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Which list do you think will perform better?
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List 2

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Made in us
Sneaky Lictor





Hey guys, it's been a while since my last post, but I've still been reading! I'm looking for some feedback on my list I've designed for an upcoming tournament. Tournament uses Frontline's tournament circuit rule set so I think most can imagine how that works.


List 1
Primary CAD
Dakkaflyrant - Hive commander, E. Grubs
Dakkaflyrant - E. Grubs
Malanthrope
30 Gants
Tervigon
Mawlock
Mawlock
Tyrannofex - Adrenal Glands
Secondary CAD
Dakkaflyrant - E. Grubs
3 deep striking rippers
Tyrannofex - Adrenal Glands
Total = 1845

I know the Tervigon has fallen out of favor as a troops choice because my troop section constitutes 325 points of my list. The tournament has ruled that spawned gants DON'T receive OS benefits, so there's that too.

I had difficulty deciding between the above troop selection versus using 3-4 deep striking ripper swarm units which would cost me 135 or 180 respectively. So as an alternative, check out the list below:

List 2
Primary CAD
Dakkaflyrant - E. Grubs
Dakkaflyrant - E. Grubs
Malanthrope
3 Deep striking rippers
3 Deep striking rippers
3 Deep striking rippers
3 Deep striking rippers
23 Gargoyles
Mawlock
Mawlock
Tyrannofex - Adrenal Glands, E. Grubs
Secondary CAD
Dakkaflyrant - E. Grubs
Venomthrope
3 deep striking rippers
Tyrannofex - Adrenal Glands, E. Grubs
Total = 1848

Notable differences:
All MC's have E. Grubs to handle knights, Additional shrouded bubble, no need for reserve manipulation so dropped Hive commander, and my main scoring element is in the rippers. Likewise, my bubble wrap hasn't necessarily been compromised. 7 MC's in List 2, and 8 in List 1.

Any thoughts on this guys?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/21 18:30:56


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






List 2 man. Lots of scoring that can pop up anywhere. Hopefully your fex can attract bullets, otherwise Id consider throwing it for more Gargoyles.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut



Cheyenne WY

I voted list two, I don't Hate Tervigon, but I stopped using her even before the spawned are not OS baloney came along. I think you'll get a better experience with the second list in any case.

The will of the hive is always the same: HUNGER 
   
Made in nl
Deadshot Weapon Moderati






I voted list 1, but only if you use the hive commander to outflank the tervigon
   
Made in us
Sneaky Lictor





I feel like Hive commander should only be used to outflank the Tervigon when necessary (i.e. to reduce alpha strike effectiveness, or if objectives are close to edges). I don't think it should always be done.

Anyone else?
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





UK

I think you'll be better off with list two.

I don't like Hive Commander with the choices Nids have.

30 Outflanking Devilgants is perhaps the only viable option, but even then it's still quite expensive.

Double T-Fex looks cool though, I would however put the Adrenal Glands on the Mawloc since they want to be in combat more than the T-Fex.

YMDC = nightmare 
   
Made in us
Sneaky Lictor





Thanks for the input. After further analysis, I notice that list 2 is ~45 points over...somehow I forgot to calculate the Venomthrope into the total.

That, I think changes it significantly....however, I can accommodate: List 2 amendment.

List 2
Primary CAD
Dakkaflyrant - E. Grubs
Dakkaflyrant - E. Grubs
Malanthrope
3 Deep striking rippers
3 Deep striking rippers
3 Deep striking rippers
3 Deep striking rippers
15 Gargoyles
Mawlock
Mawlock
Tyrannofex - Adrenal Glands, E. Grubs
Secondary CAD
Dakkaflyrant - E. Grubs
Venomthrope
3 deep striking rippers
Tyrannofex - Adrenal Glands, E. Grubs
Total = 1845

On the other hand, with the opportunity to get MoA, I would like to incorporate a unit of 2 Dakkafexen. Which would look like the following:

List 2 Modified
Primary CAD
Dakkaflyrant - E. Grubs
Dakkaflyrant - E. Grubs
Venomthrope
3 Deep striking rippers
3 Deep striking rippers
3 Deep striking rippers
20 Gargoyles
Mawlock
Mawlock
2 Dakkafexen
Secondary CAD
Dakkaflyrant - E. Grubs
Venomthrope
3 deep striking rippers
Tyrannofex - Adrenal Glands, E. Grubs
Total = 1845

What do you guys think about the most recent iteration?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/10/21 18:34:27


 
   
Made in ca
Rampaging Carnifex




West Coast, Canada

I like the first list, with 2 Tyrannofexes, but am also a fan of dakkafexes. If it were me, I'd likely go with the first one, though.

