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Ок , Iove that faction- their models, their fluff and their playstyle. I am prone to excess and have collected over 100pts in few months.The thing is that my last two games were terrible and horribly one-sided. I just watched my models die without anything I could do. I felt like playing 40К all over again. Both were against very shooty Cygnar. Well, I am quite new to the game, but my opponents are not that experienced either. I have heard multiple times that Menoth are low-tier and from the 6 batreps that I've watched, they lost 5. Suddenly I realized that I am very touchy on the subject of power level, because the both times I invested in 40K armies, I got myself a lackluster faction ( Dark Angels and Tyranids). That was one of the reasons I left 40K and now I am feeling the same way in Warmachine. Ocam's razor points to the possibility that the problem is in me and I really hope that's the case. But the doubt remains and after those two games it's starting to run deep. And the thing is that our community is still small and my most regular opponent plays Cygnar. Sometimes I think that WMH is not for me, but before I even consider sending my collection to Ebay I really want to understand if my fears are true.

Sorry for the rant. I am not bashing the game. It's just am not seeing the supposed balance. This confuses me and drives me mad.

Just for the record ,In the last game(35pts) I played:

Harbinger of Menoth
* Devout
* Hierophant
Avatar of Menoth
Exemplar Bastions (Leader and 4 Grunts)
Exemplar Errants (Leader and 9 Grunts)
* Exemplar Errant Officer & Standard Bearer
Rhupert Carvolo, Piper of Ord
The Covenant of Menoth

Against

Captain Allister Caine +squire

Gunmages

Boomhowlers

Black 13

Old Rowdy

Alexia and the Risen

Allister managed to kill 7 of my errants alone. It was brutal.

Buy High Reclaimer, put wall of clouds in front of army every turn, profit? Seriously though I know Menoth has game against Cygnar but I'm not really sure what they should do since it's not a faction I know a lot about.

My best advice would be to not switch factions so quickly though. Warmachine is quite balanced, and apart from a few horrible caster specific match-ups (very few, I don't think this is one of them) it's all about strategy and terrain, and dice sometimes happen. I would say that if you don't like your list you can switch warcasters in the same faction and run something completely different. That's one of the things Warmachine does right.

In summery, I hate to say it, but it really sounds like you need to learn how to play better before you start worrying about factions. Warmachine has a pretty brutal learning curve. Some lists are good with less skill but cap out at a lower level, and others take a ton of skill and investment to even unlock to playable status. Harbinger is pretty nasty to learn since you have to juggle so many things.

Can someone who knows the factions better help me out on the Caine killing 7 errants thing? They should be tough with no knock-down from the Book and Rupert, and the ones that aren't tough get Martyred. It would take some crazy dice for that to happen right?

That list he has is definitely a very annoying one, and I would never EVER drop Harbinger against either version of Caine. He's basically made to kill squishy casters, and Harbinger is as squishy as they come.

I agree with DementedWombat. Drop High Reclaimer against him. He basically hard counters Cygnar shooting.


The idea is basically to pop out a line of 6 clouds each turn for your melee troops to hide behind. He will have no way to get past the clouds without entering them. At which point he is in charge range.

Every faction in this game is competitive(except maybe pigs) and Menoth is very strong as a faction. You need to completely ditch the 40k mindset, this game comes down to player skill. And Caine's playstyle doesn't actually lend to developing player skill. So when you drop the hard counter he's almost sure to have a fit.


Here is a 35 point High Reclaimer list I think would make a good starting point.

High Reclaimer
-Reckoner
-Heirophant

Avatar of Menoth
max Bastions
max Errants with UA
min Choir


Basically, you put 6 cloud AOEs out a turn at the very leading edge of his control area just touching. Then have all your troops march behind the clouds but not inside them.

This will create a massive 18" curved wall that he cannot see through. No, not even the True Sight on his gun mages. They ignore the concealment you get by being in the cloud, but they not ignore the fact that you cannot draw LOS through a cloud.

I've illustrated the effect below for you. Get 6 3 inch rings or cut out some 3" cardboard circles and practice placing them in his control area just so you have a feel for how much space you have to hide in.

 dementedwombat wrote:


In summery, I hate to say it, but it really sounds like you need to learn how to play better before you start worrying about factions.

Frankly, this was exactly what I wanted to hear. I am still bogged down into my experience with 40K.

