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For the past few books like 'Nids, there has been tremendous amounts of whine coming down after the first few playtests, people throwing their hands in the air, calling it quits.

The GK book was completely gutted, leaving a bare remnant of what it used to be, adding not a single new unit, scrapping special characters (Castellan Crowe and Mordrak) and completely scratching a lot of the rules that made the army special. (Grand Strategy, Psybolt ammo, +2ini halberds...)

And yet, after the first few cries of "there's nothing left!" before the book was released, I've not really read any whine about it. Personally, I quite like the new book.
I guess the people that were never really interested in the GKs moved on to the Inquisition book, and the rest of us enjoyed the terminator buff enough to keep us satisfied.

Mostly it's due to the fact that most GK are trashing their opponents in many of their games. The NDK is even more a beast and the new organization that lets them generate warp charges on 3+ (Added with the dirt cheap lvl 3 psykers) is actually quite good and flavorful. Added bonus is that Draigo is a beast and joining with the SW's for pods with combat squadded purifiers (that generates a warp charge each) can put quite a hurt on blobs.


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Besides, even though the interwebz cries about how everything was gutted and destroyed, the ACTUAL GK's actually got better and no matter how much nostalgia sprinkle dust people poured over the old codex, the fact remains is that a good "GK" army was maxed out Psydreads, inquisitors, henchmen and psybacks. Which largely indicated a blatant issue with internal balance, and let's not even talk about the stupidness that was the double Cortezz clone.


PS: The only real valid complaint I can relate to, is that fething atrocious layout of the new 7th. Edition codices have been sporting. Trading old artwork on unit entries with pictures of gakky drybrushed models, and the absurd page flipping you need to do in order to check the unit's rules, cost, war gear, rules on war gear.

 Zewrath wrote:
PS: The only real valid complaint I can relate to, is that fething atrocious layout of the new 7th. Edition codices have been sporting. Trading old artwork on unit entries with pictures of gakky drybrushed models, and the absurd page flipping you need to do in order to check the unit's rules, cost, war gear, rules on war gear.

Totally disagree. I love the new lay out. I wasn't sitting there admiring the drawings anyway, and the new lay out has the "bestiary" and "shopping" sections smashed together. If anything, I find it has cut down dramatically on my flipping.

 Purifier wrote:

 Zewrath wrote:
PS: The only real valid complaint I can relate to, is that fething atrocious layout of the new 7th. Edition codices have been sporting. Trading old artwork on unit entries with pictures of gakky drybrushed models, and the absurd page flipping you need to do in order to check the unit's rules, cost, war gear, rules on war gear.

Totally disagree. I love the new lay out. I wasn't sitting there admiring the drawings anyway, and the new lay out has the "bestiary" and "shopping" sections smashed together. If anything, I find it has cut down dramatically on my flipping.

Well, that's your opinion, I've almost heard nothing but the opposite but of course, what I hear from a couple of people doesn't necessarily represent the majority.

People are more likely to complain that to praise

Personally, I like the new layout as well. After the initial reading pictures don't matter anyways, and you find the stuff you're looking for a lot faster than previously. The only odd thing about the ork codex is warlord traits being listed in the back, rather than in front of the army rules. But they suck anyways, so not much of a loss.

 Jidmah wrote:
People are more likely to complain that to praise

Personally, I like the new layout as well. After the initial reading pictures don't matter anyways, and you find the stuff you're looking for a lot faster than previously. The only odd thing about the ork codex is warlord traits being listed in the back, rather than in front of the army rules. But they suck anyways, so not much of a loss.

So is the GK. Just a new place for them, together with the army special rules.

I guess the new layout is better for GK than others, though. For me, each unit type taking up a whole page is no big deal, as there are only 18 of them. SW have over 40 of those pages, so that might contribute to the complaint of the page-flipping.

Globally, I like the new Codex, in structure asin contents, even if...

Even if there are some points that puzzle me, but most can be my personal view of the GKs.

For example the (relative) short range of psycannond, the elimination of servo skulls or the "lack" of deep strike on purgators and purifiers (an option, even costly, would have fitted more my image... Idk, a 50 pts. option (not having drop pods by themselves) for those squads (and dreadnoughts?).

