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Dear Dakkanians

most of the topics i fly over while reading the forum are about
- my sisters of battle will never get an update, my cc units suck, gw is to expensive, gw will go down etc etc etc...

i tried to find a reason for myself why many eople including myself are often so frsutrated about the hobby.
im now 29 years old, i had the first experience with 40 k when i was 14. There was a shopping mall in the city i lived that had a small stock of gw products.
i bought some marines and tried to paint em yellow with red shoulder pads, but had no clue what the game was all about.
this went until i was 17 and visited my first gw in frankfurt am main in germany.
guys inside where scary and i realy didnt match any of em so i got off and my minis slept on the roof for about 5 years.
when i left my parents home i tried to collect them between old christmas needls and decoration and managed to save some catachans the marines and some other stuff.
then the hobby again went asleep until i was 26.
i met a client at the hospital im working in and he was clearly a fan.
we talked alittle and i went back, but this time more professional.
when i buy stuff i do so while a) i want it b) it is good gamewise.
when i paint miniatures i read airbrush tutorials, tutorials for painting diffrent parts of em, i have stuff here enough to make up forgeworld design studio.
what i want to tell...
the magic is gone.
when i go to my flgs or gw store im still happy about new releases or happy when a wayland package arrives.
but why is the thrill gone?
maybe the same reason i dont like world of warcraft anymore?
maybe the same reason i dont have the time anymore i had before?
we all grow up.
many people are long time in the hobby.
when i talk nowadays to friends and ask for a game we have to set you a match 2-3 months before we do it and even then it.. difficult.
i was in afghanistan for 7 times, have to pay the rent for car, house, phone, insurance etc...
maybe just the priorities changed?
sure its easy to say...

gw is bad they made this, they changed that... I DONT LIKE HAMHAMHAM!!!!!!!

maybe WE changed?not gw?
just a thought that came to me

Age is irrelevant.

Sounds to me like you never really had a genuine interest in the hobby anyway.

Anecdotes are not fact, sorry OP.

edit - LOL @ all the salty hate to this post. OP occasionally games and buys models over the course of many, many years - doesn't seem so enthusiastic to me. If he really enjoyed this hobby, he'd have done a lot more, in my opinion.

Funny how my new avatar has resulted in so much negativity toward me lately. In the forum and in PMs. I wonder why that is? *rolls eyes*

It's actually irrelevant whether or not GW changed or the largest tabletop gaming dollar demographic ever (the children of the babyboomers) changed. The end result is the same. There is now a disconnect between GW's offerings and the demand of their former targets.

If I was on the GW board and it become obvious that the demographic who launched GW into being the largest miniature manufacturer ever was growing and changing, I'd design a strategy to both appeal to an aging audience and make products that are appealing to a teenage audience in an aspirational sense. I certainly wouldn't just shrug my shoulders, give up and let my revenue slide and watch the market flood with competitors who are willing to cater to these 30-somethings that have a lot of money to spend on games.

I think there is some truth in this, GW's target demographic has got younger as the generation that grew up through the 'golden age' of the late 80's and 90's has got older. TBH I think it is probably a bit of both; getting less excited about things which really you have seen before, as GW just travels in circles, while other priorities of adult life get in the way.

But, I think more generally like anything in life the 'buzz' and excitement surrounding something diminishes after you do something often. The joy and thrill of discovering a good album or video game will gradually settle, although I think this can be replaced by other feelings which can compensate to an extent.

I generally try out new games to give the wargaming 'buzz' - discovering a good new miniature line, a new way of playing in terms of game mechanics or game style, those things can compensate to an extent. The danger there though is trying too many new things, and not settling on one to experience it to the fullest!

There is just more competing for our spare time and cash.

If a "hobby" starts presenting an "irritant" like increased cost or strange rule changes, it can be dropped rather readily for something more shiny.

"Getting old" from a 29 year old vs. a 45, you spend more time trying to keep your hobbies in line with your old friends for something fast and fun.

GW's demographic target may be different, their method to make people excited may be different than your needs. So do not get upset if the "thrill" is gone. It means you are ready to focus on something different that does.