Thanks for the advice guys! The High Reclaimer sounds like a good Idea. As for the Harbinger, I didn't know what my opponent would bring, and I wanted to field her, because I have just painted the model. Maybe I should get back to Kreoss1 for at least few games...

Harbinger is definitely a tough caster to start out with.

Once you have more experience definitely come back to her. She's deliciously awesome, especially in tier spamming 5 point Crusaders and a gak ton of infantry and Paladins. Martyrdom is the tricky thing to learn, strike a balance between martyring, healing, and camping basically.

If shooting is a problem the Choir can help out your jacks too on the approach (assuming no Reclaimer). Plus they kinda awesome (I just noted they're not in the list).

 TychoTerziev wrote:
Just for the record ,In the last game(35pts) I played:

Harbinger of Menoth
* Devout
* Hierophant
Avatar of Menoth
Exemplar Bastions (Leader and 4 Grunts)
Exemplar Errants (Leader and 9 Grunts)
* Exemplar Errant Officer & Standard Bearer
Rhupert Carvolo, Piper of Ord
The Covenant of Menoth

No choir? That would protect your jacks from shooting like crazy. Or help them deal damage like crazy, when you want it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TychoTerziev wrote:
Allister managed to kill 7 of my errants alone. It was brutal.

On feat turn? If he used his feat turn on your errants rather than your caster, it is all the better for you. That guy shoot like crazy on the feat turn. Also do not tell your friend about Reinholdt, that would give Cain one more extra free shot each turn .

Usually I play the Choir, but that time decided to try something different. The Errant massacre was done in two turns. Being a noob I was surprised by the amount of dakka put by a single model. I think he plays Reinholdt.

 Grey Templar wrote:

You need to completely ditch the 40k mindset, this game comes down to player skill.

I'm thinking about getting into WM/H. Already bought and half painted the Khaldor Menoth starter box. But.. You yourself just pulled a 40k argument.

Basically you said "It's skill, not army. Now buy different figures."
Translate that to 40k speak and it becomes "It's skill, not army. Now buy Wave Serpents."

So this is basically 40k Kill Teams(small game size), with no really good lore or hundreds of fun books?

I see how that could be confusing, I'll elaborate.

Its true that, almost, everything is competitive. Not everything works well together or against everything.

This game is designed around competitive events where you have 2 or most lists to play at the event. List composition matters in that you need to build a list that has good internal synergy and everything plays off of each other.

Just about every single model or unit can be included in a competitive list build. But not everything is compatible together. Chocolate is good. Cheeseburger is good. Chocolate cheeseburger is not good.


Player skill will usually trump list composition because no list plays itself like some other games do. You still need to know what you are doing, there are some combos which actively hinder each other(commonly called Skornergy: basically anti-synergy). But that doesn't mean you can just toss whatever into a list and call it good. You need to play the entire game, and the game starts when you build your list.

Especially for newbies, it can be a rough ride to begin with. A good rule of thumb is that you WILL lose your first 20-30 games. The goal of recommending certain models is to give newbies a good starting point. Start them with the better units and more tried and true tactics to soften the hammer blow that the learning curve is going to hit them with. After they've gotten comfortable, they can start exploring some of the more difficult to make work tactics and synergies. I'd also hate for a newbie to waste money on more corner case units that are only viable in a list which is difficult to get to work correctly.

Its kinda like Super Smash Brothers. Certain characters are easier to use, but some of the harder to use characters are just as effective in the right hands. Warmachine is very much like that. Everything is viable, but some models take a very high skill level to get the most out of them, at which point they're just as competitive but only in the right hands.


Finally, while such models and units are very rare, there are some things which are flat out bad units with poor rules that nobody should purchase unless you are a completionist, want to take a "bad" unit for a spin, or just want to use some cool but neglected models. Things like the Cleanser UA, Kossite Woodsmen, or Zerkova.


TLR

You still need to build a list which works together. Nothing in this game operates in a vacuum. Your army needs to be a fluid machine AND you need to know how to operate it. Both need to come together.


edit: as for no good lore, you can buy all the old Mk1 books for super cheap, and all the current books for a little more, on the PP digital app. The IKRPG rulebook also has a TON of amazing fluff.

Warmachine originally started as a DnD world and it morphed into its own world. Its got some super in-depth fluff and there is a growing number of novels which are remarkably well written.

