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2014/10/22 20:27:32
Subject: Dragon Tides Kickstarter - Funded at $101,999
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Dakka Veteran
London
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Now funded, with 21 henchmen for the Jade Dragon Tier!
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/682539325/return-of-the-dragon
Didn't see an existing thread for this, so:
- It's an officially-licensed miniatures boardgame from the Bruce & Brandon Lee estate, by AJG games. The Fairytale Games people, for better or worse - they've at least started manufacturing product for prior projects, if not delivered on it yet.
- It pitches itself as a martial arts movie in tabletop form - 1-5 players fight through hordes of mooks (AI or player-controlled) on typical martial arts film terrain, before squaring off against name bosses and sub-bosses. The gameplay looks quite interesting from the videos I've seen.
- What renders they've got look to be of a high standard, and will be manufactured in the same boardgame-PVC as their Fairytale Games line, which looks decently sharp.
- I don't know of many comparable martial arts miniatures on the market, particularly from the 70s-90s period that these movies are drawing from.
- They are leaning heavily on crossover models from other Kickstarters (Super Dungeon Explore, Journey: Wrath of Demons, Sentinels of the Multiverse, as well as not-versions of notable martial arts stars.
- They strongly emphasise that the terms of the contract are that this project is funded and managed entirely separately from any of their other projects, and must absolutely be delivered on schedule. We may disagree, certainly...
Tiers are $45 for the base game:
$100 for the base game & some extras including an expansion, 21 henchmen and stretch goals:
And here are some of the characters being stretched for, as well as alternate art and henchmen sculpts:
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This message was edited 8 times. Last update was at 2014/11/13 10:14:01
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2014/10/22 20:29:09
Subject: Dragon Tides Kickstarter - Officially Licensed Bruce & Brandon Lee Miniatures Game
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Sniping Reverend Moira
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I've looked at this about 8 times, and every time I'm coming close to backing I remind myself that these guys are the ones doing the Fairy Tale Miniatures which have still yet to be delivered.
I just sorta wanna see some of their product first before I give them $$
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2014/10/22 20:33:21
Subject: Dragon Tides Kickstarter - Officially Licensed Bruce & Brandon Lee Miniatures Game
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Dakka Veteran
London
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Just so - they may have physical product, but that's not the same as product in people's hands! And while I trust Greenbrier Games (Zpocalypse) for delivering on miniatures production, any new projects are now going to be rather far back in the queue.
Which is why this being licenced at least distinguishes it - they can't force it to slip simply to allow their other projects more breathing room! I'm probably being a bit too optimistic, but I'd like to see this one fund comfortably.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/22 20:33:44
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2014/10/22 20:46:09
Subject: Re:Dragon Tides Kickstarter - Officially Licensed Bruce & Brandon Lee Miniatures Game
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Experienced Saurus Scar-Veteran
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I've been tempted, and even backed this the first time around.
I was a Fairy Tale kickstarter too, and like others have said, I'm a bit hesitant to throw money at a company that I'm still waiting to see the results from their previous campaigns. In my own hands preferably.
Which sucks, because I've been a rabid kung fu movie fan for decades and can see where just about every single character is coming from.
I also worry about movie studios clamping down on things like the "Kill Will" parody, as we saw Zombicide had to change things up a bit for their Tarantino homages.
I might try to get some of those figures at least.
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2014/10/22 22:12:11
Subject: Re:Dragon Tides Kickstarter - Officially Licensed Bruce & Brandon Lee Miniatures Game
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Houston, TX
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Definitely needs a Jack Burton and Black Dynamite!
Those bases are actually a really cool idea - with a slot to track condition markers on the figure. They should consider releasing those separately!
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2014/10/22 23:03:57
Subject: Re:Dragon Tides Kickstarter - Officially Licensed Bruce & Brandon Lee Miniatures Game
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Hnnng! I want that not-Crow miniature, but that is about it. I can't justify backing a game just for one mini.
If there is anyone backing that isn't interested in "The Blackbird" shoot me a PM!