I still like building the models and painting, get a good game of 40k in on occasion. Play Battletech a few times and make scores of lances. Ran out to play quick games of X-wing and even custom painted a couple duplicates for kicks.

My vision is a little further away, sitting too long hurts my legs, driving an hour to see friends makes you cranky enough that you schedule the whole day to play. Getting old is to find "real" fun and not settle for jollying yourself into something "OK" because it all gets old in a real hurry.

The problem might be that you've never really had a consistent group to play with. I get that way with games if I don't have a group.

MTG: for the past 2 years I've had a great group that made playing a ton of fun. We all structured our decks around being as streamlined and competitive as possible. Now that we've gone separate ways for the most part, several of us don't play as much as.

Several video games have gone the same way. When I was part of groups that played together, we all enjoyed the game more.

 PrehistoricUFO wrote:
Age is irrelevant.

Sounds to me like you never really had a genuine interest in the hobby anyway.

and you know this because...?

I've not had the same experience as you, but like you my interest in the hobby (was mostly the "40k" hobby for the first decade) has waxed and waned over 20 years in the hobby. I can't tell if your main problem now is just lack of interest, changing priorities or inability to find time for the hobby in your current life situation.

Either way, it's probably not just you/us or just GW.

I think my case demonstrates this, GW and I were probably always on slightly different paths, it's just that we started out close to each other and diverged more and more over time. In my beginning (early 90's) 40k was already a product with a premium price, but it was manageable, the fluff was great and creativity and scratchbuilding were still encouraged in stores and in WD.

As the years went by, I began to indulge my interest in other minis and games more and more. GW kept raising it's prices and emphasizing use of GW kits in all aspects of the hobby rather than creativity and scratchbuilding. Eventually we were just too far apart.

 PrehistoricUFO wrote:
Age is irrelevant.

Sounds to me like you never really had a genuine interest in the hobby anyway.

Anecdotes are not fact, sorry OP.

I'd reply with the first thought that came to mind, but I fear it would get me banned.

Instead, have you heard of the No True Scotsman fallacy?

To the OP, and to expand on what's already been said, there's a train of thought that 40K's rules are more geared towards a developing teen or preteen mind. Loads of stats to memorise and tables to look up; lots (lots) of little options to plug in; much greater emphasis on pregame listbuilding/strategy than ingame tactics; multiple rolls for a single attack (hit, toughness, save) to maintain the image of player control, etc. etc. And all this level of detail maintained regardless of game size.
Couple that with the fact that, yeah, I think the background has changed too. In tone, anyway, before my time. It used to be tongue-in-cheek and irreverent, which I imagine appealed to the older gamers. Almost like parental bonusses, in a way. That changed over time, so that the game took itself more seriously, maybe too seriously with all the grimdarkness, that seems so grown-up to adolescent boys. I know it worked on me, back in 3rd ed. Trouble is the adolescents grow up, most of the time, and the novelty begins to wear off. As GW continues down the opposite route, with grimdark hand in hand with whizz-bang spectacle and superheroics, it helps make 40K look more and more ridiculous, like a '90's Image comic. Flying Viking bathtub, anyone?

This kind if notion is debateable, and I've seen posters that I normally agree with debate it, but I think it holds water. Enough so that age can't be said to be irrelevant.

Especially when, lastly, gamers get older, I'd guess the cost of a pint of milk becomes more relevant too.

OP I changed.

I used to be all GW and a smattering of other game systems.

Now its just other game systems. My hobby is still fun.

Your hobby can still be fun, maybe try something else and come back to GW later - if you still want to.

“Men do not quit playing because they grow old; they grow old because they quit playing.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr.

Nobody's stopped playing, not yet. But there's a difference between getting excited over snakes and ladders ("Now with highly detailed ++2 FineladdersTM! Only £30 each!") and settling down for a nice session of Carcassone or Ticket To Ride.

 PrehistoricUFO wrote:
Age is irrelevant.

Sounds to me like you never really had a genuine interest in the hobby anyway.

Anecdotes are not fact, sorry OP.

i think you're confused. this isn't bodybuilding.com.