Gotcha. Pikachu hates Bulbasaur and insta-gibs Squirtle.

As a new player, and aimed most likely at Menoth, can you tell me what Harbinger's good about? This thread kinda bashes him, but I understand the opponent kind of brought his anathema.

Harbinger is a lady my good man. The Scrutators won't take kindly to a mistake like that, unless you offer yourself to the wrack willingly


Harbinger is a big denial caster. Her 5 main strengths are Martyrdom, Focus 10, Awe, Purification, and her feat "Godhead".

Martyrdom: She takes D3 damage for a friendly model in control area to not die. This is incredibly strong, especially since placement is so key in this game. It can be a good way of preventing your opponent from doing something he needs to do. Like clear out the infantry which are blocking his charge lane into one of your jacks. You can just go "Lawl nope!" and prevent him from killing that guy. Then you just heal all the damage you took from martyrdom up on your next turn by using focus and/or a Heirophant. Very strong in scenario play. You can basically make it so your opponent will NOT score unless you let him.

Focus 10: She can heal herself a bunch each turn if she was martyring heavily. And/or she can run a bunch of warjacks and cast a bunch of spells.

Awe: This is effectively +2 defense against living models within 10" of her. Combine it with the Reckoner's ashen veil or the general high defense of basic infantry(13) and it can become very annoying. Hordes in particular don't like it when their beasts need 8s to hit a heavy jack.

Purification: this spell is very strong at the worst of times. Combine it with a whopping 20" control area and its downright unfair. "You know all those spells you cast and really want to upkeep? You're gonna have to recast them ALL! And all those defensive Animi like Spiny Growth and Tenacity? Gone!"

Godhead: This is effective denial feat against an enemy that's very infantry heavy. Most single wound models will auto-die to a pow14 hit in the face. And on turn 1, harbinger can pop feat and fail charge. That means she can effectively put a do not enter zone for enemy infantry 36" from your own board edge. That means any model directly across from her can just barely leave their deployment zone. The way you properly resolve the feat is as follows. Mark(don't measure) where the enemy model originally started its move(do this for each enemy model/unit) and once its done moving(or the unit is done moving) you then measure to see if they're effected by the feat. Your opponent cannot make you hold out your control area so he doesn't enter it. You're free to be so kind, but why would you do that?


Her spell list is also quite nice.

Already discussed purification.

Cataclysm: her signature spell. You'll usually only cast it late game or if you've charged the enemy warcaster for some delicious auto-hitting pow20 action. She can cast it up to 3 times if you have a Heirophant and Wracks. Or twice with boosted damage. The other corner-case where its useful is if there is a stealthed model within 10"(heirophant increase the range) that you need to kill. Auto-hit trumps auto-miss so the spell basically ignores stealth, and most stealth models will die to a boosted pow10

Guided Hand: Its relatively cheap, so she can hand it out to multiple models/units. If you really need your jack's charge attack to hit you can put guided hand on it. Best value is on a unit of infantry since they all get the bonus on their first attack, and usually only have one attack anyway.

Fear of God: You'll rarely get this off, and its the only spell which makes sense to use an arc node for, but on the right target it can be crippling. Useful for shutting down those pesky bile thralls as it stops them from Purging(and bile thralls without purge are useless). Its also useful for preventing a unit from charging. The biggest problem is you'll almost never get it onto a target till its no longer as useful unless you splurge for an Arc Node(and only one spell doesn't make a ton of sense)

Crusaders Call: Another awesome spell. An extra 2" of threat on a charge, for everybody in her gigantic control area. Self-explanatory. Makes slow menoth jacks have a decent charge threat. And it's appreciated by infantry too.


Ultimately, she's one of the top 5 menoth warcasters. Very strong in scenario play due to a denial feat and martyrdom.

Her theme force is the best way to run her IMO. You get very cheap heavy warjacks(cheaper than some faction's light warjacks) that she speeds up on the charge, a bunch of infantry and super solos she can martyr, and walls for her to hide behind.


Some inspirational artwork. This is her talking to Servath Reznik. High Executioner, Head of Public Relations for the Hierarch, and the Wrath of Ages.

