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Removing spears and lances on cavalry getting strength bonus after both units charge.  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
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Made in us
Calculating Commissar




pontiac, michigan; usa

So this is something that's been brought up and as stupid as it sounds after a cavalry unit beats an enemy in combat, runs them down and pursues into another enemy unit they also get the charge. So far this i don't mind. However in the other player's turn they choose to charge the cavalry unit. Now normally we agree if something gets charged in the flank or rear while it's charging the cavalry unit with spears/lances shouldn't get a bonus against an enemy that charged it in the flank or rear. However due to the rules it does. Even though the lances wouldn't be pointed that way and in some cases would be going in the opposite direction. In a case just today i didn't charge my plague censer bearers into a combat and was forced to lose the combat just because if i charged his cavalry in the rear my censers would get hit at strength 5 instead of 3 and would've been gibbed pretty hard. This should not happen esp. not after a pursuit into a new enemy after running another unit down.

So i propose that spears and lances don't get the bonus when a unit hits them on the flank or rear just as somebody doesn't normally get a parry to the flank or rear. This tends to happen enough in my games that it is fairly commonplace and i feel somebody shouldn't suffer for this weird rule.

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Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

This change doesn't make sense. Both units charged, they get the bonus.

Think of it as they hit each other simultaneously.

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Made in us
Calculating Commissar




pontiac, michigan; usa

 Grey Templar wrote:
This change doesn't make sense. Both units charged, they get the bonus.

Think of it as they hit each other simultaneously.


Did you read my full post? I said that if a unit charges cavalry with lances in the rear or the flank then the rear and flank side of the cavalry shouldn't get the lance bonus. The point is if cavalry overrun into another unit and the very next turn the other player charges them in the flank or rear they shouldn't get the lance bonus to their flank and rear. I'm totally ok with them getting the bonus to the front should i charge them in the front. To me this makes a lot of sense. I have never heard a lance formation pointed to the flanks and the rear as well as to the front. It's normally just to the front (or at least in all the movies). In this sense it's much like parry only working towards the front but not the flanks and rear.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/28 18:51:19


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Made in gb
Deva Functionary





So the cav overrun into unit A, getting a charge bonus against them in the following turn. That turn comes and cav get rear charged by unit B- so you say that cav unit gets the strength bonus against unit A and B? That seems... dumb.

Have to check rule book, but as the cav didn't charge unit B they shouldn't have any sort of charge bonus against them, only unit A, flank or rear be damned.
   
Made in au
Stubborn White Lion





Does this seriously come up that often?

Warhammer is the right of all sentient nerds!
 
   
Made in us
Killer Klaivex




Oceanside, CA

alex87 wrote:
Does this seriously come up that often?

It does when you run 23 point core units to block and redirect.
Only getting a lance bonus to the front seems reasonable to me.
-Matt

 thedarkavenger wrote:

So. I got a game with this list in. First game in at least 3-4 months.
 
   
Made in us
Evasive Eshin Assassin





I think it makes sense in terms of in-game logic.

But cavalry is fine as it is. It's not broken or anything. This adds yet another rule to a game that already has a ton, and for very little benefit.

You don't like charging Cavalry in the rear and getting all those S5 attacks on you? Charge them in the flank. Or just charge them in the rear and force all those Toughness tests with your Censer Bearers.
OR, you could let the cavalry charge one of your big infantry blocks, absorb the damage, and then charge in next turn.

Skaven should not fear cavalry. And they don't, short of Dragon Prince buses or Grailstars.

 
   
Made in us
Calculating Commissar




pontiac, michigan; usa

Eh i think it makes more sense this way. I mean we have no idea what 9th will do to the game considering all the changes of 8th. Perhaps they will do to bretonnia what they did to ogres (and they got boosted a crap ton).

I don't think it's much since you can't receive parry to flanks or rear and you can't even get parry if you have frenzy. It's not much different than this and in fact it makes even more sense. You can have those ridiculous shield walls '300' style or roman legion style where they're protected everywhere and could get parry everywhere (and i think dwarfs do get the bonus). I have never seen lances to the rear or flanks in anything however. It makes no sense. It just feels really dumb.

Besides if you turn it into a hero bus suddenly it might matter a bit as the heroes do damage while cavalry are hard to hurt.

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Made in us
Evasive Eshin Assassin





1. us having no idea what 9th will bring is more a point for not making any changes than anything else.

2. the shield wall in "300" didn't get their Parry bonus in the flank, because they never got charged in the flank, thanks to the terrain.
Dwarfs get +1 to Parry on the turn they are charged, but only to the front.

3. It makes sense. I'm not arguing that. But tons and tons of things make sense, and we can't implement them all. The game is complicated as it is. You could probably come up with a new house rule every game, until your adendums would be as big as the original rulebook.

4. imagine the cavalry charging in. And even as they charge in, another enemy unit counter-charges them. So what do those knights do? They could plunge their lances into their original target's ranks, or they could swing their weapons to the side as they clash with this new threat. It might be more difficult, sure (representing the enemy getting +2 CR and possibly disruption), but I guarantee that their momentum still adds to their attacks.
See? Your idea makes sense. But as-is works, too.

5. Characters do damage regardless of whether or not they get their S bonus against the flanking unit. The characters could either settle for S4-5 against them, or they could ignore the new threat and do exactly what they planned on doing in the first place: killing a whole bunch of dudes in the first unit.

 
   
Made in us
Tzeentch Aspiring Sorcerer Riding a Disc






Southern New Hampshire

I thought it already worked like the OP suggested. Huh.

I know it certainly USED to work that way, where you could only get a charge bonus against a unit you actually charged...

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Made in us
Evasive Eshin Assassin





You get the bonus for charging. If another unit also happens to be charging, you're still charging. Hell, you could even have two units of lance-wielding cavalry end up getting their +2S against each other.

 
   
 
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