Then why do I feel the burn and look so buff?

 notprop wrote:
Then why do I feel the burn and look so buff?

That's just curry and beer goggles.

winterwind85 wrote:most of the topics i fly over while reading the forum are about
- my sisters of battle will never get an update, my cc units suck, gw is to expensive, gw will go down etc etc etc...

People attempt to glean validation for themselves by copying other things which are themselves valid. It's nothing new, nor unique to this community.

winterwind85 wrote:i tried to find a reason for myself why many eople including myself are often so frsutrated about the hobby. im now 29 years old, i had the first experience with 40 k when i was 14.

You changed, and 40k didn't. Of course you grow apart.

You either find new reasons to like old things or you don't, and move on to something else. One of the reasons I'm still around in the 40k world is because what I've wanted from the game has changed as I have. If I hadn't, I wouldn't be bothering.

Being old isn't so bad, I could be dead, which is the alternative.

 winterwind85 wrote:

 PrehistoricUFO wrote:
Age is irrelevant.

Sounds to me like you never really had a genuine interest in the hobby anyway.

and you know this because...?

To be fair, it sounded on first read like you never actually played the game and only dabbled in collecting a few models now and then at different times in your life. I had to re-read it to see that you did at least have several armies and were ever serious about collecting/painting and I assume playing too.

i never grew up...
i surf all day, paint all night, don't have a boss, and live like i'm still a teenager (one with more experience and knowledge)...
the magic is still as fresh to me know as it was 30 years ago when i walked into the Historical Models store and saw my first blister pack of original Chaos Dwarfs (way before they started wearing big hats)...

as a painter, i don't have to bother with "keeping up with the Jonses" when it comes to rules and armies...
i can do what i please, without feeling any pressure on my wallet...
i still wake up every morning excited to read a new bit of fluff, check out some old art, and push my painting to be better than it was the night before...

i have been a Space Marine nut since the first Rogue Trader sculpts...
i feel that right now is the best time to be a Marine fan...
the sculpts are better than they have ever been, with amazing detail and options...
have been along for the entire evolution of the models, it feels like there is always something fresh and new just around the corner...
i love it!!!

sorry you had to grow up, OP...

cheers
jah

Yeah, I rarely get that buzz of excitement upon seeing a new GW release anymore.

The last time it happened was for the big re-do of Necrons, but even then my excitement died away after a month or so.

I think the main reasons are...

Age - I don't tend to excited about the things I used to get excited about in my teens and 20s e.g. cool movies, video games etc

Time - With two children in constant need of entertainment, the amount of quality time when I am also not too knackered to do any modelling/painting is very thin on the ground

The Game - 40K and Fantasy are now both focused around shifting large plastic kits at a high mark up, but the core game wasn't designed for big models. Tacked on rules doesn't change this

Fellow Players - My friends got old too and for much the same reasons as the above, lost interest in games as well.

And yet... I have massively enjoyed playing X-Wing this year (and got very carried away with ship purchases). I believe there's still a gamer in there somewhere

I think also it depends on what you want from the Hobby, for me it was more about collecting and the fluff and less about the game, so changes to the game system never affected me much because i never tried to have competitive list, i go more for the "that's cool" stuff

And WTF! you are only 29! I'm 43! i should be the grumpy old bastard!

It is all about what you get from a game/hobby. Last night a friend and I got together to play 40k. We have been playing a lot more of another game as we are more into the tactics and gameplay than the hobby, but every once in awhile we like to toss the army men down and throw buckets of dice to see what happens. Turn two we looked at each other, both agreed we were bored, and pretty much started pricing out our models, and deciding to play (GASP!) what we enjoy.

This is NOT a 40k bash, btw, but the truth is there are a few different groups of people, usually broken down into the hobbiests vs the "gamers." Some people play these games for competition, others just for a fair and balanced game... others like fluff, or the art style, or any number of other factors.

It isn't about "growing up," as I am older than you (own a house, have a family, and do all those "grown up" things) and play with people that have over 20 years on ME, even.

It *IS* about finding a game or hobby that meets YOUR needs. I am a fervent Warmachine player, but I don't fault people who enjoy 40k. We get different things from our games.

