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We all know there is a lot of regurgitation of "facts" about bad or good units that a lot of people haven't actually put much thought behind before stating it as an undeniable truth. So, name your 3 most underrated or overrated units, that you think the popular opinion of the mass might be off the mark with, with an explanation.

For me:





#1: CSM Obliterators. Sure, they are versatile, but they are so pricey that no matter what you have them doing, they are wasted points. Especially since they are generally taken in 3x3 squads as the AT coverage in the heavy slot.... LasCannon Havocs are just a much better choice, they will be worth the points almost every game and on the ones they aren't, against an army with a crazy amount of infantry, well they can still fire at infantry and still only be wasting a similar amount of effeciency as Oblits will cost you every game.

#2: Dark Eldar Trueborn. These were a necessary choice in 5th ED 40k ruleset, before Wyches were introduced. You will see a lot of tactica written in the 5th edition about how important they are, and it's accurate back then, but in 6th ed 40k, they were AT that would rarely be able to make it to its targets due to being the first 3 Venoms to die out of 9, every single game, they became more of a liability. Well, aside from the power creep making the thin Venoms even thinner, this was mostly still the case in 5th, but with no other option it was a necessary sacrifice to redirect shots from Ravagers or vice versa, allowing at least some shooting to get past, if ineffeciently. 6th changed this with Wyches getting an excellent buff in Haywire Grenades, being spread over 6 different Venoms meaning you have to kill all 6 Venoms to kill the AT, for the same price (actually slightly cheaper).This is why most of the better lists I saw moved away from 9venoms+3Ravagers into 6Venoms+Beasts+Ravagers as it's core, but it didn't stop people from regurgitating the crap that Blasterborn are a must have and one of the best units in the dex, when they are really only ever a good choice to make up points between 1600-1850 and still quite optional. In the new dex I wouldn't even touch them.

#3: Tyranid Warriors. More popular in the new codex, but still the underlying concept that they are completely nerfed by S8 weaponry, when point for point they are just as durable against S8 weaponry and light arms as a Carnifex (more so if you include the TL-Devs to the cost of the Fex which I wasn't doing). They are very solid units all round, who might not be as spammable as said Dakkafex who has a defined aggressive role, but work great as a Synapse peg especially considering they can be subbed in in place of your default crappy mandatory troop options, saving you another 40 points off their cost. While less relevant in 5th ed thanks to Tervigons and Zoanthropes having excellent merits of their own on top of Synapse, they were definitely never as bad as people made them out to be, and now in 6th-7th are a lot more desirable.


Honorable mention goes to Plague Marines, who for the most part are worse and far less effecient than taking MoN CSM as your troops. The fact that these combined with Oblits were so popular for CSM players helps me understand why a lot of them had so little luck with their dex, yes it's not an amazing book but start out with a bunch of those 2 units and you are really giving yourself a much smaller overall army strength with the points that you've wasted.






Share with me some of your own overlooked or overrated units, or feel free to argue against my own! Really interested to see some other well supported And to the poster who sees every thread as new opportunity to state that every single unpopular unit is just being played wrong, and all the most popular units are overrated and just the easiest ones, please that is not the purpose of this thread, just share your top 3.

1. Wytches - Underrated. Everyone thinks they're bad without having actually tried them out. And those who take a risk suddenly realize that PfP makes them quite worthy mellee fighters.
2. Stormboyz - Underrated. Haven't seen anyone but me using the guyz. 24-27 average charge range on the WAAAAGH! is not something to sniff at.
3. CSM troops - Underrated. 20 i5 guyz with 3+ and fnp + infiltrate with Huron and probably stuff like shrowded from a lucky gift or Cypher are wrecking face unless they meet 2+ rerollable. And luckily, there's not much 2+ rerollable left. And they're worthwhile in a landraider with a choppy indep.

How do infiltrate them with huron, he doesn't have infiltrate so can't deploy with them?

+2 cover isn't much when there is so much stuff that ignores cover.

1. Wolf Priest: an underrated HQ, put one in a claw unit (blood, sky or swift) and look how they squiz to the maximun PE and feel no pain, even the WP from the 5th was a solid support HQ, and now with the relics ans new rules, he is a great character to use in challenge
2. Wolf guard termies: a lot of people talk about them liek they were the plague, but i find them a solid elite choice, with lots of options from where to choose, you can make them a solid all corners unit, a couple of combi weapons and some ss make the work
3. mmm i cant think in another one

Makumba wrote:
How do infiltrate them with huron, he doesn't have infiltrate so can't deploy with them?