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2014/10/22 23:59:13
Subject: Dragon Tides Kickstarter - Officially Licensed Bruce & Brandon Lee Miniatures Game
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Regular Dakkanaut
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i'm steering clear from this one. KS really needs to deny projects where the creators still have unfulfilled ones.
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2014/10/23 00:00:36
Subject: Dragon Tides Kickstarter - Officially Licensed Bruce & Brandon Lee Miniatures Game
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Dakka Veteran
London
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If this funds, then the miniature will go into production for retail - they're just only going to sell it every October, apparently!
I'm possibly looking forward to the Triad bosses the most, as I've never painted anything like them - rumpled plum suits, slouching stance, partially exposed tattoos, broken noses...
Edit: I think people are okay with creators running multiple KSes before delivery (otherwise CMON wouldn't have a business model), they just want to see evidence that the creator can deliver at all. I think the licence and more realistic funding goals will help here, but I certainly see why the background would be off putting.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/23 00:03:48
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2014/10/23 00:39:28
Subject: Dragon Tides Kickstarter - Officially Licensed Bruce & Brandon Lee Miniatures Game
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Sniping Reverend Moira
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Bioptic wrote:
Edit: I think people are okay with creators running multiple KSes before delivery (otherwise CMON wouldn't have a business model),
Did you mean Mantic?
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2014/10/23 01:26:11
Subject: Dragon Tides Kickstarter - Officially Licensed Bruce & Brandon Lee Miniatures Game
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[DCM]
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cincydooley wrote:I've looked at this about 8 times, and every time I'm coming close to backing I remind myself that these guys are the ones doing the Fairy Tale Miniatures which have still yet to be delivered.
I just sorta wanna see some of their product first before I give them $$
Same here!
Seriously tempted, but the Trust Factor on this one...
...must give this one some thought.
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2014/10/23 09:09:58
Subject: Dragon Tides Kickstarter - Officially Licensed Bruce & Brandon Lee Miniatures Game
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Dakka Veteran
London
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cincydooley wrote:Bioptic wrote:
Edit: I think people are okay with creators running multiple KSes before delivery (otherwise CMON wouldn't have a business model),
Did you mean Mantic?
Hah - them too. Or any small company that is big on new product lines, small on staff and a war chest of cash. Cheap credit from Kickstarter is just too tempting vs. traditional bank loans or re-investing profits. I'm fine with it as long as the money from each project is entirely used for that project alone, and there is some kind of schedule being planned. What I worry about is one Kickstarter going wrong (e.g. massively overpromising the amount of content being delivered, running into legal difficulties) and companies using Kickstarter to play catch-up!
Hopefully the funding for this will reach 2 tipping points - the first at $45 000, where they are comfortably funded and have those henchmen models to make this a fully rounded package, the second at $70 000-$80 000 where there will be enough stuff in the $100 tier to make it unquestionable value.
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2014/10/23 12:20:17
Subject: Dragon Tides Kickstarter - Officially Licensed Bruce & Brandon Lee Miniatures Game
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[DCM]
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How many unfulfilled KS do they have out there right now?
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2014/10/23 12:51:05
Subject: Dragon Tides Kickstarter - Officially Licensed Bruce & Brandon Lee Miniatures Game
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Dakka Veteran
London
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- Martial Arts: The Trading Card Game (funded March 11 2013, ETD September 2013)
- Fairytale Games (funded July 2013, ETD February 2014).
- Fairytale Games extra Miniatures (funded October 22 2013, ETD September 2014).
Which is presumably why they wanted to emphasise that management, funding & scheduling will be entirely independent for this project, under the terms of their contract!
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2014/10/23 13:04:55
Subject: Dragon Tides Kickstarter - Officially Licensed Bruce & Brandon Lee Miniatures Game
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[DCM]
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That's all well and good, but in this case past performance may actually be an indicator of future returns!