You just need to know yourself, and spend your time accordingly.

I just went to the public library and borrowed CHECKED OUT multiple Love Hina paperbacks.

(edited for completely forgetting words)

I just hit 31, and started playing 40k when I was 11 (yes, I was a little Timmy). I've had breaks from gaming, the longest lasted a couple of years. All that's happened as I've aged is I've gotten wiser to GW's business practices (as I've personally experienced similar practices in the workplace), and have been introduced to the hobby outside of GW.

Getting old doesn't mean you have to drop a hobby. If you still enjoy it, then keep doing said hobby. if you don't enjoy it any more, discard it. that's the great thing about hobbies, they're simply things you do in your leisure time. If they're no longer leisurely, there's no point continuing with them.

 winterwind85 wrote:

 PrehistoricUFO wrote:
Age is irrelevant.

Sounds to me like you never really had a genuine interest in the hobby anyway.

and you know this because...?

You're the one projecting your experiences onto others.

The people I see in the game store on Wednesday nights range in age from teenager to retired. The podcasters I listen to have families, careers, and still go down to the game store on game night to play.

Let him be disillusioned about 40K. He's not the only one of us here. Won't be the last, either. There are some here whose turns are coming.

Well I know I changed but also so did everyone else including the newer generation. A lot has to do with less work and instant fun. GW is based on a long term process of building, painting and strategy to use what you built to play. I have to agree Star wars or X wing with instantly ready mini's is equivalent to when I played clicks MechWarrior. But we also live in a different time back when I was younger we had no Facebook, cell phones(smart phones), and if you call AOL internet (56k) then we had internet. Nothing like we have today with video games being multi-player online rather than LAN ( when we actually had to all be in the same building). Now i have to agree my personal Things to also changed. Now I'm a father with a young daughter that hates sitting in a store all day long while I play 40k ( granted the store owner brings his daughter on game nights most of the time now and my daughter wants to go). And now instead of traveling all the time to events I Travel to Rabbit shows with my daughter. Which won a national title this year for the Flemish National Show in NC (hell ya) with us being from Texas that was a long drive. So now I traded my hobby for our hobby. With that said I still have standing orders for the newest 40k Novels and Codex's so I can read on these long trips when not driving. Mainly at first I took them to read while she showed at events but it never actually happened most of the time I am just an involved as her with answering questions and taking orders on future available rabbits.

Not saying this generation is wrong in any ways but it is different. Everything is faster and they want it now not in 6 months. Which is just different to me everything was about waiting when I was a teenager because things were slower. But now things are faster there for everything done needs to be in that format or it is boring or taking to long. Biggest things to prove this is the rise in Fast food and the decline in Sitting down and eat along waiting on food cooked to your order taking a while. I admit I like some of the changes but others I do not. But this is really no different then my fathers generation vs my own.

 Eilif wrote:

 notprop wrote:
Then why do I feel the burn and look so buff?

That's just curry and beer goggles.

Touché!



Am I being watched?

I don't really get excited about gaming related stuff anymore. Certainly not like I did when I was 11-12 years old. However, I am excited about an upcoming project of mine, getting 1000pts of Squats for my 2nd edition fetish.
But i'm not psyched about playing a game with them, I'm much more excited about sitting around, filing, glueing, prepping and painting them. Mostly because it gives me a few hours 'me time', but partly because it's been a long time since I've actually put brush to mini.

But then, I'm 34 and I've started getting excited about buying towels and choosing colours for our kitchen….

I was never a GW only or GW "gateway" kid.

I came into the hobby via traditional historicals and specifically WW2 minis back in the mid-80s.

I found GW AFTER Battletech by FASA and a few other games. GW did go on to find me my "other games", though.

In time, other games would swap in and out for the "main" and "other" games (It was Battletech and 40k for a while, then WHFB and Battletech, then Warzone and Necromunda, or Necro and Kryomek or Void, or something else.)

Currently I play WHFB badly and also play Infinity badly. If another game comes along that strikes my fancy, I'll drop WHFB like a red-headed baby without a second thought.

It would have to be a DAMN good one for me to drop infinity for it, though.