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In my "anti Forge World Climate" thread I mentioned how I was always under the impression that people were constantly judging me for the army I played, my age etc. Someone wisely pointed out it was less of a FW issue and more the fact I have some anxiety issues (I do.) Whenever I'm at my FLGS I always feel like I'm being judged. I end up feeling nervous about whether or not people think I'm a complete Donkey cave and usually that impacts my playing of the game (Forget about a rule and be too afraid to bring it up, count the wrong number of dice, afraid to take certain units lest I be declared TFG.) I am starting to get sick of it and it only ever happens if I'm the only person under 20 their. I like 40k I don't want to be constantly afraid of doing something wrong. Any tips?

Talk to the people at your store. Let them know how you feel and why. If they support you then you know you're amongst friends. If they don't, well you know that they're the problem.

In all honesty, most people at these clubs are happy to have people to game with.

If you meet some jerk who is a snob and judges people on appearances than you most likely don't want to game with them.

As an older person who enjoys this hobby, most mature adults are also relatively nice people, and won't bite your head off for little / no reason.

That being said, your general attitude towards people, genuinely wanting to have friendly / fun games where both participants have fun is really the most important factor.

Part of the previous statement is not always playing to win, it is important to have a list that isn't horrible, but at the same time running 3x knights / riptides / insert broken game unit / element will also get people turned off of having games with you. I tend to lump forgeworld stuff into this category since many of the units are blatantly overpowered and broken from a balancing perspective, UNLESS you use the model purely for aesthetic reasons.

In a perfect world that would be the best option. Unfortunately we live in an imperfect world with things like Hellraiser 4: Hellworld and the Ouya.

If I tell people "Don't judge me." I'll just come off as weird, abrasive or any number things, some dumb kid who wants to be treated differently. It's not bad advice, I just would botch that particular situation up pretty quickly.

I appreciate the help but I think confronting people for something that might all be in my head will have less than desirable results...

Let it go.

This kind of anxiety is far from uncommon - many 40k players are less well socialised than people in other hobbies, for whatever reasons.

I bet you that several of those older players feel just as much anxiety as you do about going in and being sociable. I also bet that very few of them are willing to admit it when confronted.

It's difficult, but it's part of going form being that awkward teenager to being part of the crew. You have to stop worrying about what they think of you.

I find that the British method is pretty effective: If you're worried about people taking the piss out of you, do it first. Actively make yourself the butt of the jokes. Nothing gets people to relax around you like showing them that you don't take yourself too seriously.

Also with the FW thing this is a separate issue I have. I felt like this long before I ran FW. But yeah other people at my club run FW super heavies and I got berated for running a medusa tank...

The more you play, and get accustomed with the store, and its people the less anxious you will feel.

force yourself to play, don't worry about what others will think of you.

if you are really worried about feeling like an ass hole the best way of reinforcing that you are not one is to try to remind your opponent about anything he or she missed. for instance my store has really low shelves under the tables for storing reserves, so people often forget that they brought anything in. I make it my mission to remind myself and my opponent about reserves.

If you worry about things then there is a tendency to make them happen. Whatever you do, do it with pride. If you are comfortable with who you are and what you're doing then other people will be comfortable with it too. If they aren't then they're probably the real donkey caves.

Don't let anyone make you feel that you don't deserve to enjoy the things that you like (and probably paid for). It doesn't matter if loads of other people like it, or it has been done before, or there is some stigma to it like WAAC. It isn't possible to be completely original. The best thing you can do is find what suits you and really own it.

A teenager filled with angst? I think the best solution is to become not a teenager anymore. Thankfully that will sort itself out in time.

That and try to do more social stuff, including keeping up with playing. The best way to get more comfortable in social settings is to spend more time in social settings. In the very least, people become less intimidating the more you get to know them, and at most, you'll get yourself socialized a little bit better.

We're sort of living in a digital world now where anyone under 30 is at risk of not having spent enough time around real people to be comfortable interacting with them. Thankfully, the solution is mostly just doing it a bunch until it seems more natural to you.

