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Hi all,

I've been lurking for a while and have decided to create an account and make my first post.

I have gotten back in to 40k after a 13 year hiatus and have a reasonably sized Blood Angels army. I've played a number of 6th and 7th edition games and I pretty much have the hang of it. Now I'm looking to begin a new army.

I've just purchased a copy of Space Hulk and the Terminators will be joining my Blood Angels army. I would really like to use the Genestealers from the set and build a new force to include them. Most of the games that I play are around the 1750 points mark and I aim to build and paint a new army around that size by the end of the year. I know very little about Tyranids, I just reckon they look cool and I am keen to paint some (plus I have a few models already).

I like the idea of a low number of models comprising mainly of big beasties. I don't play competitively, but I do like to win occasionally, so I'm looking for a fun list that I won't lose interest in due to being wiped from the table every game. I'm planning on starting with a small force (maybe 1 HQ and 2 Troops) and steadily increasing it's size.

How do you guys reckon I should proceed? What should I look at getting to start with?

Thanks,

-StolleMan-

depends if you want to play competitive or more fu.
if you like the big ones, maybe start with a hive tyrant, some tyrant guard, a few warriors, some minor bugs to fill up the gaps and 2-3 of the flyers. (crone) theyre quite competitive.Also Dakka Fexes seem to be the way of chioce nowadays

Cool!

A Hive Tyrant $90
3 Tyrant Guard $90
3 Warriors $65
3 Hive Crones $345
3 Carnifexes $213

TOTAL: $803

If I add my Genestealers and my Broodlord that makes roughly 1750 points.

If I start of with just one Crone and one Carnifex (I can add a couple more of each later), I will have roughly 1000 points to build from at less than $500. I like the sound of that.

2 flyrant is a must.
crones seem good on paper but they arent that good in reality. Definately get 3 flyrants before even considering getting a single crone.
warriors are terrible, only get them if you go with the living artilery node.
You need to have cover saves vs the nasty shooting from most armies nowadays so consider venomthropes.
add some sort of tarpit as your troop choice. Personally I go with terma / devilgaunts and deep striking rippers. lots of people use hormas but I find them really underwhelming when it comes to cc. genestealers are a big waste of points btw. look at it this way, would you rather screen your army with bodies that cost 4 points or 13 points ? They WILL get shot down so its only a matter of how many points you concede per shooting phase. Take a serious look at the tarpit effect and you should be on your way

StolleMan wrote:
Cool!

A Hive Tyrant $90
3 Tyrant Guard $90
3 Warriors $65
3 Hive Crones $345
3 Carnifexes $213

TOTAL: $803

If I add my Genestealers and my Broodlord that makes roughly 1750 points.

If I start of with just one Crone and one Carnifex (I can add a couple more of each later), I will have roughly 1000 points to build from at less than $500. I like the sound of that.

Not much to add...I always recommend for "starting out" That you grab the Tyranid Swarm box, a Tyrant, and a box of Warriors...I recommend you magnitise if you can...you'll almost certainly want the Tyrant to fly if you aren't "handy" enough to use magnets.

The swarm box contains a boatload of gaunts, a Brood of Gargoyles, and a Carnifex, toss in the Warriors, and a Tyrant, and you have a good "winnable" force for up to 1200 pts or less. Then you can add Big Bugs once you get a feel for what sort of army you like. If you build and play at 1000 or so, adding a Formation will sort of take you to 1750 "organicly".

Sadly Genestealers are currently badly overpriced for what they do. But that does not stop you from using them. You might add a Broodlord, if you can find one on sale. (or second hand. )

In any case... good luck! And welcome to the Hive Mind!

cyberjonesy wrote:
2 flyrant is a must.
crones seem good on paper but they arent that good in reality. Definately get 3 flyrants before even considering getting a single crone.
warriors are terrible, only get them if you go with the living artilery node.
You need to have cover saves vs the nasty shooting from most armies nowadays so consider venomthropes.
add some sort of tarpit as your troop choice. Personally I go with terma / devilgaunts and deep striking rippers. lots of people use hormas but I find them really underwhelming when it comes to cc. genestealers are a big waste of points btw. look at it this way, would you rather screen your army with bodies that cost 4 points or 13 points ? They WILL get shot down so its only a matter of how many points you concede per shooting phase. Take a serious look at the tarpit effect and you should be on your way

Trying to think of the nicest way to put this. I disagree? Yeah, that'll work.

