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Wondering if non-blob AM is competitive in the current meta, also looking for feedback on this list specifically please.


HQ - Knight Commander Pask
Leman Russ Punisher (Pask) w/ H-Bolter, H-Stubber, Sponson H-Bolters, Dozer Blades
Leman Russ Executioner w/ H-Bolter, Sponson Plasma Cannons, Dozer Blades
Leman Russ Executioner w/ H-Bolter, Sponson Plasma Cannons, Dozer Blades

Troops - Demolitions Vet Squad w/ 3x Melta Guns
Transport - Chimera w/ H-Bolter & Multi-Laser

Troops - Demolitions Vet Squad w/ 3x Melta Guns
Transport - Chimera w/ H-Bolter & Multi-Laser

Troops - Demolitions Vet Squad w/ 3x Melta Guns
Transport - Chimera w/ H-Bolter & Multi-Laser

Troops - Vet Squad w/ 2x Flamers, Heavy Flamer, Heavy Bolter
Transport - Chimera w/ H-Bolter & Multi-Laser

Troops - Vet Squad w/ 2x Flamers, Heavy Flamer, Heavy Bolter
Transport - Chimera w/ H-Bolter & Multi-Laser

Fast Attack – Vendetta w/ 3x TL-Lascannons

Fast Attack – Vendetta w/ 3x TL-Lascannons

Fast Attack – Vendetta w/ 3x TL-Lascannons

Haven't seen a lot of buzz for the AM recently, very few army lists go up for them. As for this list, besides the obvious low model count, you have lots of anti-tank, infantry, and air. This list is a great all comers and shouldn't be completely shut out by any one thing.

I agree.

It feels kind of bloated with Demolitions on all of those vets, and Flamers really waste the BS4 potential of Veterans. Give them Melta or Plasma guns instead. Heavy Bolters are probably the worst weapon you can give a HWT, so consider dropping those.


With the points you'd save dropping the Demo and Heavy Weapons, give the Flamer squads Plasma Guns and add a Wyvern.

Demolitions are so close to fire-off that it is a high risk of being a suicide squad. Anything I would field with that option I would want the points to be at a minimum.

Agreed that anything with BS 4 should be doing some direct shooting or you are wasting points. If you go to plasma which is a good all-rounder the upgraded armor would be helpful for those failed gets-hot moments.

Templates and blast is for the BS 3, I think the armored walkers with plasma are a deal.

The Wyvern is too good rules-wise to pass-up so field at least one. It is a better deal than a Hvy Weapon squad of mortars which seems unfair since that would be the only weapon worth having for that squad (need to hide due to poor morale and no sgt). Oddly with all those special rules, by the numerous number of hits this thing works great on marines as well: try one out.

I would try to get a normal foot slogger platoon in to hold your line and possibly some conscripts (with priest!) to screen some of your tanks.

Typically veteran squads I like to get a lascannon on them, missile as second choice.

Autocannon is the go-to for the normal BS3 guys on the ground and missile is OK since you can template if you want and still have some armor killing strength.

The executioners are expensive but that squad would certainly hurt!

I would throttle back to maybe 2 Vendettas since they are not as much of a "deal" but armor/aircraft would die handily to those but would be wasted on horde armies.

Something worth thinking of: 5 man Tempestus Scions with meltas deepstriking in. Good suicide vehicle killer.

Every time I see BS 3 I think template, blast, twin-linked or multiple-shots. After that it is the various command squad orders that help.
That has been my guide for weapon selection for the guard.

That does help , thanks!

Why does Pask have HB sponsons? MMs and LC fit his primary roll of AT and AMC much better. Also not sure what target you think you need to fire 10 twinlinked Plasma Cannons that reroll 1s to wound at? I would drop the 3rd tank unless you're taking a tech priest for PoTMS with the unit targetting 3 units.

I would strip down the Vets take Tauroxes they are more competitive due to price and ATV rule and the fact you can actually fire all those special weapons without getting out. Drop the demolitions and HB weapon teams that nets you 370 points with no real loss in damage output. I would get a 6th Vet squad and I would go 6 with trip melta. With the changes to Pask that costs you 170 points leaving 200. Just enough for 3 Wyverns. Now you have more AT (enough to seriously worry 5 Knights) and more AI (Wyverns are dumb) whilst maintaining lots of AMC and gain more scoring all of which can plow into terrain at will grabbing VPs in the early game.

A lot of it makes sense, but chimera's do have 2 fire points to the taurox's 3.

peteralmo wrote:
A lot of it makes sense, but chimera's do have 2 fire points to the taurox's 3.

IMO keep the Chimeras, they're still better.

AV11 is garbage. Marines get away with it because everybody inside can rely on power armor to keep them alive. Guardsmen melt away if you look at them funny, so part of the skill you develop should be keeping your comparatively strong front armor on your Russes and Chimeras pointed toward the biggest threats.

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:

peteralmo wrote:
A lot of it makes sense, but chimera's do have 2 fire points to the taurox's 3.