S'what worked for me, anyways.

I have a feeling this isn't so much a "40k discussion" as a "social anxiety" problem. It can be as simple as saying don't worry about what other people think and it can be as complicated as a serious emotional problem where telling someone that it's no big deal just makes it worse.

I don't have a lot of experience, I'm not a psychologist, but one of my friends had serious social anxiety problems. No matter how much you tried to reassure them they struggle immensely with it. People without such issues won't be able to relate.

don't take this the wrong way..but grow a ball bag, confidence is everything. Stand up for yourself, if you f^ck up then admit it, if you forgot something then admit it..if your opponent gets smug about it then tell him or her to get a life. mini gaming is just that, a GAME..i love my nerd time(gaming) but i won't let somebody make me feel lesser in day to day life, then in gaming..we are all human and like i said don't take my opening statement wrong man, curious how old are you? we have all been at your age

There is the old adage that if you act like you belong, people won't question that you belong.

I've got some anxiety issues that reared their head when I started warhammer 40k a few years back. What I've learned is that talking to those around you about things you're both interested about (Warhammer) helps a lot. Make friends with the managers, so you'll always have someone there you can talk to.

There are multiple possibilities where this might come from, from simple teenage insecurity to Asperger.

I personally found that from a certain age at about 18-20 it wasn't insecurity anymore, but that I think too much about everything and every possible outcome. If I do this will he react that way, and so on.

My personal remedy is to expose myself to such situations and experience how I manage to solve them. And if something creates unsatisfying situations too often I take precautions to evade them. E.g. I do not play in GW shops anymore and instead founded a local gaming club with a few guys. This is a stable and still diverse playing environment where I know that everyone's primary goal is to just have fun playing games.

If it hasn't been said, try and get someone to 'take you under their wing' if there's someone you get on with there then try and get extra 1 on 1 games with them, taking the time of going through each of the rules and why x amount of dice are rolled etc. I have fibromyalgia, this affects my short term memory and concentration and this is what I do to try and get the rules in my head so I'm confident enough to play random people without slowing proceedings down.

I have social anxiety issues too, I hate going to GW stores because of how they jump on you as soon as you walk in, and I've yet to go to a gaming club and play because of it. I'm doing CBT at the moment which is really helping, so maybe you could look into that. My confidence, while still not great, is miles better than it was. And to everyone saying 'just act like you belong, be confident' etc while I know you're trying to help it really isn't that easy when you have a genuine anxiety problem.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
I have a feeling this isn't so much a "40k discussion" as a "social anxiety" problem. It can be as simple as saying don't worry about what other people think and it can be as complicated as a serious emotional problem where telling someone that it's no big deal just makes it worse.

I don't have a lot of experience, I'm not a psychologist, but one of my friends had serious social anxiety problems. No matter how much you tried to reassure them they struggle immensely with it. People without such issues won't be able to relate.

Pretty much this, take it as a advice more than an insult, but you should look for professional help, try to talk with a psychologist, you need more that than an internet opinion (you know, where you cand ask about a head ache you have and the whole internet is going to tell you that you have a braintumor )
I use to be like this, have a lot of anxiety with so low selfesteem, it took me a lot of years to overcome this, and know, with a more mature mind and personality i wish some one, back then, told me the same i tell to you (and if a itell you how many opportunities with pretty girls i lost back then Know i have a beatiful girlfriend, we have 5 years together )
It is good to see people trying to help here, and i truly mean it, but this kind of advice you get here is, as example, It's like telling someone with depression "just stop to be sad, be happy"
On resume: seek professional help, talk this with your family, make the close people around you aware of how you feel, they gonna help you back, just dont keep it by yourself and the opinions in the internet, in fact its the worse you could make.
Good luck and hope you find a way in your problem, wish you the best my friend

My advice comes from experience. Common or garden social anxiety can be fixed by 'faking it' with confidence.