Spamming Flyrants is cheesy and boring, Tyranids have a lot more to offer. Warriors are vital. 30 points for 3 T4 wounds, and options for good guns? Plus, good in melee? Plus, Synapse? I've used them in every single game since I started playing, and most people hate fighting them, as they never die, and kill a good amount of stuff.

Also, Genestealers have become more attractive since 7th Ed. A Broodlord gives you another warp charge, plus Pinning now prevents Overwatch. How is that not useful? And also, they Infiltrate, so your opponent will HAVE to deal with them right away or have something of theirs killed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
But, to answer the OP, if you want big, bad beasties, I recommend an Exocrine, as his shooting is extremely useful, a Trygon Prime, as they kill a crap ton of stuff and are hard as heck to kill, plus serve as a great distraction. Mawlocs are fun, if you can tag-team with lictors for maximum effect.

Also, if you REALLY want a badass MC, use the Swarmlord.

I am pretty handy with magnets, although I've gone a bit overboard lately and am thinking I need to make my models a little more static.

Is the swarmlord box the same as the hive tyrant, giving me the option to make both?

Warriors seem like a safe bet, maybe I will get a box of them and a hive tyrant to begin with. That will give me one HQ and two Troops.

I reckon I'm keen on monstrous creatures because I've never had access to them before.

 krodarklorr wrote:

cyberjonesy wrote:
2 flyrant is a must.
crones seem good on paper but they arent that good in reality. Definately get 3 flyrants before even considering getting a single crone.
warriors are terrible, only get them if you go with the living artilery node.
You need to have cover saves vs the nasty shooting from most armies nowadays so consider venomthropes.
add some sort of tarpit as your troop choice. Personally I go with terma / devilgaunts and deep striking rippers. lots of people use hormas but I find them really underwhelming when it comes to cc. genestealers are a big waste of points btw. look at it this way, would you rather screen your army with bodies that cost 4 points or 13 points ? They WILL get shot down so its only a matter of how many points you concede per shooting phase. Take a serious look at the tarpit effect and you should be on your way

Trying to think of the nicest way to put this. I disagree? Yeah, that'll work.

Spamming Flyrants is cheesy and boring, Tyranids have a lot more to offer. Warriors are vital. 30 points for 3 T4 wounds, and options for good guns? Plus, good in melee? Plus, Synapse? I've used them in every single game since I started playing, and most people hate fighting them, as they never die, and kill a good amount of stuff.

Also, Genestealers have become more attractive since 7th Ed. A Broodlord gives you another warp charge, plus Pinning now prevents Overwatch. How is that not useful? And also, they Infiltrate, so your opponent will HAVE to deal with them right away or have something of theirs killed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
But, to answer the OP, if you want big, bad beasties, I recommend an Exocrine, as his shooting is extremely useful, a Trygon Prime, as they kill a crap ton of stuff and are hard as heck to kill, plus serve as a great distraction. Mawlocs are fun, if you can tag-team with lictors for maximum effect.

Also, if you REALLY want a badass MC, use the Swarmlord.

I'm actually not sure if you're joking. Maybe your area has a very different meta than the norm.

Flyrants cheesy and boring? Not really. Flyrants are useful, fast, and efficient. One of the few places to get electroshock grubs, too - and the only one that can fly.

Warriors are not 'vital', unless you mean to unlock formations. They're neat, they're good in fun lists, but are NOT 'good'. I wish they were - I have 25 - but they die quickly to almost everything and cost too much. In both respects. They are, as above, a 'fun' choice.

Genestealers. ...No? Even with Broodlords. Again, fun choice for fun lists against fluffy opponents' lists. But still cost too many points, and die to everything. Think: Will this absorb a shooting phase plus overwatch and remain viable in even one combat? Probably not. Your opponent will deal with them, yes. Easily. And at a high cost to you. Want pinning? Take a few stranglethorn cannons, no Perils, longer range, plus you'll kill a few models too.

Exocrine - I like them. Good call.

Trygon Prime... Not a chance. Take a Flyrant with Devourers. Trygon's so many points for a model that excels only at killing infantry - which the rest of your army should be having no issues with already.

Mawlocs are fantastic.

Lictors are super fun, but suffer from 'lots of points, T4 and worthless armour save' syndrome.