But again, I like the new Codex. I think I can bring in all the weapons (finally.. I always liked the style for psilencers) and a "mix" of PA units.

 Kerrathyr wrote:
Globally, I like the new Codex, in structure asin contents, even if...

Even if there are some points that puzzle me, but most can be my personal view of the GKs.

For example the (relative) short range of psycannond, the elimination of servo skulls or the "lack" of deep strike on purgators and purifiers (an option, even costly, would have fitted more my image... Idk, a 50 pts. option (not having drop pods by themselves) for those squads (and dreadnoughts?).

But again, I like the new Codex. I think I can bring in all the weapons (finally.. I always liked the style for psilencers) and a "mix" of PA units.

I think GK Dreads should definitely have deep strike.
For balance purposes, I can actually understand purifiers not being able to DS, but then they go and ruin that balance by allowing us to ally drop pods instead...

I heard a great deal of criticism about the book being cut in half but with a higher price.

Almost frightening... the Assassins Dataslate is also quite solid. Not too strong, not too weak, giving additional options. I think this is also the case for GK: you got a strong theme, have enough options to variate and will see rewards if you stick to the theme. I certainly hope the next codex will work out as well...

I guess removing the options to cut down complexity is acceptable collateral damage. Better than the CSM codex where several units are simply trash which nobody will take (e.g. Mutilators or Possessed).

They did a lot of the same things with the new IG book.

Took out Cherkov, and Al'Reheim, which were cool units that changed the dynamic of some ig armies.

it feels like to me that instead of balancing asymmetrical armies with each other they are homogenizing a lot of them to perform similarly.

 Purifier wrote:
scrapping special characters (Castellan Crowe and Mordrak)

Crowe is still in the book. The characters who got removed were Thawn and Mordrak(and the inquisitors)

And yeah, the book is definitely playable. It is a new playstyle focused on lots of psychic powers and deep striking.

Only thing I'm really cheesed off about is losing Psybolts.

I think we all saw the change to Salvo for psycannons so we've just accepted it.

if he doesn't make purfiers troops, then crow may as well not be in the book.

True. He doesn't occupy the "dirt cheap HQ" spot anymore either.

Kitted out Librarian is cheaper.

It could be that many simply just said "No, thanks." to the release. I've seen an uptick if GK armies on swap groups. Many of the personal gaming groups of just friends and acquaintances simply just shelved them or didn't care.

There's something that could be said that hatred and frustration expressions still show a keen interest in the subject. Complete apathy means people are looking elsewhere. The GK book got gutted and killed two of the popular army play styles. I'm hoping many folks were sensible enough to simply say no to such a blatant disregard to the customer.

Absolutely loving the new dex.. The gk have been tabling or almost tabling their opponents by turn 3 quite often (even the leman Russ heavy lists..proof we can deal with heavy armor) in their first few weeks of trial.

Where we struggle is against other terminators/2+ saves and av13+ still. But deepstriking/shunting behind vehicles is very easy and totally a thing and we have the mobility to choose our engagements now

This week I am going to start to bring my inquisition back into the game for skulls and some meltas to teleport around with dragio and see how it goes.

(We have some competitive players in our community to include some who do very well in national tournaments and we all usually bring a fluffy list and a competitive one for either type of game)

Well, to be fair, most of the whining dies down after the book actually comes out. Prior to every new codex, people see the rumors, leaks, etc, lose their mind, come on Dakka and BOLS and rant and rave how they are done, selling the army, etc.

Then the codex is released, players play a few games, and suddenly all is calm. This happened with Marines, AM, Orks, Space Wolves, and now Grey Knights. Nids seems to be one of the few exceptions as there is still alot of grumbling and grousing on that one.

Most of the time it takes at least 3-4 months before the "Doom and Gloom" settles, or at least another codex release. Much more than "a few" games.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
Well, to be fair, most of the whining dies down after the book actually comes out. Prior to every new codex, people see the rumors, leaks, etc, lose their mind, come on Dakka and BOLS and rant and rave how they are done, selling the army, etc.