Dead serious about him being head of public relations. Its in the army book.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Harbinger is a lady my good man. The Scrutators won't take kindly to a mistake like that, unless you offer yourself to the wrack willingly


Harbinger is a big denial caster. Her 5 main strengths are Martyrdom, Focus 10, Awe, Purification, and her feat "Godhead".

Martyrdom: She takes D3 damage for a friendly model in control area to not die. This is incredibly strong, especially since placement is so key in this game. It can be a good way of preventing your opponent from doing something he needs to do. Like clear out the infantry which are blocking his charge lane into one of your jacks. You can just go "Lawl nope!" and prevent him from killing that guy. Then you just heal all the damage you took from martyrdom up on your next turn by using focus and/or a Heirophant. Very strong in scenario play. You can basically make it so your opponent will NOT score unless you let him.

Focus 10: She can heal herself a bunch each turn if she was martyring heavily. And/or she can run a bunch of warjacks and cast a bunch of spells.

Awe: This is effectively +2 defense against living models within 10" of her. Combine it with the Reckoner's ashen veil or the general high defense of basic infantry(13) and it can become very annoying. Hordes in particular don't like it when their beasts need 8s to hit a heavy jack.

Purification: this spell is very strong at the worst of times. Combine it with a whopping 20" control area and its downright unfair. "You know all those spells you cast and really want to upkeep? You're gonna have to recast them ALL! And all those defensive Animi like Spiny Growth and Tenacity? Gone!"

Godhead: This is effective denial feat against an enemy that's very infantry heavy. Most single wound models will auto-die to a pow14 hit in the face. And on turn 1, harbinger can pop feat and fail charge. That means she can effectively put a do not enter zone for enemy infantry 36" from your own board edge. That means any model directly across from her can just barely leave their deployment zone. The way you properly resolve the feat is as follows. Mark(don't measure) where the enemy model originally started its move(do this for each enemy model/unit) and once its done moving(or the unit is done moving) you then measure to see if they're effected by the feat. Your opponent cannot make you hold out your control area so he doesn't enter it. You're free to be so kind, but why would you do that?


Her spell list is also quite nice.

Already discussed purification.

Cataclysm: her signature spell. You'll usually only cast it late game or if you've charged the enemy warcaster for some delicious auto-hitting pow20 action. She can cast it up to 3 times if you have a Heirophant and Wracks. Or twice with boosted damage. The other corner-case where its useful is if there is a stealthed model within 10"(heirophant increase the range) that you need to kill. Auto-hit trumps auto-miss so the spell basically ignores stealth, and most stealth models will die to a boosted pow10

Guided Hand: Its relatively cheap, so she can hand it out to multiple models/units. If you really need your jack's charge attack to hit you can put guided hand on it. Best value is on a unit of infantry since they all get the bonus on their first attack, and usually only have one attack anyway.

Fear of God: You'll rarely get this off, and its the only spell which makes sense to use an arc node for, but on the right target it can be crippling. Useful for shutting down those pesky bile thralls as it stops them from Purging(and bile thralls without purge are useless). Its also useful for preventing a unit from charging. The biggest problem is you'll almost never get it onto a target till its no longer as useful unless you splurge for an Arc Node(and only one spell doesn't make a ton of sense)

Crusaders Call: Another awesome spell. An extra 2" of threat on a charge, for everybody in her gigantic control area. Self-explanatory. Makes slow menoth jacks have a decent charge threat. And it's appreciated by infantry too.


Ultimately, she's one of the top 5 menoth warcasters. Very strong in scenario play due to a denial feat and martyrdom.

Her theme force is the best way to run her IMO. You get very cheap heavy warjacks(cheaper than some faction's light warjacks) that she speeds up on the charge, a bunch of infantry and super solos she can martyr, and walls for her to hide behind.


Some inspirational artwork. This is her talking to Servath Reznik. High Executioner, Head of Public Relations for the Hierarch, and the Wrath of Ages.

Dead serious about him being head of public relations. Its in the army book.

Not going to lie. She sounds situationally brutal and annoying to the opponent.

Being the holy vessel of god will do that.

 Pyeatt wrote:
I'm thinking about getting into WM/H. Already bought and half painted the Khaldor Menoth starter box. But.. You yourself just pulled a 40k argument.

Basically you said "It's skill, not army. Now buy different figures."
Translate that to 40k speak and it becomes "It's skill, not army. Now buy Wave Serpents."