+2 cover isn't much when there is so much stuff that ignores cover.

Huron's Warlord Trait gives d3 infantry units (which can include himself) Infiltrate.

1. Standard Battle Sisters. Sure, Dominions and Retributors are better against their targets, but regular BSS are murder on stylishly armoured flats against anything that relies on a high armour save to protect it. You just can't say no to forty preferred enemy bolter shots.
2. Necron Deepstriking. Sure, its not super-duper accurate, or immune to mishaps, but when you have three, powerful units that can deep strike around the board as much as they like, Necron Mobility is not a shill without Night Scythes.
3. Vendettas. Even under the old rules, I just don't see why they're supposedly so broken. Squadronning means their offensive abilities are crippled by a serious inability to properly choose their targets, and with how much they have to move, its too easy to get at the rear armour with your stationary AA guns!

Huron's Warlord Trait gives d3 infantry units (which can include himself) Infiltrate.

But you would have to roll 3+right , if you roll1-2 you can't and the unit kind of a doesn't work? My boyfriend run huron in 6th ed with terminators sometimes, but he stoped as they don't work anymore.

Wow, I didn't know other people liked Tyranid Warriors. I've heard the internet thinks they're terrible. Yet, I always use them, and they never die.

I'm not sure if I understand what Makumba is saying.

Makumba wrote:

Huron's Warlord Trait gives d3 infantry units (which can include himself) Infiltrate.

But you would have to roll 3+right , if you roll1-2 you can't and the unit kind of a doesn't work? My boyfriend run huron in 6th ed with terminators sometimes, but he stoped as they don't work anymore.

Who told you need Huron to be in the squad? If you roll 2 or more and don't want to infiltrate other stuff, you could give it to Huron too and join the infiltrated squad.

If you roll a 1 - just 1 unit infiltrates, Huron goes elsewhere.
If you roll a 2 - up to 2 units can infiltrate or you give infiltrate to 1 unit and Huron,so they can be joined.
...

 krodarklorr wrote:
Wow, I didn't know other people liked Tyranid Warriors. I've heard the internet thinks they're terrible. Yet, I always use them, and they never die.

The internet is a very small sample and often is just an appreciation of units at face value, i.e. they are ID'd by S8 and thats fairly common, they must be complete trash. Then looking at little deeper, in reality it is still just as durable as most the MC's you would otherwise spend the points on, and fulfills a necessary role of its own, and is better in hand to hand most the time as well

Disagree with las-havocs beating out Oblits. If the enemy is low on armour or is a horde las-havocs are a huge waste of points, whereas the Oblits can DS and lay out some pain with heavy flamers, or twin-linked flamers. Deploy havocs poorly and they'll spend half the game getting LOS, again, Oblits can DS to where you need the firepower, then apply whatever type of firepower is required.

For me I find the Defiler hugely underrated. The internet says it's a snap to kill it but with 5++ 4HP and IWND that's simply false. It's also a threat in multiple phases of the game and can tangle with a variety of enemy models, MC, blobs, heavy armour. etc.

Then they are just an overpriced termicide squad, still leaving you with a deficit of points no matter what the situation. Versatility is great, but only when you don't pay an extra 50% on the model for it. Build a balanced list. What good lists don't have anything that trades badly with LasCannons? Even if Havocs aren't to your liking no matter what the match up, Oblits have cost you points.

Too many to list, and one of the only downsides of the internet community is that so often, the 'accepted wisdom' leads to people being told that units are worthless when they are in fact useful even if not optimal. But to pick just 3, I'll stick to the Imperial Guard.

3) Stormtroopers: The prevailing theory is that they are best used, if at all, as suicide melta delivery units, but especially now they can be taken in platoons and are cheaper, bringing them en masse to open a second front is actually very effective; it requires investment, but can be well worth it to bring three+ full squads.

2) Hellhounds: Prior to the new Guard codex, anyone who asked about Hellhounds would be told to take Vendettas instead, and any discussion was quickly shut down because of that. However, and even more so now Vendettas took a hit, they have a lot to offer especially to a mech list, with both the Torrent flamer and the AV12 side armour. The Flamer brings some nice crowd control, and the boosted side armour means putting them on the end of a tank wall can up the overall durability of the squishier chimera within.