Then the codex is released, players play a few games, and suddenly all is calm. This happened with Marines, AM, Orks, Space Wolves, and now Grey Knights. Nids seems to be one of the few exceptions as there is still alot of grumbling and grousing on that one.

Could be that those dissatisfied with the dex stop playing it, leaving only those who like it? Seems plausable.
You hear Nid complaints more because its less justifiable even with its fans?

 Purifier wrote:
For the past few books like 'Nids, there has been tremendous amounts of whine coming down after the first few playtests, people throwing their hands in the air, calling it quits.

The GK book was completely gutted, leaving a bare remnant of what it used to be, adding not a single new unit, scrapping special characters (Castellan Crowe and Mordrak) and completely scratching a lot of the rules that made the army special. (Grand Strategy, Psybolt ammo, +2ini halberds...)

And yet, after the first few cries of "there's nothing left!" before the book was released, I've not really read any whine about it. Personally, I quite like the new book.
I guess the people that were never really interested in the GKs moved on to the Inquisition book, and the rest of us enjoyed the terminator buff enough to keep us satisfied.

they didnt scrap Crowe...

But anywho, all the books have been a lot more balanced. everyone wants to complain when they LOSE. THAT'S ALWAYS been the problem. Change comes HARD and its not like the prices are allowing new players to flood in at a rabid pace nor older players to adjust QUICKLY with a couple (not free but not uber expensive) upgrades. That's on GW. They just let their greed get the better of them when selling starter boxes. But even that's changing, for those paying attention. the recent starters have been at a savings. Unfortunately, a discount from a very high price to begin with but lets give credit where its due: its a start.

So Grey Knights are not going to get a lot of sympathy nor a lot of hatred. You can PRETTY much play the same lists and as long as you use multiple CADS, EXTREMELY similar lists. All the GK book is doing is forcing the hand of TO's into allowing multiple CAD's. And frankly while Im really NOT a "multi-CAD fan" I am now seeign that the codex's are ALL going to be written with the Multiple CAD's in mind.

Grey KNights require two CADS and another Detachment for me to play my list. And as long as my opponents dont care, that's what Ill do.

Not many people will just walk away from an investment like a 40k army just because the codex gets worse unless it totally shafts the army(which isn't what happened)

We got it worse than most, but we hardly got gutted like other codices have in the past.

At the very least we'd have a bunch of angry "I'm quitting GKs" threads.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Not many people will just walk away from an investment like a 40k army just because the codex gets worse unless it totally shafts the army(which isn't what happened)

We got it worse than most, but we hardly got gutted like other codices have in the past.

At the very least we'd have a bunch of angry "I'm quitting GKs" threads.

No, but people with multiple armies tend to shelf the ones they're not playing.

... there's also the possibility that the game has lost pretty much all of the casual players its going to lose, and all that's left are the die-hards (even if they only play fluff/fun lists and not power-lists).

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
Well, to be fair, most of the whining dies down after the book actually comes out. Prior to every new codex, people see the rumors, leaks, etc, lose their mind, come on Dakka and BOLS and rant and rave how they are done, selling the army, etc.

Then the codex is released, players play a few games, and suddenly all is calm. This happened with Marines, AM, Orks, Space Wolves, and now Grey Knights. Nids seems to be one of the few exceptions as there is still alot of grumbling and grousing on that one.

To be fair, there wasn't a lot of complaining about SM, AM or SW... and most of the complaining that did exist were in regards to BT getting folded and crappy new models (Centurions, Tauroxes, etc), nothing about the actual Codices. I'm still complaining about what they did to Nids...

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
Well, to be fair, most of the whining dies down after the book actually comes out. Prior to every new codex, people see the rumors, leaks, etc, lose their mind, come on Dakka and BOLS and rant and rave how they are done, selling the army, etc.

Then the codex is released, players play a few games, and suddenly all is calm. This happened with Marines, AM, Orks, Space Wolves, and now Grey Knights. Nids seems to be one of the few exceptions as there is still alot of grumbling and grousing on that one.