Swarmy is powerful, but too slow and not competitive. I want to use the Swarmlord, but... he never makes it across the board :(




Automatically Appended Next Post:

StolleMan wrote:
I am pretty handy with magnets, although I've gone a bit overboard lately and am thinking I need to make my models a little more static.

Is the swarmlord box the same as the hive tyrant, giving me the option to make both?

Warriors seem like a safe bet, maybe I will get a box of them and a hive tyrant to begin with. That will give me one HQ and two Troops.

I reckon I'm keen on monstrous creatures because I've never had access to them before.

The Tyrant box will give you options for Swarmy or a Tyrant/Flyrant. Warriors are good to have, they'll fill a synapse hole well or allow you Formation access, just don't rely on them for killing anything more than light infantry. In a fun list, they're great. Don't put them up against Nobs, TH/SS Termies, Grey Knights, MC's ...etc.

MC's are a blast, and fun to magnetize. Carnifexes with dual TL-Devourers are possibly the best heavy support in the Codex. I am also a fan of the Tyrannofex, which many people view as a 'less than competitive choice' - but the only model with a 2+ save in the book.

Venomthropes. Buy two. They'll give you a 6" shrouded bubble, and increase MC survivability against low AP weapons significantly.

 krodarklorr wrote:

cyberjonesy wrote:
2 flyrant is a must.
crones seem good on paper but they arent that good in reality. Definately get 3 flyrants before even considering getting a single crone.
warriors are terrible, only get them if you go with the living artilery node.
You need to have cover saves vs the nasty shooting from most armies nowadays so consider venomthropes.
add some sort of tarpit as your troop choice. Personally I go with terma / devilgaunts and deep striking rippers. lots of people use hormas but I find them really underwhelming when it comes to cc. genestealers are a big waste of points btw. look at it this way, would you rather screen your army with bodies that cost 4 points or 13 points ? They WILL get shot down so its only a matter of how many points you concede per shooting phase. Take a serious look at the tarpit effect and you should be on your way

Trying to think of the nicest way to put this. I disagree? Yeah, that'll work.

Spamming Flyrants is cheesy and boring, Tyranids have a lot more to offer. Warriors are vital. 30 points for 3 T4 wounds, and options for good guns? Plus, good in melee? Plus, Synapse? I've used them in every single game since I started playing, and most people hate fighting them, as they never die, and kill a good amount of stuff.

Also, Genestealers have become more attractive since 7th Ed. A Broodlord gives you another warp charge, plus Pinning now prevents Overwatch. How is that not useful? And also, they Infiltrate, so your opponent will HAVE to deal with them right away or have something of theirs killed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
But, to answer the OP, if you want big, bad beasties, I recommend an Exocrine, as his shooting is extremely useful, a Trygon Prime, as they kill a crap ton of stuff and are hard as heck to kill, plus serve as a great distraction. Mawlocs are fun, if you can tag-team with lictors for maximum effect.

Also, if you REALLY want a badass MC, use the Swarmlord.

Yeah I just can't help but feel you are the first and only Tyranid player in your meta and people just haven't learned the very simple tricks to deal with them yet...or you play in a very low powered meta.

Spamming Flyrants is boring and slightly cheesy, you are right there. But Flyrants are the crutch the the Tyranid army, without them they codex only has one leg to stand on and falls apart rather quickly against a moderately decent opponent.

Warriors are okay...until you come up against a single S8 template which isn't that incredibly rare, or any S8+ weapon for that matter. The myth that every S8 shot that goes towards warriors is one that doesnt go towards your MCs is so overblown because of how expensive Warriors are, they cost far to much to just be distractions and if you buy upgrades like you suggest they QUICKLY become a points sink. They are best run as a small 3 man group with a stranglethorn for back up synapse and ObSec, also as apart of living artillery.

Genestealers are bad, doubly so with a Broodlord. A minimum squad of Stealers with Lord is 130 points, that is a lot of points to put into a unit with T4 5+Sv, infiltrate often means you get to deploy 6" forward from the rest of your army and just means you get into small arms fire before the rest of your swarm. The Horror is decent enough for pinning but as someone else said, just take a Stranglethorn on some backfield Warriors for pinning.

Trygons and Trgon Primes are awful, just a sad shell of what they used to be. They NEED the rerolls they used to get with Scything Talons. 6 attacks, 3 hits on average, 3 wounds...for 190/230 points...Yes you get some shooting and Synapse but they are really costly. I wouldn't say they are useless but they cost a lot of points for not a lot of damage output.