1) Ogryn: Often dismissed as overpriced, but Ogryn make excellent shock troops or counter assault units. They are single minded in their intent, but that means it's easy to focus their one task of being a CQB assault unit, and not hard to make the most of the short range carnage they can unleash.

Makumba wrote:


+2 cover isn't much when there is so much stuff that ignores cover.

Not much stuff ignores both cover and 3+ armor.

See, that's the exact thing you're doing now - underrating csm

I don't agree to the comment on Oblits, they are not a good general AT choice, but a great Swiss army knife. You will have a hard time finding a unit that when it comes from reserve has this much potential to fix your current problems. Mass units and no blasts or templates? Not a problem. Flamers? Sure. High S with AP... you catch my drift.

1) Dark Reapers: Usually considered too vulnerable for their high costs. This is true, thanks to T3 any standard fire will just kill them. But stick them in an Imperial Bunker and suddenly they have AV14 and you can place them right at the front line. Very durable and high threat.

2) Noise Marines: Very usable in my book since they got upgraded to 2 Blastmasters in a 10 man squad. Can shoot out of a Rhino each turn or can be deployed in building.

3) Necron Tomb Blades: Maybe not a good choice in 6th, but with Maelstrom missions they suddenly got very useful. Even a single one can just speed to the objective you have to grab this turn. Not as good as Eldar Jetbikes, but great tools for objective getting.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 koooaei wrote:

Not much stuff ignores both cover and 3+ armor.

See, that's the exact thing you're doing now - underrating csm

Exactly! This is what happens when people judge things in the vacuum of internet discussions. The real situation usually has a lot more parameters and the usefulness sometimes comes from the combination.

MarsNZ wrote:
Disagree with las-havocs beating out Oblits. If the enemy is low on armour or is a horde las-havocs are a huge waste of points, whereas the Oblits can DS and lay out some pain with heavy flamers, or twin-linked flamers. Deploy havocs poorly and they'll spend half the game getting LOS, again, Oblits can DS to where you need the firepower, then apply whatever type of firepower is required.

For me I find the Defiler hugely underrated. The internet says it's a snap to kill it but with 5++ 4HP and IWND that's simply false. It's also a threat in multiple phases of the game and can tangle with a variety of enemy models, MC, blobs, heavy armour. etc.

The Defiler is more expensive and worse in every way when compared to a Soulgrinder. That's why they're trash.

Ork mek gunz. How are people not banging on about how 18pts for a t7 gun with 5 wounds, 2 of which are 3+ and a st8 ap3 bs3 shot? With the ability to buy extra t7 wounds for only 3pts and rerolls to hit for 3pts? That's crazy good!

Let me put that into perspective - a tac marine with a flamer costs 1pt more. A BA assault marine coats the same. A Deathmark is 1pt more. A CSM with flamer is the same. 4 guardsmen are 2 pts more. 3 guardians are 6! Points more.

 Paradigm wrote:

3) Stormtroopers: The prevailing theory is that they are best used, if at all, as suicide melta delivery units, but especially now they can be taken in platoons and are cheaper, bringing them en masse to open a second front is actually very effective; it requires investment, but can be well worth it to bring three+ full squads.

Could you elaborate on this?

 SHUPPET wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:
Wow, I didn't know other people liked Tyranid Warriors. I've heard the internet thinks they're terrible. Yet, I always use them, and they never die.

The internet is a very small sample and often is just an appreciation of units at face value, i.e. they are ID'd by S8 and thats fairly common, they must be complete trash. Then looking at little deeper, in reality it is still just as durable as most the MC's you would otherwise spend the points on, and fulfills a necessary role of its own, and is better in hand to hand most the time as well

I'm going to have to disagree with you two....

My problem isn't how squishy warriors are, even though they really are fairly squishy Str 8 isn't rare and warriors aren't cheap enough to play the role of a distraction unit, it is they fact that they lack bite. They are effectively as durable as terminators against small arms fire but they lack punch when they finally hit things, unless you want to start paying even more for them. Even still the best you get is S4 Ap3 hits that cause insta-death, that isn't bad but if you do that they are 40+ points a piece and then your opponent would be really stupid NOT to guide some Str 8 their way.

If I wanted cheap and effective synapse I would just take Zoanthropes. If I wanted a better CC unit I would take Raveners, which are still not that great at it. If I wanted to take a distraction unit to draw fire from my MCs I would just take another MC.