To be fair, there wasn't a lot of complaining about SM, AM or SW... and most of the complaining that did exist were in regards to BT getting folded and crappy new models (Centurions, Tauroxes, etc), nothing about the actual Codices. I'm still complaining about what they did to Nids...

And Chaos Space Marines.

I love the new Codex and it has really has me excited to play. I don't even mind that they aren't self-sufficient because it lets me have my Imperial Knight and Imperial Fists all in one go with needing a whole bunch of different armies.

A good amount of guys are buying the new codex in my local gaming group as well to get GK allies because of how well they fit that role. It definitely seems like all in all this was a win.

Looking at everything since Codex: Space Marines landed has been balanced with each other is why my group has hade very little bad to say.
The Nids haves some issues, but seem to be doing ok.

 Purifier wrote:
For the past few books like 'Nids, there has been tremendous amounts of whine coming down after the first few playtests, people throwing their hands in the air, calling it quits.

The GK book was completely gutted, leaving a bare remnant of what it used to be, adding not a single new unit, scrapping special characters (Castellan Crowe and Mordrak) and completely scratching a lot of the rules that made the army special. (Grand Strategy, Psybolt ammo, +2ini halberds...)

And yet, after the first few cries of "there's nothing left!" before the book was released, I've not really read any whine about it. Personally, I quite like the new book.
I guess the people that were never really interested in the GKs moved on to the Inquisition book, and the rest of us enjoyed the terminator buff enough to keep us satisfied.

The primary reaons are because..

1. The Units that were hit are not actually units that were played that much, not as fun as it is now. Before it was about Paladins, Psyfleman Dreads, and Inquisitorial henchmen in razorback spam.
This playstyle, is not the playstyle in my personal opinion that Most Gk got into this faction for. They liked Gk because of the terminators as troops, Dreadknights, interceptors, and purifiers. All of said units were buffed by decreasing the point cost of the units, enabling you to field more of them, which was a primary problem before. You can get a lot more for your points now.

2. The Nemsis Strike formation ability to deepstrike on turn 1 while not necessarily appeasing to me all that well, is very appeasing to players who really like the idea of turn 1 alpha strikes with a ton of terminators backed up by shunting Knights and Interceptors. Before you had to wait a turn to deepstrike or get a rhino for your strike squads... that is no longer the case

3.The final reason being that they are amazing when combined with allies. I mean combined with allies I'm pretty sure your chances to win probably rises by a full 10%. They synergize so well with the top tier armies (SM, NECRONS, ELDAR) it's like "Happy New Year Everyday" I mean DraigoCenturion star is utterly crazy.. having the best 2 death stars in the game... Libby/Khan is absolutely crazy that you can now back up grav gun bikers with dreadknights and a solid and respectable libby star support squad. Draigostar/Wraithstar... is utterly crazy because you get an extremely fast headache death star backed up with Night scythes and ahinlation barges backing up dreadknights and a draigostar. Draigo Star Wave Serpent Spam grants you exactly what you wish you had in a waveserpent spam list... a strong central unit to rely on when your opponent gets close. DraigoStar/Wyvern guard grants guard a strong central unit to lead as your guardsman shoot the enemy from afar without being subject to most of the attention.

Really there is just no way not to be happy about this codex. It perfectly compliments 7th edition which is playing 2 armies half in half and enabling each armies strengths to help cover their main weaknesses..This is proably the best codex out the 3 daemonhunter/gk codexes, in terms of balanced units and consistently respectable results.

Trust me, the bandwagon is only getting longer... just like I said in my thread... this codex would probably change the meta in some manner

For me, the reason I am not saying much and I am sure others are not saying much is because there is little to say. There is very little to this codex, very little variation and mechanically far blander than it was before. I played a game with my GKs vs some nids and while I won, I realised that I'll probably be playing the same librarian/terminator/DKnight list over and over because that is all there is. yes I know there are strike squads, paladins, etc, I just believe that there GK codex is severely limited when it comes to viable lists now.

The reason is because with the exception of 5th edition GK players have had to be creative. Codex: Daemonhunters required creativity and adaptability and GK in 6th did as well. We never expected to roll through GTs, we just did the best we could with the tools we were given.