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2014/10/23 13:28:19
Subject: Dragon Tides Kickstarter - Officially Licensed Bruce & Brandon Lee Miniatures Game
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Sniping Reverend Moira
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Bioptic wrote:- Martial Arts: The Trading Card Game (funded March 11 2013, ETD September 2013)
- Fairytale Games (funded July 2013, ETD February 2014).
- Fairytale Games extra Miniatures (funded October 22 2013, ETD September 2014).
Which is presumably why they wanted to emphasise that management, funding & scheduling will be entirely independent for this project, under the terms of their contract!
Do you know if any of those are past due, Bioptic?
The game does look interesting, at least. Like I said, I just sorta wanna see some product from them first
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2014/10/23 13:53:44
Subject: Dragon Tides Kickstarter - Officially Licensed Bruce & Brandon Lee Miniatures Game
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Every one of their projects are past due as far as Im aware, thats the reason I won't back this, despite how amazing i think it looks.
3 projects funded, nothing delivered yet does not instill confidence. Im forcing myself to wait for retail on this unfortunately.
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2014/10/23 13:59:44
Subject: Dragon Tides Kickstarter - Officially Licensed Bruce & Brandon Lee Miniatures Game
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Dakka Veteran
London
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Martial Arts is the only one that's gone off the deep end - it had 84 backers, had manufacturing issues, is now finally actually being printed.
Fairytale games was deliberately delayed due to their decision to expand the scope of the project massively to include miniatures and other gubbins, but I think is still running late even so. They're now going to do wave-based shipping for that, and have posted out retail versions of the core set to contest winners, with distribution to backers being in the pipeline but not yet locked down...I think? Not sure, didn't back either project.
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2014/10/23 14:39:22
Subject: Dragon Tides Kickstarter - Officially Licensed Bruce & Brandon Lee Miniatures Game
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Sniping Reverend Moira
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You know one thing I've decided I don't like, and has kept me from backing projects in the past:
Projects that have a "Core Game" level and then a Core Game + Stretch goals level. IMO, your "base" level should be the level that includes stretch goals, and should not be 50% greater cost than the game is actually going to cost at retail. I'm not a huge fan of having to pay for the "privilege" of getting the stretch goals.
Rivet Wars is probably my favorite game, and thats the only KS CMoN did that style with, and I just am not a fan (luckily, I backed it anyways, because I certainly don't regret it)..And that's another problem I have here. You'll take my money for a base game (that you're already probably making 30-50% of the MSRP in profit on) but in order for that privilege, I have to pay double what the game actually costs?
Those just don't sound like "stretch goals" to me; they sound like paid add ons.
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2014/10/23 14:42:18
Subject: Dragon Tides Kickstarter - Officially Licensed Bruce & Brandon Lee Miniatures Game
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[DCM]
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I think that, to date, they haven't really shown the ability to smoothly run a campaign fulfillment.
I think that if you keep that in mind, and realize that this one might not (!) ship on time...
It does look great, and if most of those character stretch goals are reached, it will be even better!
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2014/10/23 15:30:31
Subject: Dragon Tides Kickstarter - Officially Licensed Bruce & Brandon Lee Miniatures Game
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
The Battle Barge Buffet Line
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So it's in big letters from the official estate of Bruce and Brandon Lee but they'll use unofficially every action movie star license from the 70's to the 90's? There is some irony in that. Don't get me wrong... I don't have any issue with it nor did I with Zombicide but I just find it ironic. In any case, I'm not really the target audience for this type of game beyond wanting to get a few minis for RPG purposes (although I have to admit I have no actual use for them as I'm not in any rpg games for years or the forseeable future). I don't know how their 30-35mm scale though interacts with my existing minis.
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We Munch for Macragge! FOR THE EMPRUH! Cheesesticks and Humus! |
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2014/10/23 16:25:53
Subject: Dragon Tides Kickstarter - Officially Licensed Bruce & Brandon Lee Miniatures Game
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Using Object Source Lighting
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Hmm, that's too bad about their rep. This is a seriously tempting game otherwise...