For the new Tyranid player I advise you to accept that most units in this codex will be leaving you feeling underwhelmed, you will probably feel after a couple of games that it wouldn't be so bad if you could field JUUUUUST a little more. If you are set on the army here are my picks for the slots;

HQ:
Flyrants
Deathleaper

Elites:
Zoanthrope
Venomthrope
Hive Guard (MAYBE)

Troops:
Warriors (MAYBE)
Termagants/Tervigons
Rippers (Best Choice)

Fast:
Hive Crones
Gargoyles

Heavy:
Mawloc
Exocrine
Carnifex
Biovore

Just make sure to take as many Flyrants as possible, I regularly play in a not so competitive meta with so many substandard units because damnit I love my Lictors and Haruspex, but they are just awful and in their Haruspex case worthless. I could make a decent Tyranid list but I have no desire at all to play that way. I started collecting this army in 3rd because I wanted to play a melee horde that charged up the table and threw themselves at the enemy. I didn't want to play a gun line with flying gun boats.

It seems like a Hive Tyrant will definitely be my first purchase. Obviously the meta is different from place to place and I am taking all suggestions onboard.

I am still keen on fielding mainly big gribblies, even at the expense of maximum efficiency. It's a shame that many people feel that genestealers aren't very good as I already have a unit of them.

If I get time, I'm going to pick up a hive tyrant tonight. I'm just going to have to figure out what each weapon actually is! I'm far more familiar with the weapons of the imperium.

The Twin Linked Devourers are not on the sprue for the Tyrant, if I recall correctly. I have a link in my signature to my P&M blog, which has a step-by-step for converting the Heavy Venom Cannon into the TLDEV, if you're interested in going that route.

Do you have the codex already? It has an image section on the weapons, and is relatively accurate to the models. I've sent you a PM.

If you want to use Genestealers then a small squad with a Broodlord can be used as cheap warlord that sits back. This leaves you free to use the hive tyrants more aggressively without risking your warlord.


For the rest it's quite basic.

Two flying hive tyrants. They are the backbone of most Tyranid armies.

A venomthropes or a Malanthrope is recommended.

Troops are all poor at best. One or two units of termagants/3 ripper bases and a box of warriors will do.

Heavy support is where the decent stuff is, you cant go wrong with Mawlocs, Dakkafexes, Exocrines and Biovores. The living artillery formation is really nice which can be made with the warriors.

One or two Crones/Harpies (easy to magnetize) are okay choices if you want to go flyer heavy or face a lot of vehicles.

It honestly makes me sad to read most of this stuff. It comes down to the same ting as Eldar. Anyone who is anyone only uses Wave Serpent with min squads of DAs simply because it's cheap Wave Serpents.....Why even play at that point? You're not playing "Eldar", you're playing Wave Serpents.

And no, my meta is about the same, though I stay away from actual tournaments. I've fought your generic, TAC lists of Tau, and won every time with Tyranids. I've practically tabled Eldar and Space marines, as well as Chaos. I also tabled my Blood Angel friend. The only army I have little chance of beating is my Dark Eldar friend, but with the changes in their new codex, hopefully I'll have a fighting chance.

If all you're going to be doing is running Devilgaunts with 3+ Flyrants with Devourers with the Living Artillery Node (Which, I admit, is my favorite formation), then why play Tyranids? They have an abundance of stuff that people overlook because oh no "It costs too much". I've tabled my Ork friend with a Trygon Prime practically doing all of the work.

I've also had warriors in combat with a variety of things, and I'll tell you guys what I've told my Ork friend. Yes, your unit can kill mine in CC (Powerfists will annihilate Warriors), thats why I have other things to deal with them. Gaunts. My termagaunts have wiped out Terminators as well, simply because they can't kill them all, meanwhile my Warriors target things that they can kill easily, which is pretty much anything besides a dedicated CC unit.

My friend complained that Meganobz cost a crap ton and can't take a Trygon Prime head on after it charged. Of course not. They're not meant to, but they will destroy anything ELSE they touch. Just send them after the right target.

It just pains me everytime I hear people only buying certain models because there's apparently no other way to play. At that point, why play the game?

So...nids are good because your opponents are bad?

Incidentally, the current nid book made me retire my 15k, 10 year old nid army. Take that as you will.

