionary On A Mission
Australia
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AlmightyWalrus wrote: GoonBandito wrote:If Space Marines want a 'powerfield' then maybe they should have more Faith in their Emperor! See Sisters of Battle armywide 6+ Invuln.
Used to be available to the Black Templars too, until the new "improved" Codex....
Your Faith is weak!
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2014/09/10 11:37:25
Subject: Re:SM armor no powerfield?
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Ultramarine Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control
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Gashrog wrote: CalgarsPimpHand wrote:Even Terminator armor is technically only armor plate (albeit very thick armor plate). The invulnerable save was added partway through 3rd edition because the change to the AP system made the armor nearly worthless, and was only added to bring it up to its former 2nd edition durability, it has nothing to do with any force fields.
Actually the write-up for Gorgon Pattern Terminator Armour in the second Forge World Horus Heresy book states that it is a variant of Indomitus armour (the standard 40k Terminator suit) with the 'embedded field generators' replaced.
Yeah, I'm aware of that. That's the only mention of a field generator in Terminator armor that I can find, and it's a very, very recent one. Choose to believe what you want to believe, but it's a retcon that only came about well after the 5++ was added (and most assuredly only because the 5++ was added), and the 5++ was only added because a normal 2+ just isn't enough to represent how thick the physical armor is. It's a slow bastardization of the fluff due to limitations in the rules.
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Battlefleet Gothic ships and markers at my store, GrimDarkBits:
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2014/09/10 12:08:57
Subject: SM armor no powerfield?
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Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine
north of nowhere
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Psienesis wrote:HexHammer wrote:Hoping this is the right section to post this, a thousand pardons if not!
I'm not sure if I got it right, but as I understand it (n00b at fluff, since I've only played computer games of 40k), that SpaceMarines and Chaos armor doesn't have a powerfield? I had expected that such highly regarded warriors from the far far future would least have a modest powerfield in their armor.
It was the Regan StarWars project that tested powerfields, which could indeed stop kinetic bullets, but it took a huge nuclear reactor, which soldiers couldn't have in their backpack, and very impractical for general use in the battlefield as it would heavily pollute it, when blown up.
With 38k years in the future, an entire powergenerating backpack, we should demand that C/ SM could have tiny powerfield.
What you're talking about is a force field, which is incredibly rare technology in the Imperium for a man-portable device, and even rarer amongst air/ground vehicles, apart from the Titans and the void-faring starships. The people who get the wearable versions tend to be very important Inquisitors, extremely wealthy Rogue Traders, and Ecclesiarchal VIPs.
A powerfield is the matter-destroying energy field that is found on power weapons. You don't want one of those on your armor.
Perhaps you could find a use for it. They say nobody wins with a headbutt, but if you have a powerfield over your armor....
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2014/09/10 12:59:30
Subject: SM armor no powerfield?
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Fireknife Shas'el
Lisbon, Portugal
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If you like force field, look no further than the Dark Angels Codex. HQ units can get 3 kinds of different force fields - one of them even protects nearby fellas! And it isn't a Relic, so you can grab 2 of each! Imagine ana rmy of force fields with multiple CADs!
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AI & BFG: / BMG: Mr. Freeze, Deathstroke / Battletech: SR, OWA / HGB: Caprice / Malifaux: Arcanists, Guild, Outcasts / MCP: Mutants / SAGA: Ordensstaat / SW Legion & X-Wing: CIS / WWX: Union
Unit1126PLL wrote:"FW is unbalanced and going to ruin tournaments."
"Name one where it did that."
"IT JUST DOES OKAY!"
Shadenuat wrote:Voted Astra Militarum for a chance for them to get nerfed instead of my own army. |
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2014/09/10 18:02:51
Subject: SM armor no powerfield?
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Ferocious Black Templar Castellan
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GoonBandito wrote: AlmightyWalrus wrote: GoonBandito wrote:If Space Marines want a 'powerfield' then maybe they should have more Faith in their Emperor! See Sisters of Battle armywide 6+ Invuln.
Used to be available to the Black Templars too, until the new "improved" Codex....
Your Faith is weak!
You talkin' to me?
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For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. |
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2014/09/10 20:40:13
Subject: SM armor no powerfield?