Warriors just lack distinction and a true purpose in the army, they cost to many points, don't hit hard enough, and they just aren't quite durable enough.

Back to the OP;

1. The entire SoB army. People never see them so they have this idea that they are under powered and in need of help, they aren't. The codex isn't great but it isn't awful and it is a lot of fun to play!

2. Hive Crone. I hear constantly how scary this thing is and I just don't understand it, the scariest thing it does is distract you from the Hive Tyrant that is doing all the work.

3. I have to agree with the Defiler. He isn't great but there is potential there and it isn't nearly as useless as people make it out to be.

Obliterators have never disappointed me. I always deepstrike at least one unit of 2, and keep 2 units of 2 on the board, advancing and covering for my rhinos and faster units.

I see Havocs as way too static. If you don't have good LoS (which your opponent will certainly avoid) you waste shots and turns moving from the cover you obviously are hiding in.

It sucks too bc I have lots of Havoc models that I never use.

Las cannons, Missile launchers, autocannons, and an ADL. All shelved.

 vipoid wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:

3) Stormtroopers: The prevailing theory is that they are best used, if at all, as suicide melta delivery units, but especially now they can be taken in platoons and are cheaper, bringing them en masse to open a second front is actually very effective; it requires investment, but can be well worth it to bring three+ full squads.

Could you elaborate on this?

This from my IG tactica covers it in some detail:

Militarium Tempestus Scion Squad/Scion Command Squad:
Scions are incredibly versatile and therefore fit most lists. There are several ways to run Scions:
· Melta/flamercide: This setup uses a minimum-sized squad and takes 2 matching special weapons, making good use of deep-strike abilities. These are usually flamer for anti-infantry or melta for anti-tank, with plasma being more situational (but useful if you expect to face terminator equivalents or Monstrous Creatures), but the principle of application is the same. Use the deep-strike ability to land where the weapons will do the most damage (back armour of tanks for meltas, near light infantry for flamers) and focus on destroying or crippling the target in that turn. Anything achieved after this using this setup is really a bonus.
· Force concentration: At the exact opposite end of the scale to suicide Scions, this tactic uses multiple large squads of Scions to gain control of an area of the board and apply force to key targets. Using 2-3 squads in a platoon of Scions and deep-striking onto a weakly defended objective or point on the battlefield, and secure the area with close-range fire-power from the AP3 hotshot lasguns and special weapons. This will take attention away from your main force and potentially eliminate an enemy flank, or at worst force them to divert considerable force to dislodge your Scions. This setup pairs well with a Master of the Fleet to ensure you get the reserves on time, and a Scion Command Squad to issue orders and provide more Special Weapons
· Mechanised: Scions can also be run in Chimeras to work with a mech list, able to use both fire points on Chimeras or take a Taurox Prime for more firepower.

Good setups:
Meltacide: 5x Scions, 2x melta
Force concentration: 10 Scions, 2x plasma guns. Multiple Squads
Mechanised: 10 Scions, 2x plasma guns, Chimera/Taurox Prime

1) Kommandos. I love love love these guys as an ork player. Kit 'em out with burnas and a Klaw nob for a close range threat that's deadly as all get out. I bring a big unit with a KFF+Burna big Mek for an obnoxiously durable unit from hell that'll burn your squishy infantry, carve your tanks or pen your SM armor. My very favorite turn 2 distract-o-unit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
2) Bjorney the Dinosaur, BS6 Plasmacannon Freshmaker. He comes, he sees, he toasts. Can't understand the dislike of him now that he's so much cheaper.

3) Anrakyr the Traveler. He's got the exact same basic equipment id like to give my overlord, and for 30 points I get a free beefy immortal squad and the ability to do something during the assault phase. Even more trolltastic since the era of imperial knights.

 Paradigm wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:

3) Stormtroopers: The prevailing theory is that they are best used, if at all, as suicide melta delivery units, but especially now they can be taken in platoons and are cheaper, bringing them en masse to open a second front is actually very effective; it requires investment, but can be well worth it to bring three+ full squads.

Could you elaborate on this?