Listing decently competitive models for 'initial purchases' is a good way to start an army. Would a new player be happy (honestly) if told to load up on Genestealers and Warriors? I think those first games would include a feeling of frustration and hopelessness after being wiped out repeatedly.

At least this way, we have shared the current 'top units' for perusal - take them or leave them, it's good to have the information. If one knows the best and worst choices, one can make an informed decision about one's several hundred dollars worth of models. As I said, I have hundreds of dollars in Warriors alone kicking about, and if those were my first purchases? I may not have continued the army due to non-viability.

Buy Venomthropes!!!

-Redacted-

Also the Mawloc (big blast nom attack fo cheap) and the Tfex (toughest monster in the Codex 'sides flyers) are fairly good heavy support choices and give you more variety.

Hormagaunts are good for being fast and even more tarpitty/cannon-foddery than Gargoyles (cost less points and can be taken in bigger broods although MSU is usually the way to go)

Lictors might be good with the Deathleaper formation. I don't know yet, never seen it played.

The harpy is meh. The Hive Crone is an anti air option. Which is stupid since its "main weapon" is a template. It's best to just tackle the flyer and shoot it with a tentaclid. You actually have an okay chance to wreck a Stormraven or Vendetta that way. D3 str8 hits and 1 TL (seeking) haywire missile. I think the drool is just to help the poor stupid thing in case you come up against the one person in the whole game that has 0 flyers.

I can't, with a clear conscience, recommend the Haruspex. It's just too bad.

Genestealers are... not good. But I still think they can have a place in the army. They're an easy to place denial unit: They can go anywhere with outflank and infiltrate. They can go to ground then pop right back up with Synapse. They have rending claws to threaten pretty much everything. An abundance of high WS, high I attacks.

I think a mid sized brood of 10-15 with no upgrades (broodlord optional, it's up to your tastes) can be a good tool in the tool box. Kind of like a Mawloc. They are obsec so if your opponent wants to score that objective, they have to be removed. If they charge a pinned unit (or a unit that's already been assaulted by something else like gants or a fex/tyrant) that's trying to advance on them, they will tear it apart. And if you've got venom/malan support nearby they become durable against shooting with a 2+ or 3+ cover save.

Genestealers in a vacuum, against wave serpents, are terrible. Genestealers in a balanced 2000 point list can be downright terrifying.

You could feasibly "try" to force a T2 assault with a large unit with a Tyranid Prime with Maw-Claws/Rending Claws/whipsword and flesh hooks for grenades. But I think that is a bad idea and then you get into lots of debates on ppm effectiveness, upgrades, broodlords, efficiency and statistics.

I prefer to just view them and use them as they are meant to be: fragile, ambush predators. Hide, then attack when the opportunity presents itself.

Just my 2c.

 bocatt wrote:


Genestealers are... not good. But I still think they can have a place in the army. They're an easy to place denial unit: They can go anywhere with outflank and infiltrate. They can go to ground then pop right back up with Synapse. They have rending claws to threaten pretty much everything. An abundance of high WS, high I attacks.

I think a mid sized brood of 10-15 with no upgrades (broodlord optional, it's up to your tastes) can be a good tool in the tool box. Kind of like a Mawloc. They are obsec so if your opponent wants to score that objective, they have to be removed. If they charge a pinned unit (or a unit that's already been assaulted by something else like gants or a fex/tyrant) that's trying to advance on them, they will tear it apart. And if you've got venom/malan support nearby they become durable against shooting with a 2+ or 3+ cover save.

Genestealers in a vacuum, against wave serpents, are terrible. Genestealers in a balanced 2000 point list can be downright terrifying.

I prefer to just view them and use them as they are meant to be: fragile, ambush predators. Hide, then attack when the opportunity presents itself.

Better to hear this than most of the other advice here.

 krodarklorr wrote:
It honestly makes me sad to read most of this stuff. It comes down to the same ting as Eldar. Anyone who is anyone only uses Wave Serpent with min squads of DAs simply because it's cheap Wave Serpents.....Why even play at that point? You're not playing "Eldar", you're playing Wave Serpents.

And no, my meta is about the same, though I stay away from actual tournaments. I've fought your generic, TAC lists of Tau, and won every time with Tyranids. I've practically tabled Eldar and Space marines, as well as Chaos. I also tabled my Blood Angel friend. The only army I have little chance of beating is my Dark Eldar friend, but with the changes in their new codex, hopefully I'll have a fighting chance.