So this is basically 40k Kill Teams(small game size), with no really good lore or hundreds of fun books?

In 40k when they say "skill matters" they mean buy wave serpents. So apparently the skill at pulling out your credit card.

In WM/H when we say "skill matters" we mean your actual skill and experience in the game. Part of which is list building and knowing which units, casters, etc work well together AND how to play them to maximum potential.

 Mordekiem wrote:


In 40k when they say "skill matters" they mean buy wave serpents. So apparently the skill at pulling out your credit card.

In WM/H when we say "skill matters" we mean your actual skill and experience in the game. Part of which is list building and knowing which units, casters, etc work well together AND how to play them to maximum potential.

Haha we've evolved past that part of the conversation, man. Read a bit farther. People on this thread initially made it sound like "This unit is gimp, buy this one instead."
I already got Grey Templar to explain "No this unit is awesome, just not against that one guy."

Isn't Martyrdom within command range? I mean you can do it within 10 inches not 20? Or am I missing something?

Yeah, Martyrdom is command range, not control.

At OP, it looks like you just had a bad match up. It happens. I've found Warmahordes list making to be incredibly similar to MtG deck building, with everything having to be completely considered and needing an answer to everything. Bit of a pain to learn, but there you have it.

The important thing is to learn from it. It looks like your army either lacks shooting, or a way to deliver your troops, like the choir or a fast skirmish unit to tie up his shooting.One of my first games was Kaelyssa, mage hunters and 2 griffons against dwarves. I was slaughtered , but it taught me it's important to have something with good P+S in my list.

Like the above posters said, warmahordes has a pretty brutal learning curve.

 Pyeatt wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

You need to completely ditch the 40k mindset, this game comes down to player skill.

I'm thinking about getting into WM/H. Already bought and half painted the Khaldor Menoth starter box. But.. You yourself just pulled a 40k argument.

Basically you said "It's skill, not army. Now buy different figures."
Translate that to 40k speak and it becomes "It's skill, not army. Now buy Wave Serpents."

So this is basically 40k Kill Teams(small game size), with no really good lore or hundreds of fun books?

You have to actually play the game to see the difference. It's nothing like Kill Team and there is a lot of very well written lore behind it. I'm serious, check it out. The RPG's are fantastic and a wealth of knowledge about the world. There are also novels. Check out "Into the Storm" by Larry Correia, New York Times best seller.

True story: He frequents the PP forums because Larry loves the games. When the head of PP saw Larry's name pop up (because he goes on the forums) he said "Wait, is that Larry Correia, the guy that wrote Monster Hunter International? And he plays Warmachine?" So he gives Larry a call and asks if he'd write something. Larry jumped at the chance because he's very passionate about the game. (check out his FB page, its filled with miniatures.) When the head of PP read the story, he said it wasn't just great for a PP story, but it was a great novel. Period.

To be honest, there are in fact a lot of similarities between "40k player skills" and "Warmachine/Horde player skills"...mostly because the basics are the same.

The main difference is that Warmachine/Horde rules are less random and better thought/written. Most of the time, it is the scenario that makes the list.

Yes, it is thought for competition, clearly...and in that, you can see a lot of "bad things" somewhat familiar in the 40k experience. It's all about the players, really. Just that you don't have to argue with your opponent about how the rule of that thing should be played.

....

Well, it still happens, 'cause that doesn't mean people learn how to read. But at least, you don't need a FAQ as long as your arm to have the question answered.

Two games are a bit short before deciding if Menoth is for you or not. Don't give up, try other scenarios as well. You don't have to play another caster if you don't want to...just find the tactics/list that suit you.

Same goes for 40k, actually...

 Sarouan wrote:
To be honest, there are in fact a lot of similarities between "40k player skills" and "Warmachine/Horde player skills"...mostly because the basics are the same.

And what would those similarities be?

When I first learned to play warmachine; a friend had lent me his cygnar army against his army of robots? (Some cult I think)

He taught me the basics and we played a small game, even though I lost, it was great!

So I went looked online for all the information that I could find out about it. I learned that Hordes better suited my style so I went with a skorne army.

Fast forward several games later, I love the game, but I had problems with the caster I had, so I switched over to a new caster and yielded better results. To me, Its about 80% skill 10% placement 10% luck.