Eventually even you start to believe the lie. If, in two years time, you're still consciously aware of how much hard work being sociable is, you should upgrade 'Maybe I should talk to a counsellor' to 'I need to talk to a counsellor'.

Anxiety comes from within.

Everybody has social anxiety.

Like every fear, the best medicine is reality.

The reality that no matter how hard you try, not everyone will love you and not everyone will hate you.

The reality that even if you don't give a gak about anything, some people will like you anyway.

The reality that when you stop caring, you start being yourself and people who would have liked the real you now have a chance to.

Accept the reality and your fears will take a big hit.

Just showing up regularly will help ease your anxiety. Just go and watch for awhile and eventually you will start playing regularly.

I heard something else recently to keep in mind:

In your teens and 20's your are focused on what others think of you.

In your 30's, 40's, and 50's you no longer care what others think of you.

In your 60's and beyond you realize nobody was ever really thinking about you at all.

The lesson here is to not focus on the OTHERS just focus on being ok with YOURSELF.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Let it go.

I agree. I'd suggest trying to get into a non-competitive gaming group. It will be very intimidating at first, but once you've played a few games with the same crowd, I'm pretty sure you'll ease up.

 Insane Smile wrote:

I agree. I'd suggest trying to get into a non-competitive gaming group. It will be very intimidating at first, but once you've played a few games with the same crowd, I'm pretty sure you'll ease up.

I disagree.

It's always better to play with people who have the same mindset about the game as you do.

Competitive is inherently better than non competitive because competition is honest, whereas there are a lot of fake fluff lovers in the non-competitive world, hiding and creeping in the shadows to brutalize you with falsely fluffy armies while screaming bloody murder when you dare to field something good.

When I have an issue with something mid-game, I just picture my opponent naked. There's no way I'm getting worked up over what some overweight geek with the Batman symbol shaved into his belly-hair has to say about ANYTHING.

Ok...I'm playing around...but humor helps most situations...

Stop caring about what they think about you. Believe me its the best thing you can do, see even if you do everything perfect there's still a strong possibility some people will hate you for some stupid reason. Also I know quite a few genuine pricks that are universaly liked and respected, stockholm syndrome at work like omg this guy has to be something if he dares to humiliate us all heh. Life is funny like that.

Obviously what makes you nervous is your fear of social failure. Just accept that it's a possibility and like every failure, part of life and of a learning procces. Then imagine yourself in a worst case scenario, laughed off and cast out of that store of extraordinary individuals, what would you do? Break and kill yourself, or just show them a finger went to sleep and go somewhere else next day? Its really not end of the world and the fear is worse than the situation would be, when people hate you then at least situation is clear.

Not to mention there are 7 billion people on the planet. Youre not that important. Also, sorry to say that but phopia over possibly being a WAAC is a bit silly, youre not cheating, stealing models or pissing to chips. Playing to win and bringing good units is not immoral like all the fluff at all cost HAAC guys would like you to believe.

morgoth wrote:

 Insane Smile wrote:

I agree. I'd suggest trying to get into a non-competitive gaming group. It will be very intimidating at first, but once you've played a few games with the same crowd, I'm pretty sure you'll ease up.

I disagree.

It's always better to play with people who have the same mindset about the game as you do.

Competitive is inherently better than non competitive because competition is honest, whereas there are a lot of fake fluff lovers in the non-competitive world, hiding and creeping in the shadows to brutalize you with falsely fluffy armies while screaming bloody murder when you dare to field something good.

Good post.

Plumbumbarum wrote:
Just accept that it's a possibility and like every failure, part of life and of a learning process.

I'd go as far as to say, just accept it's a certainty.
Be ready to meet failure, accept it, know that you will fail and learn from it.

And that you will succeed some times too, because it's as impossible to be disliked by everyone as to be liked by everyone.
As it is impossible to not improve when you're honestly trying.

Think of it like WoW, no matter how bad you are you will be level 60 (95 now right) if you keep at it.
Here it's the same, except it's worth it.