If all you're going to be doing is running Devilgaunts with 3+ Flyrants with Devourers with the Living Artillery Node (Which, I admit, is my favorite formation), then why play Tyranids? They have an abundance of stuff that people overlook because oh no "It costs too much". I've tabled my Ork friend with a Trygon Prime practically doing all of the work.

I've also had warriors in combat with a variety of things, and I'll tell you guys what I've told my Ork friend. Yes, your unit can kill mine in CC (Powerfists will annihilate Warriors), thats why I have other things to deal with them. Gaunts. My termagaunts have wiped out Terminators as well, simply because they can't kill them all, meanwhile my Warriors target things that they can kill easily, which is pretty much anything besides a dedicated CC unit.

My friend complained that Meganobz cost a crap ton and can't take a Trygon Prime head on after it charged. Of course not. They're not meant to, but they will destroy anything ELSE they touch. Just send them after the right target.

It just pains me everytime I hear people only buying certain models because there's apparently no other way to play. At that point, why play the game?

You are confusing a competitive spam build like Wave serpents with the restrictions the Tyranid codex imposes on the players. Nids are very dependent on synapse and 7th edition is heavily favors shooting, even for the Nids. Most of the light armored close combat units lack frag grenades, and footslogging close combat MCs won't make it across the board with their 3+ saves. Pretty much half the units in the codex are at best of situational use in large point games in casual settings.

The advice in thread that separates the weat from the chaff is quite useful for someone deciding where to spend their money on.

I actually don't hate Genestealers, but I think if you're going to take them, you need to use them carefully and take a decent amount of them. There's no point to Genestealers being a bullet bag for other units, since they are so expensive you might as well just have taken more "other units". You have to take enough Genestealers and use them in a way that some of them actually get in to combat otherwise you're just burning points and should have taken Termagants.

Warriors... suck. Before 7th the main reason to take them was they were the only Synapse in the troops slot, with 7th edition that doesn't matter as much, take more Termagants/Hormagaunts/Rippers to unlock another CAD and just take more Zoanthropes.

Warriors die to S8 shooting and they also die to massed AP4 (Heavy Bolters and the like). A single S8 shot will kill a 30+pt Warrior, a S8 template could kill multiple, might as well have spent the points on another Carnifex who costs 30pts per wound naked or 37.5pts per wound with TL devourers.

The only good think about Warriors is they are Synapse, but they're so delicate that they aren't reliable Synapse anyway, a Leman Russ drops a template on them and there goes your Synapse.

Thanks for all the info guys, so much to take in!

I picked up a Hive Tyrant and he is 3/4 assembled using magnets. I'm thinking I may pick up a couple of carnifexes next and perhaps an exocrine. The real struggle is picking the troops.

Pick up the Tyranid swarm box set. Basically you are getting a free Carnifex and Gargoyles with all those gaunts.

If you don't want gaunts then I guess it will not be good for you, but I never seen a Tyranid army without any gaunts at all.

Thing about Nids is that you have to decide what you want to build your list on.

The first purchase I always recommend is the Flyrant, people praise them for good reason.

Then you have to think about where you want your Nids to go. Skyblight? Then you'll want to invest in Gargoyles, Harpies/Crones and Ripper Bases. Ground Based lists will want to look at Gaunts, Thropes and Heavy Support.

Warriors have their place in an army, they are not bad per se, but you really need to spend minimal points on them (ie, basic Biocannon and be done with them). As someone said, they rapidly become a points sink if you invest too much in them. They can make their points back quite easily if you just sit back and fire off Barbed Strangler shots with them. If you're looking for CC Warriors, you really want Shrikes who are faster and therefore get there quicker. I will say this about Tyranids that people seem to be debating - a S8 shot fired at your Warriors (who can get a cover save) will make their points back simply for being the target instead of the Gaunts or MC's, who are the heavy hitters in the dex.

Genestealers are again, not bad- it's just the current edition does not suit them. If they could Outflank and charge in the same turn, they would no doubt be a good choice - they are extremely vicious in CC. As it stands, they need to take some shooting and T4 5+ isn't that tough to take out.