I've been playing my army with the same caster for a while now in order to learn all the ins and outs of my list and caster before I change it up. I still lose a lot, but thankfully there are a lot of new players as well and we slap fight each other.

But I expect to keep losing to more experienced players for a while yet. It takes a while to get get at this game.

PhantomViper wrote:

 Sarouan wrote:
To be honest, there are in fact a lot of similarities between "40k player skills" and "Warmachine/Horde player skills"...mostly because the basics are the same.

And what would those similarities be?

Loosely...

Rolling dice, measuring range (with a tape measure and by guessing) and reading comprehension.

And the most basic concept is still the same. You roll dice and see if you hit based on the skills of the models involved. Then you usually roll more dice to see what happens when you hit.

And everything in your army is based on little models that sit on a table.

 Mordekiem wrote:

And the most basic concept is still the same. You roll dice and see if you hit based on the skills of the models involved. Then you usually roll more dice to see what happens when you hit.

Here is the first deviation. Yes you do roll dice to see if you hit but your model's skill is only half the picture. If I asked you 'What does a Space Marine need to shoot that...' I don't even need to finish the sentence. In all but a handful of cases the answer is 3+. If I ask you what a Long Gunner needs to hit you can't even begin to give me an answer without knowing what the targets DEF is and where. And that's just the innate rules like cover, concealment, elevation, engaged, stationary or knocked down. That's before you bring in abilities, spells or feats and we're still on the to hit roll. Fundamentally the same yes, but so is driving to the shop for cat food and a high speed pursuit- it's all just a combination of accelerator/brake and turning the wheel.

 Mordekiem wrote:
And everything in your army is based on little models that sit on a table.

Not everything. The decision to use Enliven, countercharge, transfer, Admonition, Self sacrifice, martyrdom and a bunch of other things may come from the models on the table but they're all on YOU the player to use properly. When (and in some cases how) to feat is on you. Focus allocation is on you. Hell the order of activation is probably one of the most crucial skills and again, all on you. Doing these things right are all on the player and have little if anything to do with luck. These things separate the good players from the great and they're why you can't just hand someone a list. There is too much for the player to do.

So yeah, loosely they're the same but one has far more depth to let a player really show their worth above and beyond the army they're running.

Something that was touched on that I wanted to highlight, is one of menoths more interesting idiosyncrasies; you can essentially play the exact same list just swapping out Harby and the High Reclaimer, and suddenly go from a bad match up to a good one. Maybe Drop the Heirophant and add in 3 points with of filler, and you've got essentially the same list, but now instead of getting shot off the table turn 2 you tie him down in melee and whittle him down and win on attrition.

I've just ordered the High Reclaimer Meanwhile, I am beginning to feel the steepness of the learning curve. Probably I was in denial, mostly because my getting into Dropzone Commander and Malifaux 2nd edition was much smoother. Why shouldn't WMH be the same way ? Before starting this thread I was about to sell my stuff and be done with Warmachine, but after your great replies I plan to get even more menites, somewhere in the future. Thanks for dispelling my doubts!

 Mordekiem wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:

 Sarouan wrote:
To be honest, there are in fact a lot of similarities between "40k player skills" and "Warmachine/Horde player skills"...mostly because the basics are the same.

And what would those similarities be?

Loosely...

Rolling dice, measuring range (with a tape measure and by guessing) and reading comprehension.

And the most basic concept is still the same. You roll dice and see if you hit based on the skills of the models involved. Then you usually roll more dice to see what happens when you hit.

And everything in your army is based on little models that sit on a table.

I see what you did there!

Just to clarify some things: Menoth is not low-tier. Not at all.

As a beginner I would strongly argument against not taking the Choir. Although some people (usually your opponents) will see them as some sort of a crutch, it really is what makes Menoth tick. I can´t count the times where I was raging furiously about how good they are and how much I want them in my Khador!

On the other hand Caine (in both versions) is some sort of Noob Stomper. Not to say he ain´t great against good players but if you are still learning positioning and how to protect your caster (especially medium based ones like Harby) he is incredibly strong. You might want to ask you buddys to won it down a little against a beginner.

The other options are not very pleasant and are min-maxed like there is no tomorrow. I guess that I have to suck it up and accept the trial by fire. Playing against perfected tourney lists, when you try to learn the game is a bit distracting, but I think I can get something out of it in the long run.