 Smacks wrote:
If you worry about things then there is a tendency to make them happen. Whatever you do, do it with pride. If you are comfortable with who you are and what you're doing then other people will be comfortable with it too. If they aren't then they're probably the real donkey caves.

Don't let anyone make you feel that you don't deserve to enjoy the things that you like (and probably paid for). It doesn't matter if loads of other people like it, or it has been done before, or there is some stigma to it like WAAC. It isn't possible to be completely original. The best thing you can do is find what suits you and really own it.

This is essentially what I said in that other thread. Bludgeon people with your personality. If they don't like it, then that's their problem. If you feel that you do have an actual anxiety problem, as Miko said, see a counselor.

morgoth wrote:Competitive is inherently better than non competitive because competition is honest, whereas there are a lot of fake fluff lovers in the non-competitive world, hiding and creeping in the shadows to brutalize you with falsely fluffy armies while screaming bloody murder when you dare to field something good.

That assumes that everybody who considers themselves "competitive" players has the same definition of the word "competitive", which is blatantly untrue. Play to win is no less complicated than play for fun.

Furyou Miko wrote:Eventually even you start to believe the lie. If, in two years time, you're still consciously aware of how much hard work being sociable is, you should upgrade 'Maybe I should talk to a counsellor' to 'I need to talk to a counsellor'.

Or perhaps screen yourselves for membership for the autism spectrum club. It's a lot more common than people tend to think.

Problems socializing may wind up being as much genetic as anything else, and anecdotal evidence points to people with strong pattern recognition skills and poor social skills being naturally attracted to gaming (so, by being on this forum, you're probably more likely).

 Ailaros wrote:

morgoth wrote:Competitive is inherently better than non competitive because competition is honest, whereas there are a lot of fake fluff lovers in the non-competitive world, hiding and creeping in the shadows to brutalize you with falsely fluffy armies while screaming bloody murder when you dare to field something good.

That assumes that everybody who considers themselves "competitive" players has the same definition of the word "competitive", which is blatantly untrue. Play to win is no less complicated than play for fun.

Furyou Miko wrote:Eventually even you start to believe the lie. If, in two years time, you're still consciously aware of how much hard work being sociable is, you should upgrade 'Maybe I should talk to a counsellor' to 'I need to talk to a counsellor'.

Or perhaps screen yourselves for membership for the autism spectrum club. It's a lot more common than people tend to think.

Problems socializing may wind up being as much genetic as anything else, and anecdotal evidence points to people with strong pattern recognition skills and poor social skills being naturally attracted to gaming (so, by being on this forum, you're probably more likely).

1. Even if people don't play the same "competition", "bring your best list" is a lot more straightforward than "bring a fluffy list", which can easily be perverted in many ways.

2. Socializing is a matter of trial and error, like everything. If you have problems socializing today, it means you did not try enough yesterday. Intellectual skills tend to develop more when you're not using your brain for social skills, but they're really not incompatible. Genetics are only a very tiny factor and you shouldn't tell people they could belong in a box. Because they don't, the future is open and it's what you make with what you've got.

 Frozen Ocean wrote:
OP, it really sounds more like a social anxiety problem than a Forge World problem, and 30k is not even close to the power level of Tau or Eldar, so you really have no cause for worry.

Bring your Legionnaires. Bring Volkite. If people really are judging you because of your age (which they probably aren't), let them. If you're right about them, then they'll judge you no matter what you do, and you should give them no quarter. If you're wrong, then you're limiting yourself because of your false perception of being "judged". Either way it makes no sense to be limited.

morgoth wrote:1. Even if people don't play the same "competition", "bring your best list" is a lot more straightforward than "bring a fluffy list", which can easily be perverted in many ways.

But "best" is no less vague and subjective than "fluffy".

Unless you believe that all competitive players are WAAC players and that the definition of WAAC includes ANY cost, including poisoning your opponent before the game or murdering your opponent's loved ones to disrupt their concentration.

As it is "competitive" is as vague as it is subjective. Which are exactly the two problems that plague "fluffy" lists.