This from my IG tactica covers it in some detail:

Militarium Tempestus Scion Squad/Scion Command Squad:
Scions are incredibly versatile and therefore fit most lists. There are several ways to run Scions:
· Melta/flamercide: This setup uses a minimum-sized squad and takes 2 matching special weapons, making good use of deep-strike abilities. These are usually flamer for anti-infantry or melta for anti-tank, with plasma being more situational (but useful if you expect to face terminator equivalents or Monstrous Creatures), but the principle of application is the same. Use the deep-strike ability to land where the weapons will do the most damage (back armour of tanks for meltas, near light infantry for flamers) and focus on destroying or crippling the target in that turn. Anything achieved after this using this setup is really a bonus.
· Force concentration: At the exact opposite end of the scale to suicide Scions, this tactic uses multiple large squads of Scions to gain control of an area of the board and apply force to key targets. Using 2-3 squads in a platoon of Scions and deep-striking onto a weakly defended objective or point on the battlefield, and secure the area with close-range fire-power from the AP3 hotshot lasguns and special weapons. This will take attention away from your main force and potentially eliminate an enemy flank, or at worst force them to divert considerable force to dislodge your Scions. This setup pairs well with a Master of the Fleet to ensure you get the reserves on time, and a Scion Command Squad to issue orders and provide more Special Weapons
· Mechanised: Scions can also be run in Chimeras to work with a mech list, able to use both fire points on Chimeras or take a Taurox Prime for more firepower.

Good setups:
Meltacide: 5x Scions, 2x melta
Force concentration: 10 Scions, 2x plasma guns. Multiple Squads
Mechanised: 10 Scions, 2x plasma guns, Chimera/Taurox Prime

Thanks, that was a useful read.

Well, lets take a look. Under rated squads...

1. Black Templar Crusader Squad- I would say they are often over looked as a flexible combat unit that can fill multiple roles, outside of the OS LRC they can buy. They lost most of their hitting power with the loss of Rage...But besides that they can fill a min/max role. 5 man squad, las/plas with a razorback mounted with a TL LC sitting in the back field. You can fill out multiple units like this to really take advantage of it. I find them far more useful than tactical squads for that reason. 20 man black tide to 5 man squad, they have their uses and can really shine when in the right hands.

2. Assault Squad- Another marine unit I hardly see being used. They compete for slots against Storm Talon and bike squads which can be more useful at times. So I can see how this squad is overlooked as they might see better choices. When I take them, I take them in pairs. Two squads, 1 with plas and 1 with flamers. They can really put some stress when forcing a flank or even DS. No one wants melta bombs jumping around their weak flank or back side. For some extra killing power I load up my vet sgts with twin LCs. Of course the vow helps me out a lot in challenges, re-roll to hit and wound with LCs is a nice touch.

3. I can't think of anything off the top of my head. I almost want to add in the command squad...

For me its necrons,
1. pratorians with swords and pistols, costly yes but hit like a truck each one is jump infantry s6 gun t5 3 rending s5 on the charge oh and entropic plus fearless, highly under rated on the net.
2. Heavy destroyers, again costly but fast tough and have an assault las cannon, grat for getting behind things or just giving grief (dont forget pe everyghing).
3. Doomsday arc whats not to like about a large s9 ap1 blast with silly range. Combine it with a couple of arcs and what do the podded/alpha strikes try to kill with good postioning its leathal plus its a skimmer so if it can go ontop of ruins/battlements with out trouble (terrain dependant if it can fit).
I use all the above and in my area they are not liked at all.

I don't agree to the comment on Oblits, they are not a good general AT choice, but a great Swiss army knife. You will have a hard time finding a unit that when it comes from reserve has this much potential to fix your current problems. Mass units and no blasts or templates? Not a problem. Flamers? Sure. High S with AP... you catch my drift.

I think most people sit their oblits backfield and then complain when they die.

I started playing them, after three games of them shooting long range and dying....I tried moving them up the board.

T5, 2 wound, 2+ 5++ with all kinds of weapons are really snazzy to go upfield. Assault cannons wreck face, twin linked short range weapons, etc. You cut yourself short of half their weapons if you keep them in the backfield. And lets not forget they have power fists as well to go along with the craziness.

EDIT: forgot to add my units!

1. Priests are not better then commissars. Ld 7 tests aren't great, fearless and not going to ground is awful on most human units, and they have one wound. Commisars have options, and actual combat stats, and can GO TO GROUND. (IG players have a useful command to bring units out of the dirt after all.) Priests were much better when they could use the squads leadership.

2. Chapter Masters are not always better then captains. Sometimes you just need a CHEAP HQ that won't die to a stiff breeze.