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2014/10/23 20:59:28
Subject: Dragon Tides Kickstarter - Officially Licensed Bruce & Brandon Lee Miniatures Game
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Dakka Veteran
London
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The saga of Fairytale games is a pretty epic one, as summarised in this recent update:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/682539325/fairytale-games-the-miniatures-campaign/posts/1021688
Faith, broken promises, betrayal and death! The tragic part is that they look like they're genuinely past the biggest hurdles now, but I certainly can't blame people for hanging back on this project. I feel that the biggest difference is that they know what things cost now, and how much time things take, and have committed themselves full time to actual production.
The main risk being faced now is just delayed delivery...and it wouldn't be the first Kickstarter that I've backed with that risk!
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2014/10/29 13:08:18
Subject: Dragon Tides Kickstarter - Officially Licensed Bruce & Brandon Lee Miniatures Game - FUNDED!
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Dakka Veteran
London
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...And they're FUNDED, also with the much-need 21 henchmen models at the $100 tier. Value's still not quite there for $100, but they're on the way.
Next goal is foil combo attack cards. Which actually sound quite interesting! Haven't seen many miniatures boardgames where your attack options change if you pair up.
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2014/10/29 13:31:52
Subject: Dragon Tides Kickstarter - Officially Licensed Bruce & Brandon Lee Miniatures Game - FUNDED!
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[DCM]
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Tempted here, but I think it won't become a 'must have' until quite a few of the special characters are unlocked.
Maybe around $80K to $100K?
But, can it get that high?
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2014/10/29 13:42:32
Subject: Dragon Tides Kickstarter - Officially Licensed Bruce & Brandon Lee Miniatures Game - FUNDED!
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Krazed Killa Kan
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Right to publicity problems:
Will need permission to publish: VanDamme, Chan, Norris etc.
Copyright issues:
Kill Will.... Really?
I'm gonna kickstart this new game based 400,000 years into earths future. I'm gonna call it Warslammer 400k.
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2014/10/29 14:40:29
Subject: Dragon Tides Kickstarter - Officially Licensed Bruce & Brandon Lee Miniatures Game - FUNDED!
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[DCM]
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Have they addressed the potential issues with certain likenesses yet?
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2014/10/29 19:44:59
Subject: Dragon Tides Kickstarter - Officially Licensed Bruce & Brandon Lee Miniatures Game - FUNDED!
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Alguacile Paramedic
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I'm going to get this when it hits retail! It looks great.
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2014/10/29 20:43:23
Subject: Re:Dragon Tides Kickstarter - Officially Licensed Bruce & Brandon Lee Miniatures Game - FUNDED!
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Dakka Veteran
London
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Big Trouble in Little Tokyo and Kill Will vol.2 would be something we could only create through funding via Kickstarter since we are making sure to adhere to acceptable copyright rules. The Phoenix Lim storyline might be available outside of this kickstarter and in retail, but to be honest, it would be more of a reality and production priority if we could get it funded here.
It sounds like they think they've addressed it, anyway!
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/29 20:44:11
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2014/10/29 20:49:30
Subject: Dragon Tides Kickstarter - Officially Licensed Bruce & Brandon Lee Miniatures Game - FUNDED!
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[DCM]
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IF it hits retail!
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2014/10/30 07:11:10
Subject: Dragon Tides Kickstarter - Officially Licensed Bruce & Brandon Lee Miniatures Game - FUNDED!
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Krazed Killa Kan
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Regardless. This (VanDamme, Norris etc) violates California (and New York) statute. Using a celebrity's name or image to sell or advertise a product. Plus, it looks like they'd violate copyright as well as that Chan pic looks like a movie poster cut and paste job.
Hmmm:
http://www.fightingmaster.com/actors/jackie/
I don't mean to hate on you guys, but save yourself a gak ton of legal trouble... Don't use those images. Take pictures of your buff buddies and process them. This is dangerous territory. You will not have a legal leg to stand on.
To the rest of you...
Caveat Emptor....
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/10/30 07:32:23
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