IMO keep the Chimeras, they're still better.

AV11 is garbage. Marines get away with it because everybody inside can rely on power armor to keep them alive. Guardsmen melt away if you look at them funny, so part of the skill you develop should be keeping your comparatively strong front armor on your Russes and Chimeras pointed toward the biggest threats.

7th Ed is about mobility there is no way to protect the side of your Chimeras against a good player unless you are giving up on VPs and playing to table. Chimeras are no where near as good as Taurox due to the points difference. A reliable cover save is going to make more difference than 1 turn of AV12.

In a competitive 7th Edition setting Tauroxes out perform Chimeras every time.

 FlingitNow wrote:

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:

peteralmo wrote:
A lot of it makes sense, but chimera's do have 2 fire points to the taurox's 3.

IMO keep the Chimeras, they're still better.

AV11 is garbage. Marines get away with it because everybody inside can rely on power armor to keep them alive. Guardsmen melt away if you look at them funny, so part of the skill you develop should be keeping your comparatively strong front armor on your Russes and Chimeras pointed toward the biggest threats.

7th Ed is about mobility there is no way to protect the side of your Chimeras against a good player unless you are giving up on VPs and playing to table. Chimeras are no where near as good as Taurox due to the points difference. A reliable cover save is going to make more difference than 1 turn of AV12.

In a competitive 7th Edition setting Tauroxes out perform Chimeras every time.

And yet, they're never used because bolters can wreck them no matter where they're being shot from, so yeah, they suck total ass. Additionally, blah blah blah, hyperbole, random mathhammer facts, yadda yadda yadda.

Chimeras are fine, they've been fine. The extra points IM pays for them now matter little, and also, flamers in vet squads are fine. Two meltas/plasmas for nasty bs4 shooting out of the top hatch and the flamer for overwatch for the inevitable charge; didn't always feel this way, but I've opened my eyes to the possibilities.

Mech vets are good still, as they've been for a while now. Now with vehicles being harder to explode, our troopers run a very small risk of being killed by an exploding transport. Coupled with the cheaper Russ chassis and wyverns...yeah, lol. I love running a mech list now.

And yet, they're never used because bolters can wreck them no matter where they're being shot from, so yeah, they suck total ass. Additionally, blah blah blah, hyperbole, random mathhammer facts, yadda yadda yadda.

Bolters can't hurt AV11. The Taurox is more survivable against bolters than Chimeras. The reason you don't see them at tournaments is 2 fold. Firstly most tournament players are sheep and the better guard players already had lots of Chimeras so they stuck with them and the sheep followed. Secondly tournaments aren't playing 7th Ed as most of the players and organisers are scared of tactical play and flexible list building and would prefer for the old netlists and dice luck being the only factors in victory.

Chimeras are fine, they've been fine. The extra points IM pays for them now matter little, and also, flamers in vet squads are fine. Two meltas/plasmas for nasty bs4 shooting out of the top hatch and the flamer for overwatch for the inevitable charge; didn't always feel this way, but I've opened my eyes to the possibilities. 

You're right Chimeras are fine but they need dozerblades to even begin to compete with Tauroxes and then you're looking at a 20 point difference which is very significant. It's not that Chimeras are bad it is just they are not as efficient as Tauroxes in 7th Ed. In 6th where you could gunline for most of the game and that front AV mattered then the Chimeras were better in 7th they are not.

If I am running mech vets, then I always run Demolitions. If you take the demolition charge out of the equation, you are basically paying 3 points per model for melta bombs! There is no other codex that can get melta bombs that cheap. So you can be very versatile with the demolition charge. If you go in with the mindset that it was a free add on... and if you do not use it, no harm no foul... then you will always be happy.

I play a ton of MC lists and vehicle heavy lists! So that may be the issue for me. In fact, I had one of these squads in a stormraven assault a Imperial Knight and kill it off! I mean he was able to kill 3 dudes with his D weapon, but that is still 7 attacks with melta bombs. I got 5 hits (above average) and everyone of them pinned! So I essentially blew it up. Mind you my squad was then dead, but 110 point squad dead for a Imperial Knight is nothing to laugh at! I only run 2 meltas...

I'm admittedly not a seasoned guard player, I have only just started list building for them, and am benefiting greatly from hearing all the debate. That said, I think there are great points being made on each side. I think the problem is people have very different notions about what optimal play is based on how and where they play the game. The taurox vs chimera example is perfect in this regard. Flingitnow is correct in observing that in 7th edition, especially playing with tactical objectives, something as boring and mundane as terrain tests should be a major consideration. Now if you don't take that into account, if you're a player who plays more causally, say just FLGS stuff, you're less apt to see the NEED to consider terrain over the fact that the chimera is just a superior vehicle in a vacuum. I know no one will do this, but I almost feel like all of us on these forums should add a preface before critiquing lists in which we say something like, for a NOVA or GT I would do this, but for an FLGS I might do this or this etc.