   
Made in us
Sneaky Lictor





A guy in my gaming group agrees with you. I value his opinion because he loves the list tinkering aspect of 40K.

His reasoning is that having 2 T-fexen messes up target priority and also provides a huge staying power to the list.

The reason I like the addition of the Dakkafexen is because of the chance of getting MoA on the Warlord table. Being that I'm BF still, I have something like a ~40% chance of getting it.

To look at it from a purely mathematical standpoint, comparing 2 Dakkafexen to a T-fex is like comparing apples to broccoli. I would really like to know if anyone has done the math on the comparison of Dakkafexen to T-fexen.

With that in mind, I think I'm gonna message the guy I think who would be good at that and get back to the thread.
   
Made in us
Sneaky Lictor





Follow up to my previous post:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/5760/572843.page#7301163

See this post, Tag helped me out with the math.

With the math in mind, I'd like to discuss the Dakkafexen vs T-fex....

Yes, they are different points investment. And yes they fulfill different roles.

I am a huge fan of the dual T-fex because they offer redundancy, speed (with AG), and the only 2+ save available to Tyranids. They are just about the only ignores cover weapon (that's good) in the codex and they can double as tarpits.

The Dakkafexen can double as AA (but lets be honest, what Tyranid player isn't taking 2 Flyrants for that), so I think their dual role is more light armor + anti infantry and Knight duty....if they can catch one....

Lastly, the durability increase for the T-fex is minimal. The only reason it creeps to ~2 times the durability of a C-fex is because of AP3 weaponry......which to my knowledge there's next to nothing in the game barring the Baleflamer. What isn't accounted for, regarding the durability of C-fex broods is, the ability cycle your fex to increase their longevity. But lets be honest about that strategy.....these days it isn't going to be very difficult for your opponent to kill off a single 4W 3+ sv model....

Which leads me to points investment. While 2 T-fex clock in at 400 points, to fill those same HS slots with Dakkafexen (1x2 and 1x1 format) its gonna run you 430 points. I would much prefer to take 2x2, for damage output, but the points simply aren't there....

So to bring it back around...I like the idea of 2 T-fex barring down on the enemy, but with fun modifications to deployment (such as MoA), T-fex will not benefit as greatly as Dakkafexen will.

Any thoughts on what I should do?
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut



Cheyenne WY

roxor08 wrote:
Follow up to my previous post:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/5760/572843.page#7301163

See this post, Tag helped me out with the math.

With the math in mind, I'd like to discuss the Dakkafexen vs T-fex....

Yes, they are different points investment. And yes they fulfill different roles.

I am a huge fan of the dual T-fex because they offer redundancy, speed (with AG), and the only 2+ save available to Tyranids. They are just about the only ignores cover weapon (that's good) in the codex and they can double as tarpits.

The Dakkafexen can double as AA (but lets be honest, what Tyranid player isn't taking 2 Flyrants for that), so I think their dual role is more light armor + anti infantry and Knight duty....if they can catch one....

Lastly, the durability increase for the T-fex is minimal. The only reason it creeps to ~2 times the durability of a C-fex is because of AP3 weaponry......which to my knowledge there's next to nothing in the game barring the Baleflamer. What isn't accounted for, regarding the durability of C-fex broods is, the ability cycle your fex to increase their longevity. But lets be honest about that strategy.....these days it isn't going to be very difficult for your opponent to kill off a single 4W 3+ sv model....

Which leads me to points investment. While 2 T-fex clock in at 400 points, to fill those same HS slots with Dakkafexen (1x2 and 1x1 format) its gonna run you 430 points. I would much prefer to take 2x2, for damage output, but the points simply aren't there....

So to bring it back around...I like the idea of 2 T-fex barring down on the enemy, but with fun modifications to deployment (such as MoA), T-fex will not benefit as greatly as Dakkafexen will.

Any thoughts on what I should do?


Well...you know me, I like Tyranofexen. (and I will not lie! ) The nice part is both choices are very good. How often do Nids players get to choose between two exelent choices?

The will of the hive is always the same: HUNGER 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




One question. Why the second venomthrope? The single malanthrope should fulfill your needs for saves. Also do you feel you have enough synapse? The. Flyrants provide some, but do you feel that would be enough?
   
Made in au
Raging Ravener






I'd go with the dakkafexen and pop the adrenal glands on them instead of the t-fex...makes for more reliable charges and D3 S10 hammer of wrath is so fun (not that S9 something to sneeze at).
   
Made in us
Sneaky Lictor





Thanks for the replies everyone.

pinecone77 wrote:
Spoiler:
roxor08 wrote:
Follow up to my previous post:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/5760/572843.page#7301163

See this post, Tag helped me out with the math.