Think about your units and how they compliment each other. Gaunts for example have short-range guns, so how might you utilize them? You can run them up with your army in large blobs so that you have some shots when you get there, or you can put them in front of your TMC's and give them a cover save, which can be further increased by Venom/Malanthropes, or simply having a toe in terrain.
How might you use Biovores? A group of Warriors with a Biocannon can fire shots off with the Biovores while providing Synapse for them. What about Hive Crones? FMC's in general work better when you have more than one so the opponent has more threats to deal with. How do we make the MC's more survivable or faster? Zoanthropes with Psychic Powers and Venomthropes/malanthropes with Shrouded. Gargoyles? A group of 20 wounds can catch and tie up that one Wraithknight that is about to chomp all over your MC's. (About Gargoyles and Gaunts in general, you have an abundance of tarpit units to remove units from commission or the game by locking them in CC with lots of wounds to get through, use this to your advantage to pick off the rest of the opponents army and capture objectives). Synergy is key to winning with Nids - you don't have power lists such as SerpentSpam, FarsightBomb, CenturionStar or DropPods, so you need to have force multipliers within your army.

I have also included a link to the Tyranids Tactic Page on Dakka so you can get advice there.

I realise that you are no 'newb' to 40k - but this is a new army so I reasoned that some tactics might help you out a bit while you get to grips with them.

@your question: Carnifexes and Exocrine's are particulary good Heavy Support options to take in an army. For Troops, I like running basic Hormagaunts - sometimes with Biomorphs sometimes not, depends what I need them to do. Generally Nids work like Orks: boyz over toyz.

I will say this about Tyranids - expect to lose. I say this as you are just starting out and Tyranids are not an easy army to master. However, once you become proficient with them and learn how to play them, you will be a much better tactician than if you had played more forgiving armies.

Frozocrone wrote:


Warriors have their place in an army, they are not bad per se, but you really need to spend minimal points on them (ie, basic Biocannon and be done with them). As someone said, they rapidly become a points sink if you invest too much in them. They can make their points back quite easily if you just sit back and fire off Barbed Strangler shots with them. If you're looking for CC Warriors, you really want Shrikes who are faster and therefore get there quicker. I will say this about Tyranids that people seem to be debating - a S8 shot fired at your Warriors (who can get a cover save) will make their points back simply for being the target instead of the Gaunts or MC's, who are the heavy hitters in the dex.

Genestealers are again, not bad- it's just the current edition does not suit them. If they could Outflank and charge in the same turn, they would no doubt be a good choice - they are extremely vicious in CC. As it stands, they need to take some shooting and T4 5+ isn't that tough to take out.

That's the thing I feel people are ignoring here. If they're firing battle cannons and melta guns are Warriors (Which almost always have at least a 3+ cover anyway), then that's wasted firepower that isn't going towards other things. My girlfriend has wasted Lascannons and melta guns trying to kill them, and still has never wiped them out doing so.

One thing about Tyranids that I've noticed quickly when starting to play them, is you have to give your opponent many options in which they have to deal with, and hope they shoot at distraction units. Yeah, Warriors are good Synapse, but are instagibbed by S8. Okay? Like I said, they've been extremely survivable in every game I've played, meanwhile my other stuff isn't getting shot at.

 krodarklorr wrote:

Frozocrone wrote:


Warriors have their place in an army, they are not bad per se, but you really need to spend minimal points on them (ie, basic Biocannon and be done with them). As someone said, they rapidly become a points sink if you invest too much in them. They can make their points back quite easily if you just sit back and fire off Barbed Strangler shots with them. If you're looking for CC Warriors, you really want Shrikes who are faster and therefore get there quicker. I will say this about Tyranids that people seem to be debating - a S8 shot fired at your Warriors (who can get a cover save) will make their points back simply for being the target instead of the Gaunts or MC's, who are the heavy hitters in the dex.

Genestealers are again, not bad- it's just the current edition does not suit them. If they could Outflank and charge in the same turn, they would no doubt be a good choice - they are extremely vicious in CC. As it stands, they need to take some shooting and T4 5+ isn't that tough to take out.

That's the thing I feel people are ignoring here. If they're firing battle cannons and melta guns are Warriors (Which almost always have at least a 3+ cover anyway), then that's wasted firepower that isn't going towards other things. My girlfriend has wasted Lascannons and melta guns trying to kill them, and still has never wiped them out doing so.