3. The Psychic phase in general is god awful now. 2D6 rolls have a much smoother probability (therefore PREDICTABLE) curve then the single D6 junk we have now. Anyone telling you that 7D6 will reliably get you a warp charge 3 power off forgot about the application of statistics for single die rolls. Over THOUSANDS of rolls, yes this is true. In one game of 40k, not so much....

I haven't been much of a fan of Obliterators with the new codex at all. Not only did they lose their best DS mechanism (no-scatter Icons), but became majorly vulnerable to Leadership as well, on top of having to fire a different weapon every phase. The loss of Fearless and dump to Ld8 means one lascannon hit means they're running on the same Ld as a basic IG squad, and while Nurgle can help with that, it's become basically a mandatory price increase (which certainly doesn't help with fluff either) and the unit still runs fairly easily. Mine have largely been sitting on the shelf the last two years as a result. They're also just really expensive in every conceivable manner.

Their great advantage is that they can bring whatever type of firepower you need and put it where you need it if DS'ing, but they can't bring a huge volume of it, lost their useful DS mechanism, and once they're on, they can't be repositioned, and, more often than not, they end up being one-shot suicide units and they're just too expensive for that.

Meanwhile, if you sit them up in back somewhere to take advantage of range and line of sight and being on the board turn 1, the "can't fire the same weapon two turns in a row" thing becomes very crippling and they end up being fodder for AT guns.

I just haven't been hugely impressed with them, either using them or opposing them.

the_scotsman wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
2) Bjorney the Dinosaur, BS6 Plasmacannon Freshmaker. He comes, he sees, he toasts. Can't understand the dislike of him now that he's so much cheaper.

3) Anrakyr the Traveler. He's got the exact same basic equipment id like to give my overlord, and for 30 points I get a free beefy immortal squad and the ability to do something during the assault phase. Even more trolltastic since the era of imperial knights.

Bjorn is just terrible, he's a fun model to build and paint, but in game he is horrible. Yes he is bs/ws 6,but still just a 3 HP walker. A regular dreadnought can do the same thing in most cases and be cheaper, all he really has is the 5++, which is still iffy and can steal first turn on a 5+, which is still pretty meh.

For overrated:

1) Thunderwolves- yes they are a fun gimmick, but in reality in a edition where assault is not favored they are just a giant target and if you play in a meta with lots of str. 10 they are pretty much useless. Also without allies they only can get a 6+ FnP with either a lucky roll or a wolf priest that is better used elsewhere
2) Blood claws- yes you can take power armor in groups of 15, and yes they are finally cheaper than grey hunters. Though you still have to deal ws/bs 3, which means most other troop choices will hit them on 3s, while they still hit on 4s and their best gimmick is taking in a stormfang, but if that is shot down, well then say goodbye to a good portion of your army.
3) the new space wolves codex in general- with the new update many things were nerfed, which was necessary, such as rune priest null buble. But in doing that they lost all flavor and the only things that put them on same tier as regular marines. As it stands now anything they can do, a vanilla marine chapter can do better with more wargear, all they really have is the option to take drop pods in the fast attack slots.

oz of the north wrote:


1) Thunderwolves- yes they are a fun gimmick, but in reality in a edition where assault is not favored they are just a giant target and if you play in a meta with lots of str. 10 they are pretty much useless. Also without allies they only can get a 6+ FnP with either a lucky roll or a wolf priest that is better used elsewhere

They're a unit with a 12" move, T5 W2, with 6 S5 rending attacks in almost any first round of combat, for less than the price of 3 basic putz marines, with the ability to kit them out individually to suit any need. They're incredibly tough, incredibly fast, and incredibly killy, for dirt cheap. What's not to like?

Also, how many armies are routinely bringing absurd amounts of S10, especially ranged AP3 or better S10? That's been toned way down, with the removal of the Medusa to FW only, the Broadside got nerfed, Fire Prisms can't link fire to get S10 anymore, Manticore's have seen a substantial drop in utility and a price increase (and aren't AP3 anyway) etc.

Besides, at least in my experience, what I find kills them best is just massed S7 fire like autocannons, strips wounds from them as easily as it does from basic marines, forget S10.

Triarch Stalker w/ TL Heavy Gauss cannon.

If a twin linked high strength, low AP, ranged weapon hits on a BS 4, your whole army is twin-linked. In every single game I've played where this unit has been on the board, it has paid for its points twice over.