With the math in mind, I'd like to discuss the Dakkafexen vs T-fex....

Yes, they are different points investment. And yes they fulfill different roles.

I am a huge fan of the dual T-fex because they offer redundancy, speed (with AG), and the only 2+ save available to Tyranids. They are just about the only ignores cover weapon (that's good) in the codex and they can double as tarpits.

The Dakkafexen can double as AA (but lets be honest, what Tyranid player isn't taking 2 Flyrants for that), so I think their dual role is more light armor + anti infantry and Knight duty....if they can catch one....

Lastly, the durability increase for the T-fex is minimal. The only reason it creeps to ~2 times the durability of a C-fex is because of AP3 weaponry......which to my knowledge there's next to nothing in the game barring the Baleflamer. What isn't accounted for, regarding the durability of C-fex broods is, the ability cycle your fex to increase their longevity. But lets be honest about that strategy.....these days it isn't going to be very difficult for your opponent to kill off a single 4W 3+ sv model....

Which leads me to points investment. While 2 T-fex clock in at 400 points, to fill those same HS slots with Dakkafexen (1x2 and 1x1 format) its gonna run you 430 points. I would much prefer to take 2x2, for damage output, but the points simply aren't there....

So to bring it back around...I like the idea of 2 T-fex barring down on the enemy, but with fun modifications to deployment (such as MoA), T-fex will not benefit as greatly as Dakkafexen will.

Any thoughts on what I should do?


Well...you know me, I like Tyranofexen. (and I will not lie! ) The nice part is both choices are very good. How often do Nids players get to choose between two exelent choices?


Hah! It's not very often! While I agree that I like Tyrannofexen a lot, they definitely leave something to be desired in the damage output department....On the flip side, Dakkafexen, while they fulfill that damage output component, their survivability leaves more to be desired...


Millstone wrote:One question. Why the second venomthrope? The single malanthrope should fulfill your needs for saves. Also do you feel you have enough synapse? The. Flyrants provide some, but do you feel that would be enough?


The reason I decided to go with 2 Venomthropes is to have the second shrouded bubble. I won't have to cluster all around a single 6" shrouded bubble. Additionally, I am of the belief that if my opponent decides to target the (singular) Venomthrope/Malanthrope its much more achievable and so they will commit the relevant resources to do so, regardless of it's a T5 4W 3+ or a T4 2W 5+ model. However, when there's 2 of them present, they have to prioritize which one will be more important and their plan is contingent on them eliminating that model.

Don't get me wrong, I would (almost) rather just take 1 Malanthrope than 2 Venomthropes. I even have the room to do it in both iterations of my list. From my recollection, my meta has lots of Bike armies with those stupid Chapter masters w/ Orbital Bombardment. In those instances, 2 Venomthropes will be lightyears better than 1 Malanthrope. Especially when that OB is ignores cover, S10 AP1.

I'm open to suggestions, but from what I'm reading many people have gone from a single Venomthrope (in 6th edition) to either 1 Malanthrope and 1 Venomthrope or 2 Venomthropes.

mekugi wrote:I'd go with the dakkafexen and pop the adrenal glands on them instead of the t-fex...makes for more reliable charges and D3 S10 hammer of wrath is so fun (not that S9 something to sneeze at).


AFAIK, Adrenal glands don't effect HOW attacks....they still get resolved at base strength.

I don't think I have the points to go with Dakkafexen with adrenal glands without sacrificing elsewhere in my list. A 2x1 unit of Dakkafexen with AG ends up at 330 points and they'll likely only get to use the AG once, maybe twice in a game. Turn 1 likely, in order to get into range T2; and possibly Turn 3 when/if they charge. I fully suspect, though, that my Dakkafexen will be unlikely to live past turn 4...if they make it that far.

I far prefer AG to be on the T-fex because they should be running Turn 1 in order to put pressure on Turn 2. Like the Dakkafexen, they should be/will be charging turn 2 or turn 3 at the latest, but a T-fex that doesn't make it to combat (when it should) is as good as dead. However, because of the 2+, tanking pesky Krak grenades, and winning combat because of it or winning a multiple combat situation will allow the T-fex to use its AG again. Additionally, because I have Egrubs on the T-fex, they need to be able to catch Knights. Having 5 haywire firepower on the field, all with a 11" (or greater range) will give Knights pause. The dakkafexen, while the S9 HOW attacks will potentially be effective, rarely have I seen them do major damage.

Where the dakkafexen shine is their ability to fill multiple roles. The main reason I really want to take them is for that "alpha" strike using Master of Ambush. I feel that Dakkafexen will benefit far greater from that than the T-fex...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/24 15:46:44


 
   
 
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