One thing about Tyranids that I've noticed quickly when starting to play them, is you have to give your opponent many options in which they have to deal with, and hope they shoot at distraction units. Yeah, Warriors are good Synapse, but are instagibbed by S8. Okay? Like I said, they've been extremely survivable in every game I've played, meanwhile my other stuff isn't getting shot at.

No! Just no! This is wrong! Warriors are not cheap enough to play that role. For 90 points you can buy three warriors which is effectively 3 wounds against S8 shooting, that is not cost effective at all given how little damage output they have without upgrades, with upgrades they become so expensive for is still effectively a single wound.

Don't even get me started on the possibility of a S8 pie plate, which really aren't that uncommon even if you don't play against them.

If Warriors were 20 points a piece then I would be behind this line of though 100%, but as it is they are to expensive to play that role very well PLUS a smart opponent wont shoot at them with S8 weapons until they are the last target because they aren't a threat. If you deck them out to make them threats then they will and they will cost FAR to much.

Okay, so why use Wave Serpents because Lascannons can explode them? They're extremely overcosted because of that.

Or why field a Wraithknight because Grav Guns, Snipers, and poison? He's extremely expensive just to be killed.

Or why should Dark Eldar play at all? Because their vehicles can be killed by Bolt pistols.

In fact, why play anything, since it can all be killed pretty easily?

Because all of those things are more than capable of fighting back and inflicting a lot of damage. And/Or rapidly transporting units which are also threats.

Warriors are only really threatening in close combat (and only when upgraded with expensive weapons). However they are too slow to make it into combat on their own terms, and lack any kind of option to improve this.

Played offensively, their only option is to slowly bumble their way across the table. Hoping to be ignored in favor of scarier units.
Given that just about every class of weapon is at least moderately effective against them, they aren't going to have a great time. Bolters struggle to harm monstrous creatures, and if someone fires a lascannon into your termagants then you laugh. However both of those things can wreck warriors.

Playing them defensively (min sized squad with a barbed strangler sitting in your backfield) is about the only way to make them work.

The idea behind taking a unit for the purpose of absorbing hits is that the absorbing unit has to be a more immediate threat AND less points per wound than "other things" in your army that are less immediate threats and cost more per wound. They also have to be things that aren't integral to your gameplan.

If you're taking Warriors because they're synapse and you want to plug synapse holes in your army, this is bad because if your enemy targets them early you're left with synapse holes.

If warriors aren't being taken for synapse (you have other things covering the synapse) then they are not immediate threats and they are very costly per wound so don't do a good job as a distraction unit. I said it earlier:

Warriors die to S8 shooting and they also die to massed AP4 (Heavy Bolters and the like). A single S8 shot will kill a 30+pt Warrior, a S8 template could kill multiple, might as well have spent the points on another Carnifex who costs 30pts per wound naked or 37.5pts per wound with TL devourers.

So what I was getting at, if you're taking them as bullet bags for MC's, you really should just take more MC's. What's a better bullet bag for a Carnifex than another Carnifex? Then you have the fact it's not JUST S8 shooting they suffer from, it's also massed AP4 shooting, so your opponent doesn't even have to dedicate their S8 to the Warriors if they have a few Heavy Bolters lying around.

That means they can't work as S8 target saturation because your opponent doesn't NEED to use S8 against them. If you take 3 Carnifexes, that's 12 wounds that need to be taken out with high S weapons. If you take 2 Carnies and 4 Warriors, that's 8 wounds that need to be taken out with high S weapons but then the 4 warriors can be either taken out with high S weapons or low S weapons... so instead of your opponent going "ZOMG I DON'T HAVE ENOUGH LASCANNONS!" they go "ZOMG... oh wait, I have all these other guns here as well".

Warriors simply aren't scary enough and cost too much to be considered a good distraction unit. They can be killed by a variety of weapons so don't work for target saturation. They are too easily killed to be good at filling holes in your synapse.

Nearly finished my Hive Tyrant. I reckon he's coming along ok, painting isn't my strong suit.
Still haven't decided on troops, will be picking up some carnifexes next and hopefully an exocrine.
Then I'm thinking venomthropes and some troops after that.

StolleMan wrote:
Nearly finished my Hive Tyrant. I reckon he's coming along ok, painting isn't my strong suit.
Still haven't decided on troops, will be picking up some carnifexes next and hopefully an exocrine.
Then I'm thinking venomthropes and some troops after that.

Looks dang nice!