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Krazed Killa Kan
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I personally subscribe to the ork belief powers everything system so the reason things like iron halos and belts of russ give power fields is that it's what the orks believe causes them. Mork has a keen eye for forgeries so trying to slide a cardboard iron halo by won't cut it.
If you think the 40k world works on such silly concepts like "science" then it's probably has to do with not having enough power generation to power the armor and generate a strong enough field to count as anything more than just boosting the armor value if the power armor suit.
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"Hold my shoota, I'm goin in"
Armies (7th edition points)
7000+ Points Death Skullz
4000 Points
+ + 3000 Points "The Fiery Heart of the Emperor"
3500 Points "Void Kraken" Space Marines
3000 Points "Bard's Booze Cruise" |
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2014/09/21 19:12:15
Subject: Re:SM armor no powerfield?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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If very expensive armor does have such field, then why does tanks not?
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2014/09/21 20:14:35
Subject: SM armor no powerfield?
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Hallowed Canoness
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Because tanks (as in, regular battle tanks) are cheaper than ordinary Space Marines.
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"That time I only loaded the cannon with powder. Next time, I will fill it with jewels and diamonds and they will cut you to shrebbons!" - Nogbad the Bad. |
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2014/09/21 20:51:35
Subject: SM armor no powerfield?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Furyou Miko wrote:Because tanks (as in, regular battle tanks) are cheaper than ordinary Space Marines.
A baneblade is cheaper than a SM? ..incredible! ........?
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2014/09/21 20:52:43
Subject: SM armor no powerfield?
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Hallowed Canoness
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Baneblades are not regular battle tanks. They are rare and precious super-heavies.
That said, yes, Baneblades cost less to produce and maintain than Space Marines. There are probably more Baneblades in the Imperium than there are space Marines.
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"That time I only loaded the cannon with powder. Next time, I will fill it with jewels and diamonds and they will cut you to shrebbons!" - Nogbad the Bad. |
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2014/09/21 21:04:52
Subject: SM armor no powerfield?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Furyou Miko wrote:Baneblades are not regular battle tanks. They are rare and precious super-heavies.
That said, yes, Baneblades cost less to produce and maintain than Space Marines. There are probably more Baneblades in the Imperium than there are space Marines.
Sorry for being obnoxious, but then why if BB's are sooo rare, why don't they come with a forcefield?
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2014/09/21 21:10:08
Subject: SM armor no powerfield?
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Fixture of Dakka
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HexHammer wrote: Furyou Miko wrote:Baneblades are not regular battle tanks. They are rare and precious super-heavies.
That said, yes, Baneblades cost less to produce and maintain than Space Marines. There are probably more Baneblades in the Imperium than there are space Marines.
Sorry for being obnoxious, but then why if BB's are sooo rare, why don't they come with a forcefield?
Because that wasn't how they were originally designed. And the Mechanicum aren't going to commit heresy like thinking or daring to alter a STC.
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tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam |
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2014/09/21 21:19:52
Subject: SM armor no powerfield?
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Tunneling Trygon
Carrickfergus, Northern Ireland
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Why do you assume that it is resource-effective (not to even talk about possible) to coat every Baneblade in a "power field"? Only the biggest and most valuable vehicles (Imperial Titans) get anything similar, and they're called void shields. The reason being that the technology behind them is not only extremely intensive (meaning that the vehicle in question needs to be very large just to carry the device and a large enough engine to power it) but also very hard to produce.
For the resources and time required to make a single void shield generator, you could probably make five Baneblades, if not more. Lesser "power fields" are extremely small, so you'd be talking about a Baneblade-scale Iron Halo, or stapling Storm Shields (treasured items given only to the greatest of Space Marine Veterans) all over the vehicle's hull.
Let's not forget that energy fields are not automatically superior to armour plating. Baneblades have quite excellent armour as it is.
How about "why don't they coat every single vehicle and personal armour in the entire Imperium with the skin of the salamanders of Nocturne"? Vulkan's salamander-scale cloak, Kesare's Mantle, gives him a 3+ invulnerable save. What about Necrodermis? Why don't we give every fighting soldier in the Imperium Terminator armour?
EDIT: pm713 wrote:
Because that wasn't how they were originally designed. And the Mechanicum aren't going to commit heresy like thinking or daring to alter a STC.
Not true. There are multiple Baneblade variants that were created as modifications to the existing template.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/21 21:21:06
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